Background

Like most on this forum, I have had a lifetime of dabbling in model trains. However, my heritage has predominantly been OO scale  British trains.  On re-entering the hobby a few years ago  I dug out the various boxes of stuff that I had accumulated (including a Hornby Zero One purchased in Singapore in 1980!!) and set about building a layout in a spare bedroom  and promptly made every mistake possible along the way. Fortunately I had also discovered MRH magazine at the same time so at least I knew I had made mistakesJ.

I also happened to purchase a Bachmann GP 38 so that I could compare HO to OO.  In the words of an English writer to MR in June 2000 “Many British models have oversize wheel flanges, poor drive mechanisms, hideously obtrusive tension lock couplers, no fly wheels, and prices which are just an opportunist rip off.”  The purchase of the GP38 confirmed everything in that statement and later purchases of Atlas and Kato locomotives gave new definition to ‘quality running’. As a result of that I switched completely to HO but now had a layout that was a complete mishmash of scales .

When I retired in July last year, I finally had time available to commence a programme of maintenance on our house that included a complete internal refurbishment.  End result, the old layout had to go but negotiations with the landlord identified that a much larger space would now be available.  With refurbishments now complete work has started on the new layout space.

Givens & Druthers

Givens

Scale:                     HO

Road:                     CSX

Era:                        Post Jul 1986

Layout Room: 22 ft x 11.4 ft (Layout room also contains Office area and Workbench)

Staging area: 21 ft x 5ft: 

Single Deck around the wall  58” above floor

Min Turnout  Size:   #6

Design Emphasis:  Operations

Control:                  Digitrax DCC

Loconet

JMRI / Wi Throttle

Benchwork:             Furniture grade Sectional Modules mounted on wall brackets.

Druthers

Min Radius 30”

Layout and staging controlled with interlocked signals & blocks

Location of rolling stock & Locos managed by RFID

Turnout control mix of manual or switch machines as appropriate

Arduino used wherever possible to control servos, signals, RFID readers

JMRI/CATS used for computerised control panels

Layout operable without computer on

CCTV in Staging area

A Sectional Module concept

Given that the new layout room is in a highly visible part of the house, one of my main objectives is for the bench work to appear like furniture quality shelving with minimal visible support.  Additionally, I plan to carry out 95% of the build of each module in my garage where I have an 8ft x 4ft workbench and a healthy array of woodworking equipment.

To meet that objective it is going to be essential that each section/module can be removed and replaced with relatively little effort. This will require some clever design of wiring, data, track and module connections.  My current design planning is for module depths of either 12 or 24’’ and a maximum module length of 6ft. 

Module/benchwork construction will use the Torsion Box concept. The torsion Box concept allows for exceptionally strong  but light weight benches. http://www.core77.com/posts/26334/A-Look-at-Torsion-Boxes

In my case I will use 3” x 1” timber frames with 12mm plywood tops and 1/8” custom wood bottoms. The 3” depth is necessary to allow room for Tortoise or Cobalt  turnout motors

I have been trialling two ideas for support brackets. The first was to use 1.5” x 1/8” steel angle brackets with a central web welded in place.  As can be seen in the photo below, two of these brackets will quite happily support my largest module of 6ft x 2ft. It is planned that a backdrop will be screwed to the vertical arms of the brackets. Consequently the module sections should appear to sit on the wall with no visible means of support.

This works well but given the number of brackets required and the work involved in welding the angle braces, I am now looking at a Mark 2 concept.  The Mk2 version uses standard hardware store double tongued brackets and wall mounts. The major issue is that the brackets are designed to slope back towards the wall. 

To make them level I have made ply infills as can be seen in the second picture.  Again, it is planned that the wall mounts and brackets won’t be visible once the backdrops and modules are in place.  

Test Track

As a preliminary step, I decided to make and install a test track above my new workbench.  This would allow me to continue working on locomotives and rolling stock,  provide a basic switching layout and provide a platform to trial some other ideas for the main layout.

The test track is the full 11.4ft width of the layout room and has 3 parallel tracks. The middle section of the front track can be used as a programming track.  I am hoping that the length will also allow speed matching locos on adjacent tracks.

As can be seen, the test track is simply a piece of 12mm ply 11.4ft x 7.5” with a piece of aluminium U channel along the front edge to provide additional support.  It is supported by 4 of the Mk 2 brackets  and can be removed in one piece. The yellow and black stripe marks the area of the programming track.

I have trialled an idea for routing Bus wires by cutting 3/32” sq slots (saw blade width) along the bottom of the ply.  14 Gauge bus wire is a tight push fit into the slot and the cable has been stripped at 8” intervals to provide solder tabs for track feeders.  In a third slot I have twisted 2 strands of 19 gauge wire together to feed the programming track. 

