Not all PA

Adapt a line

I would suggest adapting part of a real railroad as yours.  Pick a subdivison of the RDG, CNJ, LV or LNE and say that it remained independent or split off in the bankruptcy of 1892.  And then model that as your railroad.

That will give you towns, routes and traffic.

" adapting part of a real

or just model a real railroad in the area and era you are interested in. Then all historical decisions are made so you can move on to construction. A compressed real line will look at least as realistic as a fictional line or fictional  alternate history of a real line and be less work to design with less chance it comes out looking wrong. The above mentioned Ma and Pa would certainly be worth considering as it was quite model able even in the diesel age, and was well documented so easier to research than many more obscure branch lines .....DaveB

Thank you!

Thanks for all the suggestions! I like the idea of the Ma & PA or adapting a line, however, if I "copy/adapt" a line I have to copy every detail of it or it isn't "right" to me; that's just the way I am. I will have to consider all my options. I'm thinking I will just go John Allen on the whole thing; make my own railroad with my favorite scenes and name my own towns and railroad, etc. I will keep you all updated.Thanks!

Nathan Kline

" if I "copy/adapt" a line I

     The success of freelancing depends on one's knowledge of railroading, geography,era/history, etc. If you know what a given layout should look like then freelancing works great if not it's usually  pretty easy to tell......DaveB

Knowledge

"The success of freelancing depends on one's knowledge of railroading, geography,era/history, etc. If you know what a given layout should look like then freelancing works great if not it's usually  pretty easy to tell......DaveB"

Hi Dave,

I would say I'm pretty knowledgeable when it comes to railroading and era/history. As I said, I think I'll go John Allen on the whole thing I just need a plan. The era would be 1920's to the 1950's. I have a list of LDE's and I have an idea of the type of locos I would like to use at the moment...a Doodlebug, an 0-6-0, a modern 4-4-0, a 4-6-0, 2-8-0's, a 2-8-4, and a 4-8-2 which spans a pretty wide era, however, the premise is that it was all purchased second hand and rebuilt in the railroad's shops. The problem is I'm limited, at the moment, to a spare 10'x12' apartment bedroom so it will have to be a multi deck design. I have a copy of Tony Koester's book on multi deck railroad building somewhere and I think I have a copy of track planning for realistic operation somewhere also. I can post my list of LDE's here which, again, I won't be able to incorporate them all, or at least not to the extent I would like at first due to space restrictions. All food for thought for now.

LDE's...
*2 Level w/ Helix to Upper Level (Hidden In Tunnel)
*Mountain/Forest Scenery
*Terminal w/ Enginehouse/Roundhouse & Yard
*Oil Depot
*Fuel Oil Dealer
*Coal Dealer
*Feed Mill
*Brewery
*Coal Mine
*Livestock Yard/Grain Silos/Farm
*Logging Branch/Sawmill
*Lumber Yard
*Bridges/Trestles
*Interchange Yard

Operations...
*Passenger/Mail Trains
*Locals
*Turns
 

More Info on Space and Such

I've been reading this thread and have a few questions on space and equipment to be operated.  Ignoring the evident confusion between LDEs  and Givens & Druthers (these terms do not have the same meaning), a few questions to help clarify things:

Within the 10 x 12 space where is the door? Can it be removed or simply left open?

Is there a closet in the room?  What size is the closet? Can the door be removed or left open? 

On the passenger cars, what length are they? That is, 85 ft., 72 ft, or ??? 

BTW, in order to get a multi-deck RR in this space bench work is going to be tricky in a few places so be prepared for some interesting construction challenges.

Thanks

Rick

10 by 12 space

That's pretty small to fit in all those features in HO scale. In N scale it would be possible but still pretty crowded. A helix takes up a large percentage of area in a room that size so I'd probably just go with one level and build a nice engine terminal with adjoining double ended yard wrapping around the room and all the mountains and mainline scenery left to imagination. A few local industries for switching would complete the trackwork. Trains could be assembled and sent out of town and received and switched in the yard which along with the engine terminal and industrial switching should give plenty of operations. If more space became available later these parts could be incorporated into a new layout with more mainline and scenery....DaveB 

Space

"I've been reading this thread and have a few questions on space and equipment to be operated.  Ignoring the evident confusion between LDEs  and Givens & Druthers (these terms do not have the same meaning), a few questions to help clarify things:

