BIG!

Number one item for your 'new' direction, is SIZE!  You want modern equipment which means LARGE radius curves and LARGE turnouts.  Many of the well known 3 rail manufacturers also produce limited runs of 2 rail items as well.  I have Williams Cab Forward, tons of MTH diesels, etc.  3 rail to 2 rail conversion is possible although it is not always cost effective.  Rolling stock is another issue, I have converted tons of 3 rail box cars, passenger cars, etc by just swapping out the wheel sets.  As you do your research on availability also look at the specs.  What is the minimum radius?  Have fun.  Russ

Modern O-scale

... will be VERY big.  I am curious as to why HO does not appeal to you?  

There's a decent amount of modern O scale out there

but of course it's a pretty small market so the choices are fewer than HO or N. Plus there are some compromises to fine details and drive-trains because they have to work for the 3 rail market as well to create enough demand. Atlas offers some scale modern power and cars for 2 rail. MTH (have 2-rail versions of some locos) and Lionel (mainly 3-rail chassis but some good scale bodies) as well but tend to have more compromises. Niche offerings from Sunset 3rd Rail in plastic and some brass are coming along with excellent 2 rail versions. There's still some nice used Overland and other brass out there on ebay etc.

Here are a few places to look:

http://oscaleresource.com/

http://www.oscaledirectory.com/2%20rail%20locomotives.html

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/forum/2-rail-scale-trains

http://oscalemag.com/wordpress/ost-forums/ost-2-rail-forums-group2/o-standard-gauge-forum3/

There's a Yahoo! buy and sell group for 2-rail as well: https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/OSCALEYARDSALE/info

I hope you will give O scale a try.  

HTH

Not really sure why HO does

Not really sure why HO does not appeal to me. I think it is more the size of it. Having worked in N scale for the last 15 years or so I want to work in something large. I the main reason I like O is I was introduced to scale modeling with a video of Laurel Joiner's Great Southern when I was 13 or so and the scale has always had a place in my heart. I watched that video so much I wore out the tape in the first year that I had it. I told myself that if I ever had the space I wanted to create something similar to what he did. I have some 1:29th scale equipment that I run outside but that's way to big for what I want to do. 

Modeling in O scale.

  I started in HO then modeled in O scale for many years, trying N scale along the way and finally ending up modeling in S scale( and TT scale for a small second layout). The problems I found with O scale is the equipment and the scenery take up too much space if one wants to build scenes with realistic compression.Even S is pretty big for the average size room if one wants to model a busy area, I get around it by modeling a shortline with limited track and scenery. O scale even takes up a lot of space when stored in the box or when mailed( size plus weight determines postage costs)so there is more wastage of money that could be applied to a layout. It's kinda like owing a Hummer when a Rav4 might suit one better I guess. If I ever return to modeling in O it would be a P48 old time layout using short cars and small engines in a sparse frontier type setting, that would minimize the 1/4 inch scale disadvantages.   On a positive note there's plenty of O equipment available at reasonable prices(thanks to the big size limiting the number of potential O scale modelers). Weaver GP38-2 models run well and are cheap, Atlas SW8-9 type switchers are like an O scale Kato in running characteristics. I switched out of O scale around Y2K so don't know how the later engines run but I'd beware of anything with twin "China"type drives as they are usually geared for toy train speeds.......DaveB

My I suggest On30

Lots of folks that I know are happy modeling in On30. It has the size of O scale andcan run on HO track and HO size curves.

I know it might not offer prototypes that you are interested in, but the availability and cost advantage is a plus.

Just a suggestion.

--Bill B.

"modeling in On30. It has the

   I think the real advantage of On30 is not that it runs on HO track but that it portrays an early era when structures and railroad equipment was smaller. On30 and O scale are both 1/4 inch scale so the same buildings and topography take up the same space, the difference is the old era can help make smaller buildings look plausible. As an example the Santa Cruz branch of the SP started out as a narrow gauge line then after the SP bought it they converted it to standard gauge. The scenery and size of the infrastructure(yards, depots,etc.)  didn't change, just the track gauge so a modeler would have the same decisions to make  modeling it in either On30 or O scale....DaveB

O scale

When it comes to modern rolling stock, Atlas have everything you need and then some. O scale is awesome ! There are several of us in this group that models in O scale. I've had many layouts in my life in all different sizes. My smallest layout that I've built was my O scale layout. 2 feet deep by 16 feet long, which I still have and operate. Like DaveB mention: "Atlas SW8-9 type switchers are like an O scale Kato in running characteristics" it is so true. That is one of my favorite engines of all times. A very sweet runner.Here is a video of my SW on my O scale layout. Enjoy your quest !!