This trial certainly has raised some pros and cons as follows:

Pros   Keeps bus wiring extremely tidy and out of the way.  Very easy to solder other wires to. Reduced chance of shorting.

Cons  Murphy’s law dictates that something else will need to go where a wire slot is.  8” intervals for solder tabs may not be ideal.

There are bound to be more Ps & Cs along the way but for the moment I feel it will be a good idea for my sectional modules.  In terms of cable connections at module joins I am planning to use these XT 30 connectors from the RC world (they come in 3 different colors are rated at 30amps and cost $4 for 5 pairs) for both track  and accessory bus.

Looks first class

Very nice pictures and excellent explanations of your thought processes. Thanks for sharing your layout with us and I'm really looking forward to following along.

Layout and staging plans

1. Layout Room

The layout room measures 22ft x 11.4ft as shown on the plan below.

I have no intent of removing the window, ranchslider door or entry door as I believe I can work around all of these. Current thinking for the bench work is shown below.

B. Staging

The staging area is a somewhat unusual space that is accessed by small doors on the left hand side of the layout room.The photo and plans below show what I have: 

Its major limitation is a height of only 4ft.However, I plan to build all of the staging track on sectional modules in my workshop.Once operational I plan to have all the turnouts automated and CCTV coverage of the area.

Track Plan

The astute amongst you will notice a distinct lack of track plans.  At this point I intend to challenge the norms and suggest that the track plans don’t exist as yet but instead will be dictated by the givens such as layout room and staging area size and the prime intent of having a layout designed for operations.  I would also like to think that contributors to this forum will be helping to design the track plan.

The even more astute will be asking themselves “Where on earth is the CSX Redwood Sub”    

So here is a question for you... Where in the USA do nearly all of the major railroads come together in the one place?  and remember that this is a proto freelance layout.

I do have a fairly good idea of the track plan for the staging area but it does not show up all that well in my earlier post so here is another go:

Hopefully you can see that trains will enter staging from the right,  turn through 180 degrees and enter one of ten staging tracks.  There is enough room on each of the staging tracks to hold 2 x locos and up to 12 x 53ft cars.  On leaving staging trains should be able to head either east or west into the layout.

In terms of the layout track plan my current thinking suggests that there should be some or all of the following:

1. Single track mainline
2. A yard that includes:
   1. Arrival track
   2. Departure track
   3. Yard lead
   4. Classification tracks x ?
   5. Engine service facility
3. Passing track/s
4. Industry/ies

Looks good so far

Ah Bremner

You have caught my little ploy by assuming I was referring to Sequoia sempervirens.  I could in fact be referring to Redwood Logistics in Illinois or the Dawn Redwood... But I'm not . 

In fact the Redwood reference has a completely different significance and I will leave it undefined to see if anyone is clever enough to work it out.

Redwood

Would it be something as simple as the color and siding of your rolling stock?

DCC Bus

Hi Peter - I will be joining you in retirement at the end of March. So many plans, so little time

Great idea for the cable routing. When I added a DCC power bus to the C&A, I marked out the track positions first and then routed the cable which minimized routing glitches . Possibly a bit late for you now .

Great looking build though and looking forward to progress reports.

Rob Clark
Cornhill & Atherton RR

 "Where in the USA do nearly

Chicago for sure St Louis maybe second? I don't identify either with redwoods though. .......DaveB

@HVT & Dave B

HVT nothing to do with rolling stock  but I like your style of thinking 

Dave B Absolutely correct on the coming together points.  During an all to brief visit to the US last year I was given the chance to watch some action at Vancouver Wa. My most striking memory of that was watching a train of Autoracks pass with every railroad in the US painted on the side of one or more of the cars. It got me to thinking that modelling an area where two or more lines came together would provide an opportunity for trains of many colours.  From an ops perspective if members of your crew wished to bring locos to run it wouldn't matter if they were BNSF, UP or CP as they would fit right in.

As a really big hint, Redwood refers primarily to my geographic location.

@ Rob

Great tip on the routing of the bus cables thanks and no it isn't too late. The first stage of real building will be to get the staging area done. No scenery required but I will need 19 odd switch motors, blocks, detection, possibly RFID and signalling in a space that is quite challenging to work in.

I have been fortunate to retire relatively young following something I planned many years ago. Part of that plan is to spend part of NZ winters travelling to warmer places. First of those trips was last year to the convention at Portland.  We have a lot of family in the UK (Norfolk & Devon) so a trip there will be on the cards at some stage. It would be nice to meet you in person should an opportunity arise

Retirement and Travel

Peter - The Portland Convention was thought about last year, but coincided with my 60th birthday so we didn't go.

