Grand Opening

Thanks for sharing. Great to hear that there was a good turnout. I couldn't make it today but I'll be there on Monday.

John

Here are a couple of images from today's Grand Opening

The doors are now open for business:

Lines of customers checking out:

Looks like they did a pretty good job setting up my N-scale Tehachapi Loop layout and getting the trains running:

(There is a hidden 2-track helix behind the backdrop that will allow 2 trains to run in opposing directions, with meets at Walong Siding).

Cheers,

Ed

Thanks for the

update and pictures.  Sounds like a good turn out today.  I wish them well and look forward to seeing it in person someday.

Thanks

Not living in CO, I am interested in possible internet orders. Will they be setting up a online catalog?

Jack

Yes, the old Caboose Hobbies

Yes, the old Caboose Hobbies had an website that listed in-stock items and one could order; that's the only way I bought anything from the old CH over the years since never lived nearby.  A couple of my brass D&RGW cabooses were from CH and I also sold a brass CZ train set on consignment at CH.  Of course the new store will need to get an online presence to extend reach as part of a long term successful business strategy.

I noticed on TrainOrders, a member who is very negative about the future of the hobby had this to say when a topic was started announcing the opening of The Caboose:

streamliner: "To quote the old movie "Wall Street:"  Enjoy it while it lasts, 'cause it never does."

For a hobby that's dying ...

Nay Sayers

So much BS I think. We have a train show coming up in 2 weeks and I suspect that I will be doing a fair bit of kid dodging while looking for a good bargain. Always 2 good signs!!

Still like to know if an internet sales site will be going up for Caboose.

Jack

It is a member who's handle

It is a member who's handle is streamliner and IIRC, a former hobby shop owner.  He never seems to lose a chance to promote a "hobby is dying" argument.  My subscription lapsed so I can't post there but usually I try to provide an opposing view.  I realize some folks with a background in the industry have for one or another reason had a bad time of it, but it's sad they they feel a need to promote a negative view as if it is a mission.

From where I stand, certainly there seems to be a lot of great new products on the market not to mention some fairly new excellent companies into HO like Moloco, ScaleTrains, Wheels of Time and Trainworx who are adding to the excellent products from Athearn, Intermountain, ExactRail and Tangent, just to name a few.

Hopefully once things settle in at The Caboose, they will start working on an online store, which is a critical element to extend reach beyond the area they are geographically located.

Caboose internet site: yes

Hobbyshops are dying, not the hobby

Brick and mortar shops are what's dying, not buying in general. Craig's list and eBay have made it possible to buy, sell and swap like never before. Then there's the number four website on the planet: Amazon. All these internet dynamics are changing niche brick and mortar retailing forever.

Take Radio Shack, for example. They're dying. If this is your only bell weather then retail electronics and do it yourself electronics is dying.

That's what's wrong with just looking at the local hobby shop dying and saying the hobby is dying. You're ignoring a huge set of retail outlets now on the internet. Model railroad goods on eBay alone rivals the entire hobby retail business online, so if you include eBay in your stats, the model train "retail" business is twice as large from a buyer perspective.

And then there's Shapeways with tens of thousands of model railroad-related miniatures for sale now. Ya gotta look at the whole picture! The hobby is flourishing if you do that.  

If you only look at the classic pre internet ways of doing the hobby, then yes, the hobby is dying off quickly.

Video of the checkout line at Caboose

https://www.facebook.com/groups/modelersguild/10155165265255995/?ref=notif&notif_t=like&notif_id=1488063115564583

I think the biggest problem

I think the biggest problem and reason why there are so many naysayers is that there isn't really a way to measure how many modelers there are. The old standby that was used for decades was to look at how many subscribers Model Railroader had. I think MRH is the closest we have to that standard, and ironically that probably skews a bit on the lower end for age. 

A variation I hear is that there aren't any younger modelers. That's not what we're seeing from the customers that we see, although that's only a small base of our customers as well. So for those that are looking at the number of hobby stores, the number of print magazines or subscribers, attendance at train shows, etc. you just won't get an accurate sense of the health of the hobby.

Things are definitely changing, and many of those traditional ways of doing business are struggling. On the other hand, there are a couple of local hobby (really model train) shops in my area, and business has been growing over the last few years for them. There are fewer of them, but they are also finding ways to keep doing business. All of the ones that have closed in the area have closed due to attrition - retirements or the owner passing away. 

