Well, I got zero response so

Well, I got zero response so I suppose that my plan is fine. I now have all the track so I will start laying it down over the weekend. 

Ideas

David:

I know that railroad builders in the UK do layouts differently so this may be completely off base. Consider moving the staging to the rear and flip the yard and industry tracks to the front of the layout. Some low trees or buildings could partially conceal the staging area.

A transfer table has always appealed to me for staging tracks to get much longer storage and fewer turnouts. If the staging is to remain on the front of the layout to fiddle cars on and off then it might be a fun project on some drawer guides. 

The engine terminal can be much smaller for a diesel servicing area. Major repairs could go to Boston or Hartford so this is really a place to show off your engines more than play value. If I remember your interest is running trains and not switching or building kits because of the arthritis. Unless there are quite a few ready to run buildings available then leave those spurs out and create some open space for country running for now. One return loop might form a reversing section just for variety and simulate an interchange as well.

Two cents worth plus inflation anyway. I'm watching with the idea of building a small second layout for my HOn3 equipment.

Neil E

On an island almost as far from the UK going either direction around the globe ;- )

Instead of a "staging" yard,

Instead of a "staging" yard, what if that yard is an interchange/division point yard. Put the turntable lead off the yard in the front. That way, all of your locomotives would be accessible from the front and serviced from the "staging" yard.   

Your planning head is in the right place

Hi David,

Your reasons for having staging/interchange up front make sense. You have done your analysis of your chosen prototype and picked your roster. You have worked out a track layout and operating methodology that you can handle.

So far it looks good for a smaller layout that offers both industrial shunting and mainline laps. . 

Remember - there is only one person who you have to please with this layout and that is yourself. The rest of us are a sidelines cheer squad.

Just another one of the cheer squad,

I am considering a similar

I am considering a similar idea, where I was going to essentially stretch out the Heart of Georgia with a return track in front like yours as well. What I was going to do was have it slope down to the staging and back a bit so it wouldn't be so in your face. Painted black, I thought it would be a lot less visible. I have mobility issues as well, so this is still my plan, but I have more room to play with.

following keenly.

Considering Your Situation...

...I doubt you could come up with a much better plan. Optimally the staging should be at the back but your reasoning for putting it at the front are sound.

One small suggestion:-

Rather than having the turnout for the left most industry off the mainline if you inserted it in the yard runaround it would allow all your switching, other than runarounds, to be done clear of the mainline so a second train could be circulating and it would also act as a yard lead. See my rogh mod to yur plan below.

Yard Ladder

David,

One thing I realized in Graeme's updated drawing was the S curves at the ends of the ladder.  A minor detail but swapping the turnouts will loose that and gain a bit of length on the inside staging/industry track.

Keep up the good work.

Dave

Are you in Hawaii? If so, I

Are you in Hawaii? If so, I envy you. I have been to Oahu three times and loved being there.

The staging has to remain at the front as I have to sit in a chair to enable me to stay long enough to enjoy myself. Without a chair, I have about 8 minutes endurance! I know what you are saying about the engine facilites but I see it like this.

SNE is short of money so just about manages to run the two locos that it has (SW7 and an F3A) so has to keep the facilities that are there from better times - hence the turntable (reality check - I have the turntable - it is expensive - thus I want to use it - plus it is fun to manage it from JMRI!). If you look at an earlier blog post, the pasenger building is run down and boarded up as they dropped passenger traffic years before but not the the New Haven runs an RDC through, they put down a boardwalk rather than go to the cost of renovating the building!

I am not keen on a reverse loop as it "destroys" the fantasy that we are between Hartford and Boston. Plus my software rather assumes that trains go east or west  so changing direction like that would rquire a re-write. Not that I mind that but I want to run the layout with the software to be sure that it is doing the right thing without a change of direction complication.

Last comment - my base is made from 5mm foam board (not sure what you call it but foam between two sheets of paper) which works because of the secure underneath of the kitchen units. It sits free and is held in place by the walls. Attaching stuff to the front would be a structural demand too far.

Thanks for the comments. I do appreciate the time and all of them make me think hard about what I am doing.