It would indeed be nice to meet, so let me know when you have some UK visit plans. Curiously enough we are having a 2 week trip to Devon and Somerset around July time - a beautiful part of the country

Rob.

@Rob

Not sure if UK will happen for us this year or next year but we will most certainly let you know when we are headed your way.

Serendipity

Several folks on this forum have recommended Iain Rice's book "Shelf Layouts for Model Railroads" as one of the best on the market. My copy arrived a couple of days ago and I was most pleased to see that all of the ideas I had thought through for mounting my sectional modules were exactly what Iain was recommending.  Haven't read the whole book yet but what a great read so far. 

I hadn't thought about using a shelf above the layout to mount a lighting valance but that is now definitely on the plan.

I think the bonus of Iains writings are the fact that he is a Brit modeling American HO.  He has very successfully melded the typical Brit 'small layout in a small room' with the American 'large layout in a basement'.  IMHO this could only be done by someone who is intimately familiar with both  modeling styles.

A great book and strongly recommended for anyone in the process of designing or building a layout

Preliminary Progress

Everything involving this layout hinges on the junction between the staging area and the layout room. In essence, the main layout can’t be started until the bulk of the staging area has been installed and tested.  The main reason for that is that there is a substantial steel beam in the staging area that essentially dictates baseboard height in both areas.

Before I started work on any of the staging modules, I decided to insulate and cover the walls behind the staging modules with gib board.  My thinking here is that the gib (and probably the base boards as well) will be painted white to enhance the lighting in this gloomy area as much as possible.  I am hoping to be able to rely mostly on a CCTV camera for ops in the staging area.

So today I have got the insulation and gib installed.  The gib will be painted in the next few days.

First Module underway

I also decided to start building the first staging module.  This one is very short at only about 3ft long but it is the critical interface area between staging and main layout.  Not only does it have six turnouts on it but it also has to fit around a number of obstacles. 

The benefits of being able to work on the modules in the workshop are already showing themselves.  Life is sooo much easier.

I should also mention that all aspects of the layout are drawn up full size in Corel Draw.  This allowed working out the complex shape of the first module on the computer, printing out a template and checking for fit all in a very short time frame.  Similarly, the track work is all drawn up full size so checks for having critical items in the wrong places becomes a lot easier.

I have also reached some key decisions about the staging area.  Given that this area won’t be seen by most, I will be re-using old layout materials as much as possible such as plywood and lumber.  I have also decided to use my stock of Peco SL95/96  #6 turnouts and Code 100 track.  The turnouts will be operated using servos and Tam Valley decoders.  By using Peco vs Fast Tracks #6 turnouts I can gain 32” of staging track length. Similarly, by using Servos rather than Tortoise or Cobalt I can save myself 33mm in baseboard height and put the track height in the layout room at 57”.  Despite these decisions, I am remaining absolutely focused on achieving a prime goal in this area of totally reliable running.

Servo control

I noticed the servo in one of the photos;  I think they're the only way to go given the high price of Tortoi.  But the Tam Valley products,nice as they are, are also pretty dear.  A $2.98 Chinese copy Arduino Uno can control 5 or 6 servos AND panel LEDs AND frog feeders.  The servos (6 for around $6  -  eBay from China, free, if slow - up to 2-3 weeks - shipping) and the associated Darlington Array chips (another $1 or 2) gives you servos and control for under $3 / turnout.  One caveat: some relatively simple Arduino programming required.   What are your control panel plans?

Brownshoe sailor thanks for

Brownshoe sailor thanks for your comments. Can you post more detail on "Darlington Array Chips".  I have been researching turnout control, signalling and occupancy detection for a very long time and have no clearer understanding which of the many choices I will use. 

The location and design of my staging area presents a number of challenges and a larger number of must haves as follows:

1. All turnouts (20 of them) in the staging area must be switchable from the layout room

2. Height limitations preclude the use of either tortoise or cobalt motors. Ergo servos are the only option for control in this area.

3. I will be using JMRI Panel Pro or CATS to control turnouts and signals and show occupancy. The prime display will be at the dispatchers desk.

4. Given 3 above, turnout control, signalling and occupancy detection must be on loco net.

4. The staging area will be monitored by CCTV with a display at the dispatchers desk.

5. The assistant dispatcher will be responsible for moving all trains into and out of staging. Handover points yet to be determined.

6. It would be nice to have a back up switch panel for short sessions without the computer.

From the above, clearly Tortoise and Cobalt can't be used in the staging area. This then suggests that SE8Cs and BDL 168s are out of the picture. Also excluded are Tam Valley Quad pics are excluded ( no Loco Net).

My servo of choice is the HXT 900 from Hobby King at $3 a pop.

I have been looking at RR Cirkits Tower man and Signalman but they don't appear to be able to control turnouts.  However , their BOD 8 s may be a good choice for occupancy.  

