Help with figuring out a layout
Would anyone have any ideas for my personal layout? Now, I'm not asking for you to decide what my layout should be, I just want some ideas. Made the mistake before of not clarifying, and got the lecture about It's your layout, Do what you want! That's the thing, I have the ideas of doing a freelanced layout based on the CSX operations in North Florida, mainly focusing on switching,with a possible through-train on the mainline, but I have drawn a blank for the industries.
If it would help, I know NE Florida has almost every industry (with the exception of farming and mining) and has a great variety of incoming trafic.
Here's the set-in-stone for the layout
- It will be in 1 bay enclosed from a 2-bay garage atached to the house
- It will use an MRC Prodidgy squared DCC system
- It will be very likely to include at least 2 trains operating (as to allow my friend to join in on operations)
- As mentioned, it will be freelanced, based on industrial traffic in Jacksonville, FL (close to where I live)
I'm not wanting you to build my layout for me, I just want some ideas to kick around.
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One way to determine the answer
One way to determine the answer is to focus the layout design on that part of the hobby that most interests you.
Do you like industrial switching? The focus your layout design on that part.
Do you like mainine running - then design the layout to have lots of mainline run and leave out things like a space-eating yard.
Like yard operation? The focus your layout design on having a really fun-to-operate yard.
So what area floats your boat? Don't know the answer? Take the next two months and get yourself invited to as many layout op sessions as you can and try each.
Believe me, once you have some real operating experience under your belt, you'll be in a much better position to determine your layout focus and from that the design will almost fall out onto the paper.
Joe Fugate
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine
Step one is to look at the landscape your building on
The best thing for you to do is get some Information about the Railroad system in the state of Florida or at least the area that the main line runs through and find some photos of the landscape.
What is used under the Rails to support the track wood or Concrete ties and in areas like swamp lands & Coastal sandy areas what Ballast structure is needed. You need to find out what businesses and industries are available in Model and structure forms from different Hobby manufacturers Then design your railroad around this and also find out what a couple of the yards near the ocean and Harbors in Florida look like.
There should be more than enough container operation & transportation to build a nice operation in your space.
This gives you one or 2 Ideas as well as what Joe mentioned. Take a couple months to discover your options model railroading isn't a race it's going to be your hobby and formed around what you like.
Dan
Rio Grande Dan
Well.......
Well, the main problem is this: I have been trying to figure out what industries to build for a while (close to 3 years) everything else has been planed otherwise. Now, I know that there's at least 1 cerial-box manufacturer in Jacksonville I would like to replicate (I know about it because my father worked there back in the 70's and 80's before he became a fire fighter) and I also know that, in Greencove Springs, a small town South of Jacksonville and North of St.Augustine, there's an industrial complex with many industries, and a railroad museum (I'm a member) as well as a military museum. I know that the park, and the docks across the highway all use to belong to the U.S. Navy, and they had railroad tracks running through the base for supplys (I frequently visit the restraunt that has areal-view photos dating from WW II-about the early 80's).
I also know that, on old Highway 301, in Baldwin, FL, CSX has a large railyard, but there's not a lot of industrys there. I have been searching on Google Earth for satalite immages of the area, but unless I know the specific industry, it won't show me anything about the buildings.
I have given thought to a harbor with an intermodal terminal, but the relitively high expense with the required equipment has sort of scared me off.
Well, how about these industries: Pulp-wood and paper processing, and a mysterious (to me) mineral called Potash, used to make soap? It's a start, and I have seen some Potash quaries (all of the side of the mountain between it and the highway) and I know, in North Florida, paper production and pulp-wood harvesting are huge chunks of the economy. No tourism, though as the only sights worth seeing are at St. Augustine, unless if yo9u like football, then you have (former) Altel Stadium
I'll keep researching, and thinking about the subject,though. It does help that school lets out in a few weeks, so I can concentrate more on the subject. (I'm a highschool freshman)
Based on your geography
Have you considered modeling the Appalachicola Northern (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN_Railway)? Lots of industrial swithcing in Port St. Joe, good interchange with the CSX, and some available already painted equipment in both HO and N scale. Doubly so if you buy some G&W locos and strip the lettering to redo in AN.
Philip H. Chief Everything Officer Baton Rouge Southern Railroad, Mount Rainier Div.
Chicken before the Egg
CSX-
If you take a look at my signature and follow through a few of my older blog posts you will see I was in not a dissimilar situation to you about a year and a half ago. I had an idea of what I wanted to model (I wanted to model a proto-freelance industrial switching railroad in New York, you want to model a proto-freelance version of the CSX in NE Florida) and I spent TONS of time in the beginning researching industries when I should have concentrated more of my time on getting benchwork built and track laid down.
My advice would be to take the space you have available ( you figured this out way quicker than I did, kudos) and work out a track plan and start building the benchwork and laying down track even if only temporarily (caulk is great for this). Industries (especially modern ones) have a very similar look to them: usually they are steel structures with an access door or two or an open siding for unloading bulk materials. Figure out a track plan with a space for Industry #1, #2, etc. for now and fill in the blanks later.