Another reason I've heard as "evidence" is that there aren't that many models being released. The reality is, there are a lot of models being released, by new and old companies, including a number of new resin kit manufacturers. But the era of potential modeling expands every year. Scale Trains and Exact Rail, for example, focus on an eras later than mine. So I don't need them. That doesn't mean models aren't being manufactured, just that they are spread out among more and more year's worth of prototype. A given manufacturer has only so many projects each year. 

Perhaps it's just me being an optimist, but I see a a hobby in transition, but as far as I can tell continues to grow.

Randy

Thanks Joe

I'll be watching for their ad.

Jack

Age range

If the crowd at Caboose on Saturday was any indication, the hobby isn't going anywhere. As I mentioned before, the store staff looked to run almost 50/50 between, let's say over 50 and under 40. And the crowd had all age ranges represented, with high concentrations around the opposite ends of the spectrum: retirees and families with young children. 

I believe that there have been previous editorials stating that the "youth" in the hobby may not be the teenagers and early 20's (although I did see a fair number of those at the event), but the late 20's to late 30's demographic. Maybe I'm biased because I fall within that age range (38 in March), but I feel that may be both more accurate and more hopeful. Just my two cents, and it's worth what you payed for it.

Mike in CO

I do not know for sure if the

I do not know for sure if the hobby is dying yet but I am pretty dammn sure that it is not in a healthy state and NOT growing.  Just look at the attendance numbers at the Country's largest train show in West Springfield over the past 5 years.  The numbers have gone from upwards of 25,000 but each year we have had a decrease in numbers.  This past show there were only 18,500 in attendance.  

Manufacturers are ensuring to push people out of the hobby with their continual increase in model pricing with each release.  Bachmann has MSRPs at $329 for their garbage engines and dummies on Ebay actually have them listed fr $329 exactly!!  Exactrail released the 64' Trinity Reefer at $32.99 a few years ago and now they are $44.99.  An increase that is simply NOT justified but they have crunched the numbers and figured that the modelers would pay that amount so that is why they are $44.99.  Athearn RTR engines are $119 & 129 when just a few years ago they were in the $89 range for the RTR line.  

Track - Shoot, don't get me started on the track prices!  At $5+ for a piece of Atlas Flex track that was only $2.25 7-8 years ago is ridiculous!!  The increase to actual value is crazy!  It has risen more than 200% in a short period of time.  I swear to you that track is like gold and the prices only go up but at a right that surpasses gold's value.

There are so may more examples of the Inflation of prices at a enormous rate over the past 5 years.  I am sure many more people can post dozens more examples to add to this. 

I am certainly not happy with the current state of this hobby and I find that it is getting harder and harder to bring the younger generations into an overpriced, oversaturated, grumpy mans hobby.  Again, the hobby may not be "dying" yet but it is certainly not healthy and not growing. 

Inflation killing the hobby?

In 1955, my father bought our house for $14,000.  Today, that house is valued at nearly $200,000!  In 1971, I bought a new Chevrolet pickup for 2,800 out the door!  Taxes, registration and all!  You priced a new pickup today?  In 1965 I was earning $650 a month, paying 29 cents a gallon for gasoline. and less than a dollar a pound for burger.  Today I earn more than twice that amount in a week!  Pay a little over 2 bucks for gas, and burger is around 4 bucks.  All this means it inflated a little less than 10 times.

In the early eighties, I bought an Atlas RS3 for, I believe around $65.  Today, it's about $200.  Not is certainly not ten times inflation!  I think the manufacturers are doing an excellent job at holding prices!

I think - (yeah, I know about opinions) - todays younger society is much less inclined to physically go to events such as trade shows when they can see all there is to see on their smart phones.  I think that's where the decrease in attendance lays.

Of course, I could be wrong.  I thought I was once, but I wasn't. 

Bart Hollis

Model railroading not a cheap hobby but ....

This discussions came up on on the MR forum so often that the moderators installed a separate thread for it. The thread was closed after around 600 posts.

The models get more expensive no question but there are reasons. Average wages have risen 80 per cent in China from 2010 to 2016. In the USA it were 16% in the same time frame.

And if you go even farther back as Bart did and take inflation and wages into account we have to work less hours for much better models.

