I have been using the Fast

I have been using the Fast Tracks (FT) jig for building switches. Jeff Otto's turnout templates share a common design element: lay the track in the grove and solder it to the PC ties.

I noticed a few differences between the two fixtures:

     - Otto's come with all rails pre cut to fit the fixture; FT requires you to cut and file each piece.

     - Otto's uses a solid frog assembly; FT requires you to cut, file & solder each frog.

     - Otto's jig only secures the guard rail on one PC tie; FT uses two PC ties to secure them.

     - Otto's jig allows the placement of wooden ties in the jig; FT does not.

     - Otto's assembly process does not require the stock rail to be filed where the points meet. 

     - Otto's assembly process has freely moving hinged points; FT allows the choice for hinged or solid rail points, but does not have that little extra "thingy" to provide positive electrical conductivity.

     - Otto does not state which brand of track is being used in their kit.

     - FT has a larger selection of templates.

     - Time: Otto's system is faster to build.

     - Cost wise, assuming after the purchase of the basic jig and filing tools, Otto's system is $20 per basic switch kit when ordered separately. FT built switches use standard Micro Engineering rail and get cheaper with each one built. I've built so many turnouts with the FT system, my cost is under $5 per switch.

     FT basic kit to build 5 #6 turnouts is $306. Otto's cost to build 5 #6 turnouts is $200. This cost comparison includes everything to make 5 identical switches (PC ties, wood ties, Pliobond glue, FT filing tools, etc). Each additional Otto switch is $20. FT uses Micro Engineering track at $66 per bundle (code 83 non weathered), but has enough rail to build 15 switches; under $5 per turnout per bundle of rail. 15 switches at Otto's cost is $300.

     A quick calculation determines the balance point between the systems is 12 Otto switches. If you are building 12 or less switches, Otto is cheaper. Anything over 12 is where the FT system becomes substantially cheaper with each turnout built.

Wazzzy

Nothing but trouble?

What problems have you been having with Peco turnouts?

"A quick calculation

        Fastracks jigs are easy to re-sell so the cost per switch can be quite low even if a few are built. The key is using just bulk rail and tie stock  and not buying the  premade switch ties. I can't see the Otto system competing on price basis ,it's more deluxe method for those wanting high quality at higher cost.....DaveB

Nothing but trouble

Thanks Wazzzy,&cthurt for your comments they are greatly appreciation.

My problem was I was using Peco Insulfrog turnouts but 4-8-4-4-8-4 AD60 Garratt was  chewing out the plastic frog causing the Garratt to derail.

So I changed over to Electrofrog turnouts .Fixed the derailments, but now causing problems with the point blades.Jeff Otto ' turnout template seems to fit my requirements .

I will keep you posted

Smokey Dawson    Australia

Make your own jig

Hi all

Over here in the UK Micro Engineering switches are getting hard to get. I solved the problem with scanning a LH & RH ME switch on the flat bed scanner giving me a instant plan of a switch.

I printed this plan out and mounted it on card the same thickness as the copper clad ties. Cut out the ties that would be copper clad i.e. under the frog several either side of the switch blades with a few extra to add strength.

The card was then mounted on a piece of plywood 1/2 inch thick.

When laying the skeleton switch I made another print of the switch and glued it into position on the layout. To this wooden ties were glued to the plan missing out where the copper clad ties were going to go. The skeleton switch can then be spiked or glued down on the wooden ties. Card packing can be used under the copper clad ties if you wish.

If you wreck the jig another can be easily made in a few minutes. Costs, two sheets of paper, card, plywood base (off cut), rail, a few copper clad ties and wood sleepers. You do the maths.

If you have CAD available then switches of different radius, straight or curved can be drawn out to suit your layout.giving total flexibility.

Loconuts

CNC Method of Turnout Building

If you are into the metal working end of scratchbuilding models you may have a CNC machine. I use my Sherline CNC to make turnouts. Yes it's an expensive proposition buying a CNC machine but you can make other things besides turnouts.

Since I model in HO, HOn3, HOn30 and TT scale the expense of buying turnout templates can run up the cost, but still be under the cost of a CNC machine. Also all the different frog angles are not available is some of the scales and gauges.

For my TT scale modules I wanted #4 turnouts. I tried resin casting complete turnout's.

Really didn't like how they turned out. I gave milling a copper clad board a try.

