"I'm not sure yet what I will

        I built some of those GP9 models when I was still modeling in O scale. They come with a drive that originated in the old Roco Atlas F-9 units. It's not fancy but actually runs pretty well if you replace the factory wheels with NWSL wheels( the originals are sintered metal and corrode then spark like crazy).  My favorite drive is the P&D metal frame with Weaver derived plastic trucks, it is simple and very smooth running with all wheel power pick up. P&D also makes a more expensive brass trucked version that's nice but kinda overkill on a runner engine and in addition it needs wipers added to make it all wheel pickup. ne thing I can recommend is glue the steps in with a strong plastic solvent as they tend to get knocked out if not really melted in place.I tried tenax or plastruct liquid on them at first but ended up using the thicker Testors to get them to stay. The engines are a nice first O scale model and run great on a small layout,I imagine they could go around 30 inch radius or less if needed. My favorite small O engine turned out to be the Atlas SW8-9 type which is like a Kato in it's running and reliability and comes ready to go right out of the box.....DaveB

Assembly

Can't say anything about the frame. I assemble mine a long time back according to directions. Pretty easy even though it looks like it has a gazillion x 2 pieces. About like one of the old HO Red Caboose or Intermountain freight car kits if you ever tackled one of those.

Jack

The Red Caboose GP9 ....

The Red Caboose GP9 is a great model, probably the best of anything made in plastic.  On mine I added the P&D brass trucks with P:48 wheels and the Protocraft kit that narrows the trucks to the correct scale width.  I was really surprised at how much that improved the appearance -- sometimes just a few scale inches makes a world of difference.  Yes it takes some work and persistence, but the results are really worth it.

Ed

Cleveland Flats

That rather impressive-looking array of modeling work and scenery in the Cleveland Flats article also piqued my interest in 0-scale! I'm currently modeling in N-scale and have a ton of N-scale locos and rolling stock already. I certainly don't need another (even pricier) collection! It sure is enticing, though. Maybe a teeny switching layout someday. Good luck!

O-scale clubs

If you would rather not invest in the track and building another layout, consider looking for a club that does O-scale. The only two I know the names of are my club (Baltimore Society of Model Engineers) and the New York Society of Model Engineers off the top of my head. I know there are others in different parts of the country, so depending on where you live that may be an option.

0-scale is fun. I got the bug too!

0-scale is fun. I got the spark from seeing a Trainman RSD5 in a train store in C&O paint. The size by itself not only towered all the H0 and N scale stuff but also gave a sence of getting closer to the real thing. I wanted it but I had some other plans for the money and next time I saw it it was gone. Still I wanted something like that for a display or anything. Few weeks later Atlas announced to do a rail U23b.s and some of the details like handrails on the Rsd that was bugging me was fixed and I believe that a moderate sized road unit was just perfect for me. After all that unit was way bigger than its counterpart in H0. I ordered a Conrail unit but my dealer seemed to screw the order up so I did not get one. When the third batch cae along I reordered one, this time in Chessie paint. These were dealyed for years and I had forgotten about it before I got a note that the unit arrived, 5 years after I ordered one!!! It looked good, and I Ebayed a second one in same paint but a different road number and the price was despite shipping over the pond rather nice. The general detail is good, those Blomberg trucks look awesome, metal railings ad stantions on the walkways, even a metal chain parts. Some detail are simplified or omitted but those are in most cases a easy fix. Only thing that bothers me are the strange looking plow kind of things, the molded on hoses and the printed on wind shield wipers. I saw a clip on Youtube where the Uboat was having sound and DCC and it ran like a dream. So I am to have that, as it is having two motors, I am not to tackle with the future DCC project. 

So far I have not been running them yet as I am deciding on the track. Peco is the main candidate because the brand is available over here without waiting for weeks or even months but Atlas looks good too. So far I have Ebayed a few freight cars for evaluation, so the roster is now seven freight cars and I am planning on a few more. Having rather small space makes the planning for a layout to a rather basic as there is no need or space for big yards or a lot of empty spaces where the train can stretch out. One aspect is always funny, how that innocent looking freight car or a engine seems to manageable, but once couple up with something the innocence is gone and you realize that the train is not only twice the length of a same set of cars but also twice as wide and high. So any  idea of a layout will be a some sort of a switching layout with a continued loop, I happen to like to become a rail fan once in a while and see that thing run while I enjoy my beer. I have a room for a line about the size of my garage where an upscaled H0 4x8 would fit. Unlike those 4x8,s the train will utilize the all four walls with an opening in the middle. This will make most of the structures as back drop flats. One long section would be a small yard, the opposite industrial switching and I would love to squeeze in some street running in it. This would make sure that the engines will have to run slow and the town has a law that no long end running is allowed, so I can run them the way I want as a pair. The era would be somewhere in the 1980.s and the Uboats are running their final miles on a branch or various switch jobs.