Re: 10 by 12 space

"That's pretty small to fit in all those features in HO scale. In N scale it would be possible but still pretty crowded. A helix takes up a large percentage of area in a room that size so I'd probably just go with one level and build a nice engine terminal with adjoining double ended yard wrapping around the room and all the mountains and mainline scenery left to imagination. A few local industries for switching would complete the trackwork. Trains could be assembled and sent out of town and received and switched in the yard which along with the engine terminal and industrial switching should give plenty of operations. If more space became available later these parts could be incorporated into a new layout with more mainline and scenery....DaveB"

Dave,

Yes, it is a small space to fit all those features in but they're just ideas. I realize I'll have to stick with a single level walk in or around the walls type layout. I like your idea for operations. Luckily I'm a member of some local train clubs and can run trains there until I can get more real estate for a layout. Yes, the layout could be salvaged and incorporated into a bigger layout as more space becomes available.

Nathan

Some Ideas

Nathan

I've did a few what I'll call 'proof of concept' multi-deck designs to fit your space and while it is possible the helices and other turn-back loops are so dominate that I'm afraid you'll loose too much from your industry and train goals to be a viable.  But, an around the room design would seem to optimize things and be much easier to build. 

That being said, I did find two designs to look at on MRs layout data base that seem interesting:

Doswell Junction

Waterbury Branch

Each are 10 x 13, but look relatively easy to modify to fit the space.

Rick

Re: Some ideas

"I've did a few what I'll call 'proof of concept' multi-deck designs to fit your space and while it is possible the helices and other turn-back loops are so dominate that I'm afraid you'll loose too much from your industry and train goals to be a viable.  But, an around the room design would seem to optimize things and be much easier to build. 

Re: MR Plans

"I've did a few what I'll call 'proof of concept' multi-deck designs to fit your space and while it is possible the helices and other turn-back loops are so dominate that I'm afraid you'll loose too much from your industry and train goals to be a viable.  But, an around the room design would seem to optimize things and be much easier to build. 

That being said, I did find two designs to look at on MRs layout data base that seem interesting:

Doswell Junction

Waterbury Branch

Each are 10 x 13, but look relatively easy to modify to fit the space.

Rick"

Hi Rick,

I took a look at both of the plans and I really like how the make use of the space and pack alot of "bang for your buck" into them. My only concern is placement of the door opening in the bedroom apartment. I may have a plan for an HOn3 EBT style layout with the drawing of the room that I can try and upload here to give you a better idea of what  I have to work with.

Nathan

Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain Railroad and Coal Company

Try looking up the Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain Railroad and Coal Company.  I think this railroad will do exactly what you are looking for and in the correct time period.

Plan showing room

Hi Rick,

Here is the plan showing the size of the room. At the bottom left 6" from the left wall is where the door opening begins and is approx. 30" wide. Along the wall with the door opening is the closet with sliding doors which is why the layout is 2' away from the wall/closet at that area.

Nathan

EBT Concept

Nathan

Real good job so far on the design.  BTW, I always enjoyed visiting the EBT years ago,  very fascinating place.

There are few places you might want to fiddle with a bit more - there are 4 tail tracks that look like they could benefit from a few more inches.  One is near the turntable, two are on the 10 ft vertical section (yard leads ?) and the other is the end of the wye.  The wye tail track can be made longer with a drop leaf section that is hinged and folds down when not in use.  This would give you 3 feet or so additional length there and make it easier to turn trains.

You might have to resort to a curved turnout approaching the turntable/yard to get some more track length in this area.  I don't know if there are curved turnouts in HOn3, but it might be worth looking into. 

Rick

Re: EBT Concept

"Nathan

Real good job so far on the design.  BTW, I always enjoyed visiting the EBT years ago,  very fascinating place.

There are few places you might want to fiddle with a bit more - there are 4 tail tracks that look like they could benefit from a few more inches.  One is near the turntable, two are on the 10 ft vertical section (yard leads ?) and the other is the end of the wye.  The wye tail track can be made longer with a drop leaf section that is hinged and folds down when not in use.  This would give you 3 feet or so additional length there and make it easier to turn trains."

You might have to resort to a curved turnout approaching the turntable/yard to get some more track length in this area.  I don't know if there are curved turnouts in HOn3, but it might be worth looking into. 