I left the industries to the

I left the industries to the left off the runaround for a purpose. I wanted to give the impression that it was an industrial area away from the main yard. It also means that it can only be switched by a train in one direction. This is another complication that I want to build into my routing software so this arrangement enables me to test it properly. If it becomes a switching annoyance then these things happen and I will have to organise trains around it. 

It is quite hard to schedule the RDC given the average speed (I guess 20mph over the whole journey) so that it arrives at Sunset on a sensible schedule. Making it miss a way freight will add to the complication of the timetable (and hence the fun!).

No S curves is a great idea

No S curves is a great idea there so I will go that way. Thanks for the comment - I missed that little point.

I did think of that but

I did think of that but working with 5mm (1/4") foam board gives me a lot of rigidity issues. also, to get the staging to be at least lower than the main line would have required a steep grade so I would have had to lower one and raise the other to achieve a reasonable 9even 4%) grade.

This was all getting a bit complicated so I stuck with what I have The trains won't stay on the staging for any length of time. I have a nice box built that gives me a dedicated space for each car and loco so I can quickly get the train off the track and into the box - likewise getting a train on the track is just as easy.

This means that it will just look a bit like double track through the station most of the time - in fact I will probably use it as double track when running trains.

 "The trains won't stay on

I've used similar staging and it works quite well. I had shelves under the layout for the cars to be fiddled on and off scene. I'd arrange a cut of inbound cars on the staging track representing cars left by an over night thru freight then start the operating session and end it when all the outbound  cars were placed on the staging  for the next night's freight to pick up......DaveB

Reflection

David:

I agree that reflecting on choices may lead back to the start and helps emphasis your decisions. Given your goals I understand this as well.  The idea of a fiddle yard at the from of the layout makes sense especially if you can control the distant turnouts remotely. I'm sure you will find a way to work with the turn back end loops. 

Hawaii is special but remote. My daughter spent last semester in the UK as part of her university studies abroad. It's too bad that my wife and I could not visit her as money is tight enough and the 1:48 railway struggles as well! We are not on Oahu (Honolulu) and have lived on the "Big Island" of Hawaii for nearly 25 years. It is very rural and relatively new geologically so there are no white sandy beaches on our coast. It is a good place to raise kids but both of mine are now far away pursuing their dreams. 

Don't be discouraged if you post an idea or question. Summer keeps a lot of people away from the hobby and the beginning of the month is flooded with MRH magazine posts so things get lost. I'm sure that a lot of people, myself included, navigate to "My Recent Posts" as a way to filter down to favorite topics or blogs so new posts or threads get second fiddle as time permits. Please do keep posting your progress. I have not seen many use foamcore for layouts despite the MR project layout a few years ago (many years?!). 

Neil E

LAYOUT

I am looking at your plans but don't see anything about the size of the layout, I see that there are six block so what are the size of each block. Are we talking about 2 foot by three feet or two foot by four feet?

Mike

14' x 2' with the ends at 2'

Total length is 14' , width is  2' with the ends at 2' 8" to accommodate a 15" curve. the blocks are the individual boards which are made from A1 foam board so they are 33" across and 24" deep.

Shift staging to the right?

Do you have any desire to accommodate a second operator? If so, think about where you and s/he would sit. It might be possible to use curved turnouts for the lead into Webster from the right turnback curve, thereby shifting the Webster staging to the right somewhat. This would allow a second person to sit or stand to the left, to clearly see the industries in back and work them while you are running the main.

Chris

Rigidity issues with foamboard.

Hi David, 

have been watching but had missed this comment 

Let's see if we can fix these rigidity issues for you. Before you go too much further is it possible for you to glue another foamcore layer under the first layer?

Or perhaps a better approach may be to glue a dual-layer foamcore laminate that mirrors your module pieces and then glue you module pieces to the top of the dual-layer foamcore laminate. Where a single layer might warp to match you base boards a dual-layer foamcore laminate WILL stay flat and not warp.  

I have a dual-layer foamcore layout that was built back in 2005 that has been dimensionally stable and not warped since built. 

There are a couple of tricks to building ths foamcore laminate using straight PVA glue. 