What type of layout do you want?

Hi Darcykwine,

You haven't described what type of layout you are interested in.

Yes, an O scale layout oriented towards mainline operation with a large crew of operators will require a huge amount of space.  But a small switching layout can be built in a very modest space.  And many of them have been featured in this forum.  Take a look at the following threads:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/iowa-central-a-o-scale-2-rail-shortline-project-12201366

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/a-new-chapter-12200311

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/cleveland-flats-%E2%80%93-a-small-o-scale-switching-layout-12200493

And then, of course, there's my own O scale switching layout:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/photos-of-my-o-scale-switching-layout-at-the-rpm-meet-last-weekend-12194914

Thanks,
Damin.

I get the HO doesn't appeal to me thing...

As an N scaler I get it, HO doesn't appeal to me either, and I think that it has to do with being an N Scaler when Kato and Atlas were just starting to change N Scale for the better. At that time, all of the old guys would tell me that I was stupid for liking N and that I was wasting my time and money. 

I too love 2 rail O, but when my N Scale switching layout is about the same diameter as a circle that a GP9 requires, I quickly realize how much more I get out of N. If room and money wasn't an issue, I would have an Atlas SW9 and  pair of Atlas GP9's with sound and a full Southern Pacific light packages and a decent switching layout. Larger six axle equipment requires a larger radius, the Atlas RSD15 needs a 40.5" minimum.

Space isn't an issue. I am

Space isn't an issue. I am going from a roughly 10 x 12 foot room to a 40 x 50 foot attic. As for what I am planing for the layout is a West Virginia coal field theme loosely based on the NS Pocahontas sub or the CSX Mountain sub. Maybe 4 or 5 mines at most, cleaning/sorting facility and a small sorting yard. It would be an around the room with a continuous grade so that the west end staging could be 20 inches or so above the east end staging. The stairs come up in the middle of the space so no duck unders or crawl unders.  Granted I am still 4 or 5 years out from being able to use the space so I may change my mind on location and theme when the time comes to start building the layout.

"Space isn't an issue. I am

    What you will find is the issue will be area of layout required. Everything will take more materials,time,effort, and money to build.The reach in distances will be hard to deal with( best for a young agile guy who don't mind hanging out over a deep scene for hours placing trees). Keep in mind that an equivalent area in O scale will be 11 times the area of N scale( while HO scale would be about 3.25 times) , so 11 times the benchwork to build, 11 times the lighting,11 times the materials cost, etc. I've found that when thinking about O scale the best approach is to think in terms of how little railroad can I model and still get  operations I'd be happy with? O scale has a way of taking over your space and time so be sure you want to be that involved before starting a huge layout. As I've gotten older my time has become more valuable so a smaller layout is more appealing, I can enjoy it when I want and forget about it when I want to do other things. If I had a big crew of friends willing to help me build a 40 by 50 foot Appalachian themed layout I'd enjoy it but certainly would not want to think about building it by myself :> )......DaveB 

Atlas O MP15DC's, Too

 Atlas also sells an EMD MP15DC, which I assume has the same drive mechanism as the SW's. They would certainly fit into your "post 2000" layout era.

I, too am thinking of making a plunge into O scale 2-rail .... a small switching shelf layout. I will certainly buy one of these Atlas end-cab switchers that Nick and Dave and others recommend..

Good luck.

Thank you for the information

Thank you for the information I really appreciate it.

O scale and On30

What Bill and Dave talked about are all good but things have changed in the design and operation of a railroad - of any size. 

The width or the "visible" portion of a model railroad need not really exceed 12" - 18" in width. Industries can be flats or partial structures. The right-of-way is really the part we see when running a train. Unless you are building a railroad to photograph, most of the things we need on the model are not scrutinized when running a train. Your focus is on the actor, the engine and the train, when running thru the scene. 