First I drew up the ties in a CAD program.

Next it was imported to the CAM program used to generate the G codes necessary to run the machine.

A piece of copper clad board is fastened to the mill table, the program entered and it's ready to cut out the turnout.

Once the initial work of drawing up the first it is easy to cut as many as you need. Need the other hand. No problem. Just flip the CAD drawing, run it through the CAM program and you're ready to cut the other hand.

Next I needed a jig to accurately do the frog angles. Again the CNC Sherline to the rescue. I milled the frog angle in a piece of rock maple.

In order to get the correct angles on the frog rail ends I made a jig to hold a piece of rail at the proper angle on my lathe. Using a sanding disk I carefully sanded the angle.

Perhaps more expensive for the initial cost but, since I use the metal working equipment of other model projects the investment in the tooling pays for itself in the long run.

Bernd

Install/wire 'em right...

Dear Smokey,

So, if I read this right, you've gone from:

- a mechanical issue with the PECO points, where the plastic Insulfrog frog-area prematurely wore when subjected to one of the bigger, inflexible-mech'd NSWGR loco models on offer

to

- an electrical "shorting the switchrails/point-blades" issue with the PECO points because they have not been installed with respect to being "DCC friendly"

NB The instructions with all current PECO Setrack, Streamline, and Code 83 "US geometry" turnouts specifically call-out the factory-installed jumpers powering the switchrails from the closure rails,
note that creating a "DCC friendly" turnout will require snipping these factory jumpers and adding switchrail<> stockrail jumpers,
(The instructions tag the addition of the stockrail jumpers as "optional",
but for reliability sake it's really mandatory)
and showing the locations deliberately left-clear of sleeper plastic to facilitate such mods...

http://www.peco-uk.com/imageselector/Files/Instruction%20sheets/Code%2083%20Electrofrog%20A4%20Eng.pdf 
/> (See "Figure 2", and the associated text at left under the heading "Wiring for Standard 12v. DC Systems and for Digital Command Control (DCC)" )

Respectfully, if you've already spent the $$$ to purchase the PECO turnouts,
I'd reccomend adjusting the installation/wiring of the PECO turnouts as described in the instructions
(isolate the switchrails/point-blades from the frog, and jumper them to the adjacent stock-rail),
and enjoying the resulting smooth mechanical _and_ electrical operations.

Replacing the PECO turnouts wholesale with handlaid will not resolve the "shorting at the switchrails/point-blades" issue,
(esp if the switchrails and pointblades are built from one continuous length of rail,
which is then soldered to the handlaid frog,
effectively turning them into one electrically-continuous assembly,
just poised and primed to deliver exactly the same "shorting at the point blades" conditions you are facing now....), 

unless they are constructed with the same "isolate the switchrails/point-blades, and jumper them to the adjacent stock rail" configuration your current PECO turnouts are already manufactured with...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Sydney, Aust

Got one yesterday

I made an offer on one he had listed on eBay and got it in a couple days. For Hawaii that is amazing. The fixture looks good and the price was very reasonable (for a guy dyed in the wool FastTrax customer I felt more than a little guilty). No time tonight but hope to get an example going this weekend and will give you an report!

What radius Peco points?

Hi Snokey,

What radius Peco points are you trying to bend the AD60 Garratt around? And are there any reverse curves involved? 

A valid solution may be that for these locomotives you simply may need a larger radius Peco point than you have currently installed on your layout. From the Eureka Models website at  http://eurekamodels.com.au/news3rd.html I quote 

This post was at the design stage for that model, but to bend a locomotive this big around 18" radius points everything has got to be working and set up perfectly, Your track has to be laid absolutely perfectly with no local kinks that tighten up the radius. A later post at  http://eurekamodels.com.au/news4th.html confirms 18" minimum radius as the manufacturing specification and I quote

The fact that you have chewed out plastic point frogs tells me:

1. you are attempting to force something inflexible through those plastic point frogs, and,
2. the radius of the Peco points you are trying to bend the Garratt around could be less than 18" (the Peco set track points ST240/ST241 are less than 18" radius). Peco Streamline series points should be OK with a 24" minimum nominal radius.  
3. the combination of the radius of the points and the adjacent trackwork (these are long locomotives) is too tight for the Garratt Locomotive as currently set up, or
4. you have a mechanical flexibility issue that prevents something on the Garratt from swinging as far as it should be able to swing to allow it to travel around the designed 18" radius. 