Rick

Hi Rick,

Thanks! I decided to hold off on EBT in HOn3 for now. At one point I had 4 or 5 of the Hallmark Mikes but needed to sell them. I have an M-1 awaiting a repaint and sound install, a Peach Creek shops caboose, a Hallmark #20 business car and various F&C kits of boxcars, tank cars, two bay hoppers, and passenger cars with David Hoffman detail kits as well as about 50-60 Blackstone herald and data only RTR hoppers. I also have all of the Whiteground Orby shops and yard building kits. The F&C and Whiteground kits are very intimidating to me, I just opened the box and looked at all the parts and closed the box, and since I had a stroke in January that affected my left side (especially my arm and hand) I don't think I'll ever be able to build them. I decided to go back to HO standard gauge for now because there's a ton of RTR and easy to build kit and more room for sound. If I go back to EBT in HOn3 I'll have to pay someone to build all the kits for me and install the sound. I fell in love with the EBT the first time I visited with my dad, it's an amazing step back in time and it's a shame it's not running anymore. I went to the last fall spectacular with my dad and my wife in 2011 and my wife was going to buy me a ticket to be engineer for an hour for the next year but 2011 was the last year they ran. :-(

Thanks for the tips on improving the EBT concept but I'm going to trash that plan since I'm going freelance standard gauge. I came up with that plan July of last year. I just uploaded it to show the the way the room is laid out and the way the benchwork could possibly be configured. Where the station and town and the mine on the other side are there could be a helix to a second level but I'll have to try and start sketching again and see what can fit.

Nathan

Clarity

Nathan

Sorry for misunderstanding your intent and even more sorry to learn of your stroke.  I remember the fall spectaculars at EBT, used to take my son when he was young to these and always had a blast.  But moving on to the design concept. You posting does give me some important dimension bounds and some food for thought.  I'll play around with the space, see what I can come up with and post them here. Mayhap it will move things along for you.

BTW, I understand your qualms about the F&C kits - got 5 or so of these on hand and nor sure if I'm ready to take these on quite yet.

Rick

Concept Idea

Nathan

Below is a concept based upon the C&O's Loup Creek Branch out of Thurmond WV and in part derived from a like plan in MR. The curve radii on the branch would be around 21 in and work well with 2-8-0, 4-6-0, 2-6-6-2 and a doodlebug.  The mainline radii is at least 26 in and would allow full size passenger cars and larger locos.  There are helix kits on the market, so these could be used making it a bit esasier to build. The upper deck (not designed) would have several mines and other industry.  It also looks like a wye could be included too.

Rick

 

Re: Clarity

Check out the Aberdeen and Rockfish in Eastern North Carolina

Here is a link to the web site: http://www.aberdeen-rockfish.com/

Also, Model Railroader did an article on A Railroad You Can Model on the A&R in the late 60s I think.

Neat shortline railroad.

Bill Michael

EBT Standard gauge

Actually the EBT as standard gauge is a legitimate option.    The EBT looked at standard gauging at least once and GE floated out two proposals to dieselize the road (once with 44 tonners and once with 70 tonners).

It has a variety of industries (ore, clay, coal, lumber), a full shop facility and in the 1950's was a railhead for the construction of the PA turnpike so hauled asphalt and road building supplies .  About the only stretch would be to make it a bridge line.

Re: Concept Idea

"Below is a concept based upon the C&O's Loup Creek Branch out of Thurmond WV and in part derived from a like plan in MR. The curve radii on the branch would be around 21 in and work well with 2-8-0, 4-6-0, 2-6-6-2 and a doodlebug. The mainline radii is at least 26 in and would allow full size passenger cars and larger locos.  There are helix kits on the market, so these could be used making it a bit esasier to build. The upper deck (not designed) would have several mines and other industry.  It also looks like a wye could be included too.

Rick"

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the concept! I'll have to expand on that when I get a chance. I've been thinking that I could do this with HOn3 Blackstone RTR unlettered equipment as well. More food for thought...

Nathan

Re: Concept Idea

"Below is a concept based upon the C&O's Loup Creek Branch out of Thurmond WV and in part derived from a like plan in MR. The curve radii on the branch would be around 21 in and work well with 2-8-0, 4-6-0, 2-6-6-2 and a doodlebug.  The mainline radii is at least 26 in and would allow full size passenger cars and larger locos.  There are helix kits on the market, so these could be used making it a bit esasier to build. The upper deck (not designed) would have several mines and other industry.  It also looks like a wye could be included too.

Rick"

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the concept idea. I will have to expand on that as soon as I can get some graph paper.

Nathan