• First you need a sturdy flat surface large enough for your module piece,
• then apply a THIN screed of PVA to one of the sheets only as shown in PIC 3 about 1/2 way down at http://forum.g/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44195 An old piece of card or styrene will do as a screed, it doesn't have to be fancy, just be rigid enough to spread the glue without bending.
• Place the second sheet on top of the first carefully - CAUTION - You have only got one shot at this because the glue will grab almost immediately and it will be difficult if not impossible to re-align the sheets.
• Evenly weight down the top sheet across all the surface with old magazines, books etc. The aim here is to get enough weight on the top sheet to stop it from warping. Don't be afraid to overweight here. You are safe provided that the weight doesn't push through the top surface. The trick here is even loading across the whole surface rather than a concentrated point loading at only a couple of locations
• Leave for 24/48 hours to ensure that the glue between the layer was fully cured.
• Build you next piece of foamcore laminate.

When weighting you layout modules with track attached, build a base layer up to just above rail height as close to the tracks as you can. Then lay your weights over the top of this bridging level. This applies the weight evenly across the surface and does not load up the surface directly where the tracks are. Add more than enough weight to ensure your warps are pushed flat against the lower level foam core. When it looks flat, add some more weight just to be sure. This should maximise your chances of pulling your modules flat again.

Hopefully this might get you back "on the flat" and cure your warping woes, 

Operations

You started your description of your layout by listing your engines.  Did you do that because the primary thing you wan to to do is to run trains and operations are secondary?   Different goals mean a different design.

What trains do you want to run?

Why do you have a turntable if all you have are diesels?

Why do you want a yard in the middle with staging on either end (more or less what the plan is)?

What is the purpose of the layout?

Is it a mainline "division point"? (kinda small for that)

Is it a branch?  Is ith the junction with the main or is it the end of the branch?

Just a few questions to spur some thoughts about what the layout does which will provide insight into what you want the track to look like.  There are no wrong answers.  There may be gaps between the answers and your plan.

Wow - lots of questions.I

Wow - lots of questions.

I listed the engines to show that the tight curves wasn't a problem.

I have a turntable for two reasons. It is an expensive ($500)  Heljan/Walthers DCC operated one so I didn't want it languishing in a box as it did on my last layout. Secondly - who doesn't turn diesels. When did you ever see one running backwards - not often I bet.I have an F3A - can't run that backwards.The B&M send a freight in every day behind an RS-3 - they won't accept it running backwards to Boston, and so on.

Doesn't everyone have a yard in the middle and staging at each end? It means that I can run trains to other places rather just round and back.

The purpose. I have explained this on a few occasions. Sunset is an invented town halfway between Hartford CT and Boston MA (about where Worcester is in reality). It provides a quicker route between the two cities than the normal more northerly one. As such it did well in the 1900-1940s but has run down a bit since. It runs a way freight a day in each direction and the B&M use it as a quick route for one freight a day to Hartford plus a way freight into Sunset and back. The freight traffic is just enough so they only need a small yard. The New Haven runs a once a day each way Budd RDC between Hartford and Boston since the S&NE stopped its own passenger traffic. Is that enough?

It might be too small to be real but its all I have. 

The turntable

      Hi David, Here in the US they kept turntables at some locations for quite a while after the steam locos were gone. I recall a beautiful scene of the light streaming thru the roundhouse windows onto Southern Pacific diesels parked in the stalls at Watsonville jct.  Generally diesels were run in multiples so they did not need turning but some spots had wye tracks in case one needed to be turned. I'd use a turntable and round house for diesels if I was modeling a scene where it makes sense. The layout I'm working on now was once an electric interurban line so it has a car barn accessed by multiple spur tracks instead of a round house and turntable......DaveB

Options

Actually all the time. It is very common to run locals with one engine and they are commonly turns so they would operate out in one direction and back the other. Road power was normally more than 1 unit so they would put a pair of back to back units if required.  You don't see many pictures because its not photogenic so people prefer to take pictures when the engine is turned "right".　

You can, but that isn't that common. The classic example was the PRR used a BP-20 (a six axle sharknose Baldwin streamlined engine) on a local during the day so it operated backwards for part of its trip. I agree that that isn't hat common.　