WARNING - you cannot just swap out an Insulfrog point and replace it with an Electrofrog point of the same geometry. These is some additional stuff that has to be done for the Electrofrog point (See previous post by Professor Klyzlr).. Assuming you have followed the electrical advice in the previous post and the Peco pints are installed and wired correctly, it you still have problems then it is a mechanical flexibility issue within the Garratt chassis

OK you haven't said which Peco points your are using, so let's take it straight from the Peco website.

• Set track code 100 points (ST240 ST241) are only available in Insulfrog and the Garratt will jam up on these because that are less than 18" nominal radius (listed as 17 1/4" radius)
• Small radius streamline points  (SL 91/SL 92 Insulfrog and SL E91/SL E92 Electrofrog) have anominal 24" radius so the Garratt should be OK through these. 
• ​Medium radius streamline code 100 points  (SL 95/SL 96 Insulfrog and SL E95/SL E96 Electrofrog) should be OK with a nominal radius of 36"  
• Any of the code 83 points  (with Peco part number SL83XX) are #4 or larger with a nominal radius of 30" plus and should cause no problems for the Garratt. 

If you are attempting to cross from one track to another adjacent track, for a very long locomotive like the Garratt, as the loco crosses from one track to the other,  the loco is in effect on a reverse curve. If you are using the small radius points SL91/SL92 back to back to make the crossover,  then although the nominal radius is greater than 18", you may be pushing part of the chassis to its limit of travel one way and another part of the chassis to its limits the other way just as the main driver units hit the frog area. A better solution is to go for the 36" radius points back to  back. This larger radius does not force bogies and the driving wheel units so far off line while the locomotive is crossing from one track to the other.  

This is probably a combination of 2 long wheelbase locomotive units, their pivot and their bogie pivot arrangements and the radius of the points. Swapping the same geometry point from another maker cannot solve the problem if the loco mechanism is mechanically bound up because one or more of the pivot arrangements has reached the end of its mechanical travel or is being constrained by dummy model pipework, electrical wiring harness slack, backs of cylinders etc before it can move as far as it should be able to move.

You need to bring the locomotive into the trouble area dead slow and look for where the mechanism tightens up. This will be tricky with the Garratt with its 4-8-4+4-8-4 wheel arrangement, You also need to watch for a jam elsewhere later on the chassis shoving something offline at the front and vice versa as the locomotive comes onto the point, crosses the point and gets fully off onto plain track . This can make tracking the real problem down just that little bit harder..

I hope that this helps to get your Garratt running problems sorted,  

Peco points

Thanks Neil,John&the Prof.

I have a mix of 24"-36"points on my layout .All are installed with insulator joiners as per Peco's recommendations

My trouble with some of my points was the bar and spring holding the blades.

Thats why I thought this turnout template might be a better option.

I love putting my Garratt on my track with 20,  100 ton coal hoppers pulling up the grade listening to the sound.

Again Thanks every one for the advise .

Smokey Dawson    Bellbird   NSW  Australia

For those who don't know the AD60

Hi Smokey and all,

For those who have never heard of the AD60 Garratt, have a look at 

Nice locomotives, but...

.... I want that zoom lens. He just kept pulling back, and back and back - and still had a decent shot when in close-up mode.

Garratts!

I love the Garratts design! It's a shame they never made it to the U.S.!

George J

One of them did make it to the US...

Hi George,

My understanding is there is a former South African Railways 2' gauge Garratt somewhere in Texas. See  http://www.sa-transport.co.za/trains/narrow-gauge/ng_info_pictures/steam_garratts.html  It is on a private railway with restricted access as far as I know.. More information on the NGG13  type is at  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Class_NG_G13_2-6-2%2B2-6-2  These were German-built by Hanomag under license from Beyer Peacock in the UK, who held the manufacturing rights for the Garratt design.

This was one of the 2' gauge SAR Garratt designs at just over 48' long. Later classes up to NGG16 delivered improved performances. These are small fry when you stack them up against the 3'6" gauge SAR GMA/GMAM class which was over 93' long just for the locomotive but came in at 137' long with the extra water tanker that they always towed.  

First Impression

This is the On30 #6 switch jig so may differ from Wazzy's experience. 