Back to the track, the first pieces I will get are at least one pair of turnout and half circle of 40 inch curve, not for I can't bend a flex rail or two but just to see how much space I got available. It is so easy to get carried away with I might have space for this or that, but in reality you have to stay in a rather simple track plan to keep things working. In this scale details will be crucial and the buildings huge. But on the vehicle part, many of toy cars look pretty good and cheap and I managed to get a couple scale collectible cars in sweet deals. But having a less track you might be able to have in smaller scale would be pretty nice in the future, less wirering, less to trouble shoot and hopefully more time to running the train. Having the layout on a chest height will add to the realism and I guess in a number of years my body will still be okay to nod down to have access to the layout.

I have gotten me besides the Uboats seven cars, besides one boxcar and a covered hopper by Weaver the rest are Atlas or Trainman. Weaver cars come cheap but have molded on handrails and stairs on the 50 foot car and the roof walk on the covered hopper is not see through. In H0 scale this may look acceptable but in 0 scale it is more noticeable so the hopper will get a new roof walk one day. Trainman cars are very nice th molded on crab ones are very nicely done and on the Railbox car I had to look twice to see they are molded. The ladders in the end of the car are separate pieces. The PS2 covered hopper is really nice and works fine with my chosen era as one of the older cars on the layout. To round up it all I have a pair of Evan box cars from Atlas and a future fun project, a very early Atlas caboose, which I am to upgrade to modern standards. Funny enough I got two engines and seven cars, but they come in three different couplers. Eventually they will get Kadees. So far I have had fun with this. I also have some stuff in 0n30 and I planned on a layout with my 2-8-0 and 4-6-0.s, they look awesome but cars have become harder to find and often with a pricey price tags.

"So far I have not been

    I suggest handlaying O scale track , especially the turnouts. The payoff handlaying O is much greater than in the smaller scales. For a shortline you can just use code 100 rail stripped from old HO track. If the layout is small and doesn't have very much rolling stock I'd go with Proto48 gauge instead of 5 foot O gauge, handlaying it doesn't make any difference in the work required and the finished product looks better. ......DaveB

So far it is still a learning

So far it is still a learning experience. I need a few pieces of track to visualize my mind what is possible. After all I do have pretty limited space and the track I mentioned before and a couple turnouts will help me a lot along a couple of buildings. After that, I am able to decide on what to do with it. But so far it has been fun, the size of the thing and the weight is cool as you get the feeling of getting even closer to a real railroad than on N or H0 scale. Naturally the size of the scale has some limits, so my approach is to explore it. And so far 0-scale has been interesting and fun. 

So far it is still a learning

So far it is still a learning experience. I need a few pieces of track to visualize my mind what is possible. After all I do have pretty limited space and the track I mentioned before and a couple turnouts will help me a lot along a couple of buildings. After that, I am able to decide on what to do with it. But so far it has been fun, the size of the thing and the weight is cool as you get the feeling of getting even closer to a real railroad than on N or H0 scale. Naturally the size of the scale has some limits, so my approach is to explore it. And so far 0-scale has been interesting and fun. 

"Naturally the size of the

    If you find that O scale is too big for your  available space you might give S scale a look. It's about halfway between HO and O scales with lots of the benefits of both.......DaveB

Candy?

Dave - you sly dog. Trying for another convert when I have such a passion for the large stuff and now playing with S scale. I like the fact that it is an architectural scale and easier to convert in my head (for me anyway). Now explain why Sn2 uses HOn3 trucks?

Back to O scale, I am only bothered by the sharp radius curves of the standard gauge stuff as I associate it with tinplate or "toy" trains (I do realize that I am playing with toys despite the scale, gauge, or number of rails). For some reason the same feeling disappears with the On30. 26"-27" radius in that gauge looks ok to my eye but the standard gauge wants to be 26" x 181% or, roughly, 4' radius. Try laying some track at both dimensions and see what your engine or long cars look like. If you like one over the other then do it the way you like. 

