Nobody? Okay well here's the

Nobody? Okay well here's the second version of the track plan. Would appreciate tips or advice.

Moderator note: shrank the image to 750 width.

Both

Both look good if not downright ambitious! The second seems to be cut off (try a max width of 750-775).  Given that the connecting line is the only change then the second looks promising.  Assume HO scale and 12" grid lines then this railroad should keep a number of people busy. If your staging will be active during operations then consider making a mole space for someone to work out of sight or out of the normal flow of human traffic.  

While I operate alone most of the time, moving trains in and out of staging is not my idea of operations and I wish that I'd given this area a great deal more thought. Even a transfer table and drawers for offline cars would be an improvement. 

I really like all the switching potential but also like the open look of the first version. An interchange without the industrial area looked like a nice area to breath between more dense traffic. Ok. My two cents are spent.

Length of grade

Hi,

nice.

Looking at your first version, I was thinking along what you posted as a second version, however I do see some drawback to the second version: the length of the grade.

The green downgrade needs to have xx length to achieve < = 3% grade to reach yy distance of vertical separation. Add on the length of the yard ladder and yard. You'll likely have to turn your green downgrade somewhere to achieve the necessary length.

Based on your first version I'd go down along the lower peninsula (as drawn), turn beneath the peninsula (as originally planned) and then go down some more to reach the yard ladder and yard. You could even retrofit a helix later on if you find you need it (but only if you really need it

Your second version, however, cannot be turned because your benchwork is too narrow to allow for the track circle, with respect to the right-hand peninsula. So you can either go down or have a yard along the lower wall but not both - as I see it.

However, I'd consider putting the staging yard at the bottom center, based on aisle occupancy - the yard master is likely busy in the "yard corner" and he or she might be disinclined to operate a staging yard at the same time. Along the bottom center you have much less switching work going on, so the staging yard can be operated simultaneously. Anyway, build it as you see fit, this detail will be easy to change later on if you should find the solution doesn't work well.

Have you spent any thought on construction? From the track plan it seems as if your planned layout is really two interconnected layouts - in which case it might be favorable to build one after the other (I do see the clearance problem with switching the yellow branch).

Which leads me to my last comment - consider swapping the yellow and white branches on the lower peninsula. It might improve on grade and curve radii trackwise, however it might not work scenically.

Have fun!

Here's the plan again in

Here's the plan again in full. See if it works this time.

Appreciate the comments. Yeah the grade was a real concern in that turn under the peninsula. It works but by taking it along the length of the lower switchback we can reduce the grade to no mare than 2%. If you look close you will see the gree continuing along the lower layer on the right side. In there we have a switchback planned to allow the train to come up gradually, reverse direction, and continue up the same length it just traveled. THis way we are not on a steep grade with a tight radius turn.  Of course this means we have to gets locos switched around as I think pushing up a grade is begging for derailments.

The yellow is designed for scenic purposes mainly. It will be the Lane's quarry in Westfield, MA which features spurs on hills. THe two sidings at the end of the peninsula will actually be on their own steep grade. Apparently Lane's uses this method to place empty hoppers at the top of the hill and then roll them down the hill as they get filled. This allows them to let the cars roll without need of a loco. Admittedly, I need to research this a little more to understand exactly how they are doing this. I added the two lower sidings at Lane's to try and make ops a little more complicated. 

For staging, I am hoping to have that about 6-8 inches below the yard to the left. This is actually its own room. I do not anticipate staging to be highly active during an ops session. I imagine trains will be already made up in the yard and deliveries in staging will also be ready to go. With that the yard operator will actually be sorting in the yard itself and also working the two yard industries as shown and possibly the little branch on the opposite wall.

In effect the yard will be the staging for ops sessions. However, fo rmy own operating I really like the idea of trains coming onto the layout and off of the layout ina  sensible way. So, as is often the case, the staging represents those points off layout to which cars are going or from which they are coming. These moves will probably only happen a few times during operations in order to keep the main yard clear.

One problem we have anticipated is that it would be hard to wor by hand in a staging yard with 6-8" clearance. So the staging will actually wrap around to that upper wall and will have one track there for manual loading and unloading to a shelf unit with track above it. The industry currently shown there is going away. There is a pic of staging attached.

What I am trying to get here is a mix of heavy switching that will keep an operator busy, and also some lighter switching that will allow an operator to run one train for 20-30 minutes and then move on to another train so they don't get bored in one space.

It really is like building two layouts at once so we are planning to build the lower portion first and probably run it for a month or two to let it settle and to work out the kinks in that system before we start on the upper. THe only other thing I am thinking of doing is adding an interchange to the upper part of the layout. That area represents Holyoke, MA where the PVRR interchanges with the NS. In my mind there would be an interchange track that either has cars switched by hand outside of ops, or maybe has a way to get down to that staging line so a train can pick it up from staging. I like the second idea better but it may be a bit too ambitious for reality.

Also, as I go I may eliminate an industry or two in order to allow for more scenery.

Nice

Hi,

it seems you have put quite some thought into things and my questions are already taken care of

Have fun!

PS: Pushing up a grade should not be a problem. At least in theory it makes no difference where the loco is in the train consist

How will this operate

My biggest question is, how will the railroad operate?

Are the industries all end of the line? (I'm not sure if that is the correct terminology)  It looks like all the freight will becoming from staging into the yard, sorted at the yard, sent to the industry, brought back, then sent to staging. With that in mind, will there need to be two staging yards, one for the east and one for the west?  If so, this means you can sent trains down and not have to do any turning of the locos.  You also don't really need to switch up the make up of the trains.  Just give the cars different destinations when they come back into your world.

It also looks like the staging yard is vastly undersized for the layout.  It may be that you are just showing that as a place holder, but I would suspect the staging needs to be 3-4 times the size you have.  

It looks like a train that would leave the yard would have to make 1 lap around the layout to get to staging, and another to get back up.  This seems like a waste of movement.

If I were to place the staging, it would be under the bottom and right portion as shown on the plan. 

Good luck!

Yes basic operation will be

Yes basic operation will be fed from the staging yard, into the on layout yard where it is sorted into the appropriate trains, and then to the industries. On the way out the opposite process happens. A couple of cargo types will be routed back to the layout without going to staging but for the most part that's the way it'll go. 

I think I am moving away from the switchback idea in favor of a more gradual climb that circles the room. In this case the staging track would go along the top of the diagram, then around the right and bottom as it climbs out. THis eliminates switches under the benchwork, as well as making for a very gradual grade.

I'm not too concerned about the train taking time to transit this climb, its not that far.