Peco 'small turnouts'

Today I was fooling around with a large number of turnouts i have collected over the past few years in hopes that I would have everything covered when I went to build a new layout. I have a lot of Peco's and a fair amount of Fleischmann profi-track ones,...all good quality turnouts.

I think I had such a good number of these quality turnouts, that I just went ahead and gave my considerable collection of Atlas turnouts to a young fellow that was just getting into the hobby,...at least that explains why I could not find my collection of Atlas turnouts in my storage trailer.

This past weekend i attended a small train show in Jacksonville and discover a big box of atlas yourouts. The price was right so i bought them, thinking I might be able to just use them as templates if nothing else, then give them away to another young rr-roader.

So I'm fooling around with all these different turnouts and I discover that the Peco 'small turnouts' are a tighter radius than the Atlas #4. And the Peco 'medium turnouts' are the same size as the Atlas #4's. And the Peco 'large turnouts' appear to match the Atlas #6's.

My question is, ....is it true that turnouts smaller than #4's are not normally entertained on modern layouts? If that's so what do I do with all the Peco 'smalls' I have??

Interestingly, I see that the radius of the turnout track on these 'small' ones is somewhere right around 24" radius.

“.is it true that turnouts

l wouldn’t use them for a modern mainline operation but for older inner city industrial trackage they’d look fine.I recall photos of the New York Cross harbor line pulling 50 foot boxcars and modern tank cars around the old Bush Terminal tight curves (maybe 100 foot radius?)......DaveB

About Fastrack

I own several jigs from FT in N scale; the produced turnout are first quality turnout, flawless and have perfect electrical continuity which is a must in N scale.

The debate is endless about the best system and the cost of each system; finaly it's your choice and your money.

For me FT offer a versatile and extremely complete system to build your own turnout; this is for what I was looking for.

If you buy turnout jig , it's to build small or even big quantities of turnouts, if it's not the reason, the cost is high for a few turnouts, and I think is better to buy already build turnouts, there are many brands, all with quality and inconvenient, but by today standard, they are all good anymore.

About FT, if you are ready to go, buy crossover for the number of turnout you need, a #6 or a #8 crossover allow you to build #6 turnouts or #8 turnouts and if necessary a crossover; one jig for two turnouts assembly.

Buy also the #12 frog jig tools it's allow you to make any # frog you want from a #4 to as far as a #12.

Buy a points jig tools; this tool is a great help.

If you have the money, FT sell laser cut ties turnouts assemblies, but you can put the ties yourself using ME wood ties or by building your own, this is much cheaper.

Bundles of ME track could be find on offer on Ebay or in some advertisement, sometimes you can find cheap offer.

Curved turnout by FT are first rate, but are more difficult to build than straight one.

FT offer a device which allow you to curve rail profiles to  your desire; quiet expensive, it works great and again you can find it on Ebay like all the FT jigs at affordable price.

Because of the use of jigs, I often build batch of turnouts, I mean more than I need immediately, the reason is because I can find a future use for them, but especially because the small tips, hints and trick to build them are easy to maintain and use when you build a few than just one; but this is just my opinion.

Prepare all the frog, gardrails, rails pieces first, and then go solder everything in the jig; it's like a production work but feel this help and make construction of a turnout faster ( around 35 minutes in N scale)

To build good turnouts, clean well the PC ties, the bottom of the rail, use fine solder under 1 mm and a good quality soldering iron like the Weller brand or much better a resistance soldering unit; use only non corrosive flux if necessary.

Good luck.

Marc

Some pictures from the start to finished N scale code 55 turnouts using FT jigs. (curved and straight #8 turnouts)

Peco modified to DCC

I have used this method before acquiring Fastrack jigs; this method in fact is just a way to make a Peco (N scale turnout) working like a FT turnout in the electrical way.

The pictures show how I isolate definitively the frog using a jeweler saw (like FT) and how I solder jumper wire to obtain a live turnout and continuous point electrical continuity.

I even ended by soldering the point under the turnout definitively, this give live point and no more weak point because hinged; the blade are soft enough to move as usual with a servo or a Tortoise.

View of the cut made to definitively isolate the frog

New jump soldered to electrical continuity ( Peco Crossover) and at the right small jump for the points

Cheapest

Cheapest way is to build them old school, not using jigs.  Then the only cost is materials.