Now explain why Sn2 uses HOn3 trucks?

Hi Neil, I guess it was just for economy as HOn3 trucks were available and SN2 is such a minor scale that it might not support tooling up  new Sn2 trucks?   Somewhat like Bachman On30 developed using HO trucks instead of just building the stuff to On3 gauge, or O scale ending up 5 foot gauge instead of 4' 8.5" ( I guess it was really hard to find a ruler divided smaller than 1/4 inch in those days:> )? .....DaveB

Speaking of which ...

Does proto48 fix the track gage as well as wheel profile? I found some code 125 rail and started to lay it to 56-1/2" but my cheap cars have trucks that I thought were out of gage.  Not a problem but now those wheels just look wrong. I'd forgotten the 5' heritage. 

"Does proto48 fix the track

      Yeah, P48 is correct gauge with true to prototype flanges and wheel width. Some guys run the P48 wheels on track gauged to 5 foot but I don't see the purpose since the turnout frogs still have to be P48 specs so might as well just gauge the track to P48 specs. Others will keep their O gauge track and run compromise wheels that are narrower tread than regular O but not as narrow as P48 treads. Before I switched to S scale I had torn out my O scale track and was planning a new layout in P48 but then I re-thought how large a space I wanted to maintain so went down to S size.....DaveB

Sn2 using HOn3

It was more than just the trucks.  Shinohara (and others) make HOn3 track/turnouts that can be used.  Also, MDC was making HOn3 locomotive kits that could be converted.  Train and Trooper imported some brass Forneys several years ago gauged for HOn3 (Crusader Rail Services got the remainder when T&T closed).  HOn3 is only 2 inches wider than 2 feet in S scale.

Paul

O-scale & gauge

It wasn't the ruler (I know you are kidding) it was how much work the modeler wanted to do, since Lionel was making cars and track in O-gauge the scale people could just swap out wheels and couplers to get a pretty close to scale car. And of course now a-days that is the norm for most 3-rail equipment, built to scale except the gauge of the wheels and couplers. And if 3-rail manufacturers offer the car in 2-rail they swap the couplers and wheel sets.

The difference between 4' 8 1/2" and 5' in scale is approximately 1/16" (3.5" / 48) so it is hardly noticeable.

Strange thing is Lionel came out with Super-O in the 1950s, but seems modelers (at least those of the BSME and NYSME) used outside 3-rd instead of the middle third rail, not sure why. Maybe because of hand laying the track since they did get a run of steel rail made to the correct rail profile, although big for scale (.172)

The nice thing about 5' gauge is it makes our Baltimore Streetcars prototypically correct as they ran on 5' gauge.

utB

Because of the New Castle Industrial Railroad website and Cleveland Flats I also got the bug about a year ago.  I picked up an undecorated Weaver GP 38-2 on Ebay, runs kind of like an old Athearn blue box.  But just seeing that big hunk of iron moving down my one piece of sectional track was impressive.  I spent some time contemplating this.  A couple of things have kept me from pulling the trigger.  First, the expense I have already made in HO.  But, could recoup some and move on.  Another concern was finding parts to upgrade the GP, i.e. there are no Detail Associates type parts in O gauge.  But I would say my biggest problem was finding suitable modern era boxcars.  I bought a Weaver exterior post, but candidly I want to put my days of carving off grab irons behind me.  I built an Intermountain 40 footer about fifteen years ago, they show up on EBAY.  But cars not the right era for a modern switching layout and a GP38-2.   Have not given up, always in the back of my find.  I have plenty of room, my foot print area is almost identical to the New Castle.

OOP's Title of Previous Email

Not some kind of code, don't know what happened there.  Should have been Interest in O gauge. Sorry.

Re: message titles

Jack,

Unless you are accessing this forum in some way (email?) I don't know you can click the Edit link under your post (bottom left corner) and fix the title as opposed to creating the second message. This is unlike some other forums (e.g. yahoo groups) where once the post is sent it is not editable.

Interest in O scale

@Jack - I guess my interest is similar and, reading other posts and forums, there seems to be a distinct difference between the O Gauge group and O Scale groups. Equipment for different eras is small compared to HO but not horrible. I have to admit a bent toward truss rod and wooden cars but the modern stuff, graffiti and all, is what you see everyday. Jim is right about the 1/16" not being noticeable (much) as long as the wheels and side frames are not the odd clunky versions of the last. My humble opinion. 

