good question

Hi Jim.

After reading your post I reviewed some articles I keep in a binder on "boxcars".  There is a great series of articles that were published in Railmodel Journal from 2000-2002 called "IPD, Railbox & Other X Post Cars From The Box Car Boom Of The 70's" by Jim Eager.  The FMC section I have (I don't have all of the articles) show examples of cars with both types of doors.  More importantly, Eager has a blurb in the caption for SP 241718 that says "Espee rostered 4,911 cars for lumber and paper service in classes B-70-64..., B-70-67..., B-70-73..., B-70-74..., B-70-77..., and B-70-78....  Both Youngstown and Superior doors were used..."  All the classes mentioned are double door FMC plate C (standard height) cars.  Also in the caption for SSW 66022 he says the following: "Cotton Belt got 929 double-door 5283's from FMC, equipped with a mix of Youngstown and Superior doors."  I think it's safe to assume that cars were delivered new with both types of doors.  My personal observations lead me to believe that sometimes doors were replaced with different types as the car aged as well.  In all the examples I've seen, the SP replaced Youngstown doors with Superior doors.  I just finished a three-car kitbash of Athearn PS5344 boxcars converting them into 52' SP double-door B-70-84 boxcars.  They were delivered new with Youngstown, but some showed up in later years with Superior doors, so one of my three has the Superior doors.  I hope this info is of a help.  As always, you should consult prototype photos of the specific car you are modeling.  I like http://www.rr-fallenflags.org, and Railroad Picture Archives.NET.

Mike Lozensky

I'm not sure why they were delivered with both types of doors,

but it seems common for a manufacturer to deliver cars with both types of doors used in the same production run.  The other way that the doors change is from repairs made to the car over its service life.  Boxcar doors are heavy.  In the safety class I was given at work in preperation for servicing new refrigerator units in railroad service, the car shop supervisor from BNSF who was teaching about blue flag laws and general safety, pointed out that a plug door on a refrigerator car weighs about 2000 lbs.!

The railroads don't want people using forklifts to open doors on boxcars, but when a customer has a problem with a sticking door, the first thing they call for is a forklift.  When the forklift punches a hole in the door or dents the edge so that it doesn't seal correctly, the car shop will replace the door(s).  When they replace a door, they use whatever is in stock.  They don't deadline a car and leave it out of service because the only doors they have in the shop are of the wrong type.  You might well see a box car with a Superior door on one side and a Youngstown door on the other, or you may see a double door car with one Superior door and one Youngstown door on the same side.

Thanks for the discussion and

Thanks for the discussion and feed back.  It seems to be my observation that earlier dated photo's seem to show mostly, if not exclusively Youngstown doors (those corregated I believe) in the 70's and early 80's but then in the mid to late 1980's suddenly I see a lot more Superior doors on the FMC box cars.  This may be totally conincidental but I used to think that the YT were replaced with Sup because of what I saw in photo's of freight trains, these box cars on Rio Grande freight trains but SP too.

I wonder...

... could it be that SP did a major scrapping project in the late 70s or early 80s that would have left them with a bunch of Superior Doors to use as replacements for damaged Youngstowns?

compiled sp boxcar roster in the works

Jim's question about SP FMC boxcars has prompted me to do something I've been wanting to do for a while.  Over the years I've gathered lots of prototype information.  Most is in the form of books and magazine articles.  My project is to take the roster data from "Southern Pacific Freight Cars Today" by David Casdorph and transcribe it onto an Excel spreadsheet, then I will add in any other information I have on the individual classes, such as type of doors, roof, ends, etc.  Also I have set hyperlinks to websites with pictures of that class.  Finally I plan to add my personal comments as to what detail parts, body shell, parts of body shells, decals, etc. match that class.  This project is for my personal use, but I'm not opposed to posting a link to it for others to use.  Currently I am about 1/2 way thru the B-70- series, and plan to do up through the B-100- series for now.  Eventually I would like to do this for all of the SP roster in the Casdorph book, as I'm a big SP modeler.