Theatrical tricks play well for a large space. The hint of three dimensions is all that is necessary and deep scenes, especially in O scale (btw, On30 is O scale just 30" between the rails). Deep scenes are nice but take a huge amount of space in 1:48 so keep if simple and keep the trains your focus. 

I was drawn into model railroading by model trains. John Allen in particular. His layout design was a spagetti of sorts but tantalizing in that it looked like a working railroad in miniature. It was dirty, weathered, and had equipment and buildings that looked like they had seen better days. I had no idea that this was possible. Even today, I strive to  create scenes that are appealing but realize that I enjoy running trains and switching industries - not creating the vast scenes. 

Consider building a small and narrow test layout. It needn't have passing sidings, bridges, or buildings but give you an idea for what can be accomplished in a small space with large equipment (this is relative, of course, since I also model 1:13.7). In O scale, the cars are almost  foot long so a six foot section, or two, can give you good idea of whether this is right for you. 

Thanks Neil. I was thinking

Thanks Neil. I was thinking of starting small so that I can get things up and running quickly. That way I can have some fun and keep myself motivated while working on the rest of the layout. I made the mistake of starting off too big with my first n scale layout and lost my MOJO on it. I don't think that I will go with the module concept but I will work in phases to start out.

Why O scale?

O is great if you have the space. Only thing is it is 5' gauge, not 4' 8-1/2" like scale.

S scale is perfect, BUT, modern? S is at least 30-40 years behind the curve. MTH, they own old SHS line and makes some, but S seems to be stuck in transition era. I know, I was in S for 10 years and still have some S.

Whatever your choice, reserach first before you take the plunge. Save yourself a lot of money if you buy scale you are not happy with.

Terry Harrison

On30 v. O standard gauge

I think this is a little over simplification, because Narrow gauge equipment tends to be smaller prototypically so the layout would need less space to convey the same feeling as standard gauge. You wouldn't have an EM-1 or any articulated (read large/long) locomotive in narrow gauge and I am not sure what modern equipment is available in narrow gauge.

As for equipment Atlas-O also sells road engines as well, e.g. Dash 8-40's, poke around their website to see what is available from them and if they have sold the unit in 2RL in the past you might find it on ebay or at a train show.

Here are a couple pages of engines: http://shop.atlasrr.com/c-232-085.aspx,  http://shop.atlasrr.com/c-128-0189.aspx

Atlas also carries 2-rail track:  http://shop.atlasrr.com/c-206-060.aspx

If you live in the mid-west you might want to check out Menards for buildings, they have a wide variety of 3-rail O-gauge items, but I understand the buildings are 1/4" scale, although I have not seen them in person myself. They do mail order as well, but don't know what the shipping costs are like, you can check them out at: https://www.menards.com/main/home-decor/menards-collectibles/train-stuff-from-menards/c-14331.htm?searchTermToCategory=o+gauge, they have vehicles too in a few different scales: 1:43, 1:50, and 1:48.

O-gauge vs O-scale

While Lionel uses the same track between their O-gauge and O-scale equipment, usually when something is referred to as O-scale, especially if they call it 2-rail O-scale the gauge of the track is true 4' 8-1/2". So if you have O-gauge lionel 3-rail track at US O-scale yes that is 5' not the 4' 8-1/2"

Of course if you going to get into this there is also Proto48 which correctly scales everything, tire profiles, rail height, etc. Then there are scale differences depending on what part of the world you are in: UK typically is 1:43.5, US 1:48, and European is 1:45.

Sorry if this muddies the waters, but just trying to let one know things are not universal.

Start small...

My model railroad equipment ranges from G to Z scales, with the bulk of it being HO and N. I'm currently building a 40x80-inch N-scale layout in the living room of my apartment. While it's not ideal, it gives me the most railroad for my circumstances.

In addition to a lack of space, I have one other problem: my vision. Currently, Karma is paying me back for all the times I teased my mother about her constant need for reading glasses to see anything. But, I also have onset diabetic retinopathy, which means I have the potential to have major vision issues in the future.