Sorry to hijack this thread with Dave re: S Scale. Re-reading the OP's initial comment it is clear that we share the same love of trains - in any scale or gage!

 "my biggest problem was

The selection is not as good as in HO but Atlas offers some nice later era equipment and Lionel and MTH make lots of scale size stuff that can be converted to 2 rail. I never had a problem finding suitable cars, my problem was with the space required to build a railroad for them. Here's a Weaver car cut down to 40 foot for copper service on the old SP......DaveB  

Weaver Box Car Upgrade

DaveB, great looking box car.  What did you do to the Weaver car besides shortening it, and what parts did you use?  Looks like you carved off the grabs and ladders and added sale stirrups.

 "What did you do to the

In addition to the shortening I changed the ends to All Nation brass ends, put brass ladders, brakewheel,and cross step on the ends, made wire side grabs,cut levers, and stirrups from brass stock. The Weaver trucks have P48 wheel sets in them. The body is not exact for the prototype copper service cars but captures their flavor.....DaveB 

Roughly it is twice of size of H0 scale!

Roughly it is twice oaf size of H0 and it means you have to think in small in H0 scale to adapt to 0 scale. That is not a bad idea as you because of the size get a feeling of getting closer to the trains. It is pretty much the same sensation you get when you switch from N to H0. The mass of the things does the trick. Getting closer, you may think of having buildings as flats? I have a feeling that this works better the larger scale you model and having the roof line of the buildings above the eye level will make you forget what isn't behind that wall. It is like looking at the building across the street where you are not able to see what is behind it. Detailing the scenes even more becomes rewarding as you are able to see even a beer can tossed on the payment.  In many ways a shelf layout around one or two walls would not take much more space than a layout in smaller scale. Once you start to mess around with curves, you will get in trouble. As I posted before, I am checking every possible 4x8 H0 scale layout to fit in my available space of 8xl6 for 0 scale as I do want to take a break and rail fan the whole thing. But those curves do eat space!. I have to complicate things, thinking of build it up as modules because one day I may have to move and I don¨t want to dump everything in a dumpster. I may be able to disconnect the modules if I one day want to share the trains on a train show. 

0 scale trains and track is more expensive but you can cope with less and I guess in the longer run the price will be the same, within time having less will be rewarding on terms of servicing the trains and the layout itself. As I posted before, I am learning more and more on 0 scale myself and some my observations may be wrong but so far it has been working out nicely. I am happy the way my Trainman U-boats look and feel awesome and they will be my sole unit on my future layout. If there are any issues with their operations, I may consider of changing the motors and one thing I am to get them is dcc with sound. In 0scale the sound will be beefier than in smaller scles.

Right now I am E-baying more cars. Last time posted I had seven and I got two more covered hoppers. I like this E-bay thing as I try to get nice deals and the prices with shipping and handling is a little less than paying sticker prices. Because the size, even a single box car becomes more individual than in smaller scale, not only just because the size but you are able to read all the markings on the car without a microscope.

Even a few cars on the layout, it is easier to appreciate everything. I try to get cars that are logical and prototypic enough for the area I am thinking to model. There will not be a generic McDonalds car in my roster. Once I am happy about the roster of cars, I will address the track. I still am considering Peco as they are more available over here in Europe. I live something like 200 miles away from the closest dealer so that thing is a consideration in any scale. I do have an idea of a track plan, something I found on Youtube, which does have the opening in the middle for the operation. My idea of shelves may be a little wider than you think of as I would love to have them up to 2 feet wide. Here is a link to the video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAjrZ_t6w28

There are fewer products available in 0 scale but you may have some unexpected cheaper resources to deal with, some you can check out in toy market or create by yourself. Vehicles can be turned over from toy cars, With a steady hand you can add the chrome highlights and details like tail lights that are missing on them, maybe dulling them down and plates on, they are ready to be filling those empty streets or parking lots. By checking around, you are able to find some sweet deals. 

I have a feeling that you can easier create unique buildings by yourself as in larger scale it is easier to scratch build them. I have a plan of doing so by using some Clever Models kits but do in a different way. I was thinking making those shallow flats by using styrene and if possible print the kits sheet as decals on top of everything and get a pretty nice effect of weathering. I guess this will be cheaper than making those brick canyon with kits. 

Cheers from Sweden!