Why? Railroads ran one unit trains all the time. The whole purpose of the design of a road switcher was to allow it operate in both directions equally well. 　

Not really. I don't. Its also a matter of how you conceive of the arrangement. If you have a loop and put the yard in the middle of one side and the staging in the middle of the other, then you have one town with a short run on either end. If you push the yard to one end of the layout and push the staging on the other side of the loop to the same end, then you have a yard with one short run and one a bit longer run. Sometimes even a slightly longer run can be leveraged into a scenic or operational possibility.　

So that's about 100 miles and since you say its quicker, then that means its only one crew district long. A crew will get on a SNE train at Hartford and run it to Boston, one crew, and vice versa.　

The operation part. Caveat is that you can do whatever you want. Its your railroad, you get to choose the back story.　

From the perspective of the prototype, there really wouldn't need to be a yard at a town in the middle. The yard would probably be at either end where it would receive the interchange. Based on your description of the operation, I would have assumed that the F3 would be on the through freight because they are horrible as switch or local engines, the RS3 would be on the local because that is exactly what they were designed for a "road switcher" (what the RS in RS3 means) and the SW7 would be in the yard. So how would I get a yard in the middle?　

I would take the lead coming out of the yard on the right side and bend it around the blob on the right end, and then go to a switching area behind the staging tracks, forming a branch line. I would make the main and the staging go down 2 inches and the branch go up 2 inches so there is vertical separation between the staging tracks and the town at the end of the branch. Even better would be to make staging go up and the branch go down, but you don't have room to do that. Making the branch go down would let it become a seaport which is visually cooler. and you could make the town a former helper terminal for the grade in either direction, justifying the turntable.　

With the branch the operation changes. The through freights, one powered by an RS3 and the other by the F3 operate around the loop, from staging thru the yard to staging, one in each direction. The yard becomes a branchline junction. The thru freights set out and pick up blocks of cars to and from the branch. The SW7 switches up the cars , works the industries around the junction and then runs up the branch as the local, switching industries on the branch. It comes back down the branch switches up the outbound cars which the freights will pick up the next time they pass through. Put a paper mill and cranberry cannery at the end of the branch and then a couple times a year the railroad runs a special up the branch for the employees of the mill and cannery and then the last 2 weeks of every October is "Cranberry Daze" where the RDC runs multiple a trips a day from both Hartford and Boston up to the cranberry festival at the town at the end of the branch. All the engines are doing what they are supposed to be doing, there is a reason for the yard, the operation is consistent and there is opportunity for "extra business".　

The turntable. Right now no real need for it in my scenario. I would put in a lumber yard that gets boxcars of lumber that need to be opened from one side only so they have to be turned to put the right side next to the loading dock. Then I would have a once a week or so coal or wood chip train up to the papermill (pulled by the F3) It would head up the branch the loads, back down the branch with the empties, turn the engine and then return to staging facing "forward".

You asked for feedback.  Got some.

Yeah I can see that...

Hi Dave, Dave and all,

Yeah I can see that operating an F3 blunt-end leading for any distance would be a real pain in the neck 

I like some of your ideas but

I like some of your ideas but I want to stay with the theoretical midway between the ends. Let us extend the scenario to say that as the business fell of in the 20s and 30s, SNE slowly reduced their facilities ate the NH and BM ends of their track and got agreements to use the other road's facilities. This would explain why there is the turntable at Sunset (legacy of steam days when they ran a bevy of 2-6-0 moguls - we had some of them - Bachmann but disposed of the, to get the diesels .

"I would take the lead coming out of the yard on the right side and bend it around the blob on the right end, and then go to a switching area behind the staging tracks, forming a branch line." 

The problem with this is that the boards are restricted to 33" at the widest part (in the blobs) so the radius of the existing track is 15". This is why we have gone from 2-6-0 s to 8 wheeled diesels. To get a branch line to curve in from the end of the Sunset run-around would mean me using approaching 12" radius. I would not want to do this unless I employed am 0-4-0 yard diesel and there is no budget or desire to go that way.

Thanks for the input.