Mike

Mike, That sounds like a

Mike,

That sounds like a great resource!  I imagine many of us would find it very helpful!

By the way, I have put together a list of HO models which I had put together to aid myself and other in building a model train roster that consists of models which are a close match to prototypes.  The list was originally just D&RGW equipment for 1960's through about 1990 time frame, but I have added some other roads like SP and BN to it also.  I'll post it in a separate thread.  I welcome input to make corrections or additions btw.

Jim

WP FMC car doors

The Western Pacific had a number of FMC cars; I think all of them had "Youngstown" (corrugated) doors when new.  Now, all of the survivors I see have "Superior" (flat panel) doors instead.  It makes sense that UP would be consistent in its treatment of the former SP/SSW cars as well.  I'm not sure why the change occurred either.

That's the idea behind my

That's the idea behind my list too.  I'm trying to (1) combine all known information, and (2) work out what my "dream roster" is.  As always I would be eager to see your list.  BTW.  I don't know how to post my Excel formatted doccument on this forum, so if anyone knows, let me know.  You can also send me an e-mail for me to reply to with the doccument attatched.

Mike

Rob, I just posted up a list

Rob,

I just posted up a list of HO D&RGW models which are fairly good matches to 1960-1990 era prototypes.  Since the Rio Grande hauled a lot of WP freight cars in the1970's and early 1980's, I wish to beef up the WP end of my roster.  Can you provide a similar list of HO models which match WP prototype cars, especially in the 70's and 80's?

I've got a few now but not many, some of which may be stand-in's only.  For example there are the double plug door 50' box cars made formerly by Details West painted for WP (yellow lettering).  Athearn Genesis single plug door NACC box car and (back on topic) FMC double plug door MDC 50' box cars with Youngstown doors.  I've got two of those MDC cars but I think they are the wrong plate size but otherwise good stand-in's.

As far as the "on-topic" FMC

As far as the "on-topic" FMC cars go, you already noted the Athearn/MDC double-door cars, and the plate issue.  The Details West double-door cars, also now Athearn, aren't especially good stand-ins for any WP prototypes, but the Genesis NACC car isn't bad.

Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel on the WP models list myself, I would suggest joining the WP modelrs group on Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WPModeler/ .  I think at least one WP modeler maintains a list of models that are acceptable stand-ins for WP prototypes.  I don't have the specific link handy anymore, nor did a quick Google search find it, but I'm sure the WP faithful can direct you.

Rob, Thank you for the

Rob,

Thank you for the suggestion.  I'll see about joining the yahoo group for WP.  Been a member or the Rio Grande group for many years.  BTW, I grew up in Davis and Sacramento California and when I was a college student at Sacramento State University in the late 1970's.  I had a roommate (also from Davis) who was from a Western Pacific railroading family - his name was Rich Wall.  Both his father and grandfather worked for the WP and even Rich did a short stint with the WP himself before graduating from college and ending up an insurance salesman.  I'm not sure but he might have even gotten to ride on the fab four F units but I've been out of touch with him for over 10 years now.  Are you the Rob Spangler I remember many years ago featured in MR as a young teen?  I have always enjoyed articles in any magazine with a "modern" western theme.

I'm honestly not sure what the double plug door Details West/Athearn 50' box car is supposed to represent.  I don't think it is correct for SP either.  I've seen photo's of both SP and WP 50 box cars in freight consists which have similar style double plug doors but from all I've read they are different box cars than the model.  To me the MDC is an acceptable stand-in despite the "one off" plate size.

Cheers.

"Are you the Rob Spangler

"Are you the Rob Spangler I remember many years ago featured in MR as a young teen? "

One and the same.

Well hello again Rob, I

Well hello again Rob, I remember that article and the following one as an adult as well. Not to hi-jack this thread but what number layout are you at now? I think I still have the original mag with you as a teen. Some new pics and another article would be cool to see. Great to see that you are still around and involved. 

Steve

Stay Tuned

Steve:

I lost track of the # layout I'm on.  The last one in MR was two layouts (and two house moves) ago.  I have some stuff in the works for MRH; won't be too long now...