That, coupled with some wonderful O-scale switching layouts that have been featured here of late (and a decades-long love of Frank Ellison's Delta Lines) have prompted me to look into up-sizing to O-scale. I've picked up a Red Caboose GP9 kit and a dozen or so freight cars - some nice and new, some in need of major TLC. My thinking is that even while I continue to model in N-scale, I can get my feet wet in O-scale, and maybe even build a small switching layout or switching puzzle in O-scale, so that if or when things get bad with my vision I'm equipped to make the switch to a bigger scale.

I thought about going the Lionel route, or even the On30, but neither grabbed me the way that 2-rail did. As for HO - of which I have a sizeable fleet - I'm not sure what will happen with my vision, and HO can already be a challenge what with coupler springs lost in the carpet and tiny screws that go everywhere EXCEPT into the right hole!

In conclusion, my advice is to buy a locomotive and a couple of cars, build a 2x8 or 2x12 switching layout, and experiment with O-scale. Learn what you are getting into before trying to take a 2000 sq.ft. bite.

All the best!

~AJK

The Verdict

So have you made your decision about going into O scale, or have you decided to go into another scale ?

Scale Trains

When I was a kid my father first put together a Lionel layout in our rented house's garage. Boy was that fun, and a great introduction. But then we went overseas again (father in Army).

Next I got an American Flyer set while in grade school. But I was always put off by the lack of scale detail in this early s-scale, and certainly in the Lionel. I even started down the path of trying to make continuous tie track for my S-scale.

The I found girls and cars...goodbye trains.

Somewhere around the late nineties I came back from Asia, and was watching a TV report on 'the largest model railroad layout' to be presented in a hotel garage in suburban VA. I said I need to go see what they are talking about? Turns out it was a giant module convention that attracted modules from all over the world.

One of the interesting aspects of this event was the inclusion of smaller layouts and displays in a number of other scales. It allowed one to make direct comparisons of the different sizes of these model trains, and extent of the 'detail scaling' available. It was at that point that I decided if I would get back involved with this hobby, I would likely choose HO,...for its size, widest availability, cost, etc.

Many train shows these days have multiply displays of different size trains. Perhaps you need to revisit some of these (particularly over the holiday season) to help with your decision as to size to choose.

Subsequently I started buying, saving, then selling and trading up in HO scale trains as the better and better stuff came out during the last 15 years,....some plastic trains now rival brass in detailing !!

One year at Timonium a fellow showed up selling his fathers HUGE collection of O-scale, 2-Rail cars. There were no engines, just cars. His father just liked building and displaying railroad cars. There was one particular extra long tank car that caught my attention, so I decided to buy it just for display (I'm a tank car fan).

O-Scale, 2-rail, UTLX 85' Propane Tank Car, “Tuloma Gas”
PHOTO

I subsequently went back over to his table and bought groups of built cars and kits as they were very nicely detailed, and priced pretty reasonable compared with the O gauge equipment I had been exposed to at my friend's extensive Lionel, MTH, Marx shop. My background thoughts at the time was I could take these O-scale trains with me to Thailand and set them up in an 'explorer's club' atmosphere I was contemplating. I even had to go out and search for some locos to pull these cars with. I found a 2-rail Shay and a very nice brass 2-rail 2-8-2 Mikado steam engine.  i even acquired a fabulous model of the B&O Wagontop caboose produced by Lionel that I figured I could convert to 2-rail wiring.

So I was figuring i could do a regular freight train, and a logging train in 2-rail scale. Regrettably I no longer plan on moving full time to Thailand, AND I am going to build a good size layout in HO scale. So I guess I need to get this O stuff out of storage and put ot up for sale.

Hopefully my eye sight will hold up for the smaller scale....

 

A layout suggestion.

Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, check around your area for an O-scale club just to see how the size really works out. And it might give you an option to run your modern trains before you get a layout built.

" I'd like to know more about

   Long ago Atlas explored the O scale market with this line of low cost Roco manufactured equipment. They made an F unit, a boxcar, a gon,and IIRC a bobber caboose and insulated boxcar. Also a line of tight radius 2 rail track and switches. The detailing on the cars was pretty good compared to the Lionel stuff available at the time,and the engines had a decent scale drive. I guess Atlas decided the O market was too small at the time so didn't expand the line. Much later Atlas returned to O with a new( and much more expensive) line of Chinese cars and engines. ...Dave B