On my layout EVERY single industry has changed from my original plan with only one exception and in no way has this made me do extra work or start over from scratch. My $.02 (and it is only that, there are far more experienced model railroaders on this board than I) is get the benchwork up and track down to see if you even like the plan that you've envisioned.
I hope this helps!
~rb
~Rich
The Greenpoint Dock and Transfer Company Comes to Connecticut
If you haven't operated a layout before, you need to put some
track down and run some trains to see what you like best. Expect the first layout to be a "chain saw". Your space may define the benchwork, but the layout of the tracks will probably not be the way you want it the first time you build it. You will probably find places where it would work better with the track laid out differently. You may even want to use mock ups for all of your industries to start with. That way, if a track arraingement doesn't work very well, you don't have a kit that you have spent a lot of time and money on that is in the way of track changes.
You can look at track plans until your "eyes hurt", but you probably won't see everything until you actually get the track down and run some trains. As you run the trains and work the industries, you will find ways to improve the track plan or specific problems that you may not have answers to. Those problems can then be posted here as specific questions that will be more focused and easier to answer.
It has 198 pages as I write this reply, so it may be even bigger by the time you can read it, but read or skim through the blog "Tidewater Railroad" by Charley. He puts down his track and puts in industries, but doesn't ballast until after the new construction has been operated on for a few weeks. Much of his layout has been taken up and redone with industries moved around to make it operate better. When it finally operates the way he wants it to, he then puts in the ballast to make things "permanent."
track first
I add my support to the track first side. You won't know if you prefer running or switching until you do some. Operations are a way to run layouts - not a pre-requisite - and require some experience to plan for.
Trying to model a prototype is great until you recognize how small a piece of reality your layout will represent. If your space is 18X10 feet (half a garage) then the perimeter is less than a mile in HO. The largest home layouts don't represent much of the prototype. Focus on what you want to do and get the details later.
On my recent switching layout I had no idea what two industries did - they took two boxcars a session - that's all I needed -
Another consideration is cost. If you plan a master layout the cost may stop you from building. Start with something simple and learn the mechanical and the imaging as you build.
Artarms
how would clutter come into play?
Well, I sort of have a confession to make: the Garage is not exactly readily avalable right now, it's flooded with a sea of boxes and knick-knacks and other stuff from wall to wall. My parents assured me, however, that we will clean it out this summer, after school let's out, and have a huge gearge sale. After that, we will buy the lumber and drywall to build a semi-perminant wall,effectively cutting the garage in half.
I sort of have some room for a test layout,though. In my bedroom, I have a 1x6-foot piece of wood from who knows where that I turned into a layout (actually, it's some track nailed to the board so I can display my locomotives, with little running.) Unfortunately, almost all of my track (turnouts included) are seccond-hand , and doesn't offer reliability in the way of eather electrical operations or at an actual operating stand-point (The Model Power GP-20 likes it,though) all on sort of poor planing, or due to my lack of knowledge on how to solder. I tried soldering with a "Cold Heat" soldering iron (You know, thay had the Info-mertials for them a while back) and it's not spectacular, other than the time I set some flex-track on fire. That's another story.
I'll try to clear out my back room and "try on" the different types of layouts, like I have been advised. I can't really visit anyone else's layout,though. The only one I know of is the trainset loop at the Hobby World close to where I live. I'll give it a shot, and don't worry, I'm not ging to solder track on the carpet, and I'll buy all new track for the loyout when I get benchwork done.
CSX, what town are you in?
Joe Fugate
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine
Make some train buddies
OK, you made me laugh with that one. Here is one other suggestion I can offer: join the National Model Railraod Association. Go on their website (www.nmra.org) and join up with their 6 month trail membership for $9.99. Once you do that then call their offices and ask for the contact information for the president of your division (this is the local "branch" of the NMRA and the only part you will really deal with) and reach out to them and explain what you are doing. If your experience is anything like mine they will jump on the opportunity to help you out.
I'm 33 years old and the members around here were thrilled to meet someone my age (let alone yours) with an interest in the hobby and have gone out of their way to keep me invovled. Experience with the NMRA will vary but I think it's worth a try. If they ahve any brains in your division they will fall over themselves trying to help you out as there is the constant drumbeat in this hobby about the "graying" of those invovled. If they don't offer you all the time and assistance they can then they can't complain anymore! For me, one afternoon's worth of my time and I was able to get myself invovled with a local operating group that meets every month at various layouts in the area.
Now let me put on my responsible hat for a moment. I somehow became a parent recently (well, I know EXACTLY how but that is a different story) so I feel obligated to say this: do your Mom and Dad a favor and don't go running off into people's homes you don't know all by yourself. Bring a friend along or something. I will now step off of my soapbox.
In the end, I've found you learn much more and more quickly face to face than you can over the internet or working by yourself. There is plenty to be had here in terms of experience and knowledge so take some time to look around.
~rb
~Rich
The Greenpoint Dock and Transfer Company Comes to Connecticut