As all this is based on average wages there are people who feel price increases more heavily but if one goes into the details one finds reasons.
Regards, Volker

OMG

Hard to navigate around all of these soap boxes to post a congratulatory note to the Caboose gang. Thank you for filling the hobby shop void here in Colorado. Will be in as soon as possible and look forward your website as well. 

I totally agree with you Joe.

New shop - Thanks to everyone

Thanks to the owners and employees who created this great new shop in Lakewood.

The parking lot was pretty full at 5pm last night.

It was great to be able to browse actual physical shelves and pick up the small things you don't even think you need until you see them. Here's hoping Caboose has a long and successful run.

John
 

In 1955, my father bought our

Houses are not a very good metric for inflation to compare to model trains.  My dad was a real estate agent for many years and even without that, common sense dictates that home values are literally "all over the map".  You can't use what your house cost in 1955 vs. today because the location has a HUGE impact on value - a home could cost 10x in some cities vs. what it would cost in some rural area's in some states.  Many things have increased in cost at different rates and would vary wildly when adjusted for inflation.  Heck, a Taco Bell burrito still only costs a bit over dollar and has only gone up maybe 4 or 5 times it's original price in the late 1960's when my Uncle opened his Taco Bell in Van Nuys California.

Eh?  You are not comparing apples to apples with your Atlas RS3, you compared a non-sound 1980's Atlas RS3 to a sound equipped modern Atlas RS3.  Adding sound basically doubles the price!  I just checked Lombard Hobbies non-sound price and it's less than half the $200 price you quoted and shows at $94.99 (as of Feb 2017).  I bought an Atlas yellow box RS3 for around $60 with it's KATO drive at the end of the 1980's, so heck, only about $35 dollars more today for the non-sound Atlas RS3 at discount price.

My point is, many examples some throw out to make a point aren't really a good metric when compared to the model train hobby, or even within the hobby some things haven't gone up all that much while others have gone up a lot.  And hey, look at the trains we can buy today vs. 30 years ago.  Many current offerings are MUCH closer in fidelity to prototype diesels, steam engines, passenger cars and freight cars, whereas, models offered in the 1970 and 1980's, for example, were often quite generic and the majority of passenger and freight cars were foobies.  Now you can buy models that closely match prototype photo's from Athearn Genesis, Intermountain, ExactRail, and especially Moloco and Tangent - and Wheels of Time. etc.

I think that may be part of the young vs. old way of doing business.  Young tend to do more things online - buy, pay bills, and much more, where as old school still writes checks to pay bills, go into brick and mortar stores etc.

It is true many say that it's the older men who spend the most and blame the decline in the hobby by saying young customers are not getting into the hobby to replace them.  That may or may not be true.  I have heard umpteen stories of guys who started out interested in trains as a youth, but dating and girls, college, career and sowing wild oats put trains on hold until they settled down and had a steady income and maybe a place to work on trains with and then the hobby resurged for them again.  That period away from trains would would explain a lot of why there is a gap in younger folks in the hobby.

And, of course, for the population in general, online shopping is taking over from B&M stores in a major way, so it's not only B&M hobby shops that have to adapt to online sales or die, but department stores and many other product genre's.  The old fashioned shopping mall is now on the endangered list and unless they can re-invent themselves, we will se them disappearing across the nation.  It's a time saver and easy to shop online with the click of a mouse.

This all boils down to why this new hobby ship, The Caboose, will need to make it a priority (once they get the shop going) to get an strong online presence like MB Klien and others like it to have a long term success model and hopefully prove Mr. Streamliner over at TrainOrders wrong.  Hopefully they will not be like Lombards and limit to UPS expensive shipping and use the US Postal Service, which is much more economical.

@Jim

Your points are well taken.  Yeah, I could nit-pick a couple of things, but it wouldn't add to the discussion.  I do admit to doing more and more online shopping because, as much as I like to support local merchants, they, and I don't necessarily mean hobby shops, seem to want to be an online agent for us.  When I need something, I'll go to my local store and ask if they have it in stock.  Often I get, "No, but I can order it for you", my answer is no, I can also order it at around 60% of the cost.  So, B&M stores really need to stock products again, like they used to.

Bart

Caboose???

I live in eastern Kansas, but my wife and I have family in the Denver area.  

Do I need to plan a trip to Colorado this summer?

Jim

Yes. They had a bunch of KCS stuff when I was there.