To my way of thinking, this leaves 2 options for turnout control and signalling:

1. Tam Valley  Quad LN_S

and the plug in  Signal Board 

2. Arduino control. Thanks to Dr Geoff Bunza's excellent work on this forum,  I have completed a couple of Arduino projects using servos to control turnouts and would love to use this technology to meet my C&C requirements. Ironically, only last night I was put on to an Arduino Loco Net shield on the mrrwa.org site. 

So in answer to your question, I am still not sure which route I will follow but woul love to hear more from anyone who has successfully combined Arduino with JMRI and Loconet

@Peter A Stream of Comments

Hi Peter,

What superb craftsmanship! I wonder whether you missed your calling as furniture designer!

Comments in no particular order:

Bus Wiring--Your routing of bus wires is ingenious. I would caution that over time, you will likely have to account for changes (additions/deletions). Since you are creating individual "troughs" (here they are sometimes called raceways for lots of cables), there is no reason for insulation-- the trough material is the insulation. Adding drop-wires are almost guaranteed not to be universally at your "stripped" sections-- so don't bother. Why not use bare wire?  Also, anticipate that you will have to re-route in the future due to switch machines or other obstacles (ravines, bridges, waterways, turntables, etc. You could try a couple of things: create pockets periodically routed out next to the raceway and loop the bus into and out of the pockets. This gives you additional wire to mess with over time without relaying the entire bus.  If you have seen CATV cable placed on power poles you might notice loops of cable in strategic locations. Another possibility would be for "bumps" of buss wire extending lower down out of the raceway periodically for easy attachment of feeder wires. Which also brings up how you might conceal the feeders, and if you are building sections how will you hide the electrical "joins" between sections regardless of the connectors chosen. Also regarding feeder wires-- You should reasonably consider the somewhat extreme advice that all sections of rail should have their own feeders, as opposed to only each electrical block. I have considered this to be at the "extreme" end of the scale, but it is not completely unreasonable, especially for the staging area that has limited access. Soldering rail to rail over a rail joiner can be made to work-- and I have seen reliable connections made for decades, but if you are a little too quick and don't make a solid join, the oxidation, cracks, dirt and extra flux can disguise and cause problems. I use a combination that has worked for me. If you use more than one feeder per electrical block and use "coil" pick ups (re: RR-Cirkits BOD's) all feeder wires for the same, 1 electrical block must go though the same coil or you will entertain more problems.

Staging-- With regard to the staging area: You should think about future mods (and cleaning) to the staging area and how you will effect them. I would try to work out a way to lock and unlock the staging yard in place for ease of access, and yet leave it mobile. You are already building it on your bench (another superb idea by the way, and one that I am likely to take to heart myself) and then placing it in the eaves. Why not float it in place and lock it in to join it to the rest of the layout. Perhaps even with a removable hinge to swing it close to the access to the area. By the way is there a way to "seal" that area with plastic tarp or otherwise to minimize dust, bugs and debris? If so, do it before installation. Perhaps you don't have those problems in New Zealand?

Turnouts-- I look at turnouts and signaling as 2 separate and integrated issues! I am only considering servos and manual throws for turnout control. The single cheapest way today to control servos is with Arduino's...period. The servo configuration of the decoders in my blog can easily handle the job and be controlled via DCC and JMRI. You can easily add local pushbuttons for non DCC panel control , over-riding DCC control (you can make a small plea for help and get it!) You'll likely want some panel indicators too? If you need turnout switching, there are a number of postings about adding micro-switches to contact the servo arm, if needed. Modelers here in Portland have been using aluminum channel to mount the servos very successfully.

Signaling -- There are 2 places I would point you for signaling for completely different reasons: RR-CirKits and to the Arduini yahoo forum and http://www.modelrailroadcontrolsystems.comwith their cpnode. The latter is a general purpose system built by Seth Neuman and others around an arduino that looks to handle an amazing variety of signaling configurations. Support is through the Yahoo forum with a set of highly skilled and knowledgeable folks who designed and built the signaling system. The former is already known to you, but they warrant special notice. The system and products Dick Bronson provides are very, very good. But even beyond being well made, Dick and his people provide excellent support to the last nit and bit. Dick and Seth are incredibly knowledgeable about signaling systems. Now... if you are not going into a fully signaled layout, and just want a few "turnout" indicators that change aspects with the throw of a switch, much simpler schemes can be built. But RR-Cirkits products can be fully integrated with JMRI (and as I recall can operate stand-alone too) and (my opinion) have better support than most everything out there. Oh yes, one more thing-- they work! And yes, I do use them.

Odd Comment -- Once upon a time in a land 3000 miles away, I built a coffee table layout that actually was a piece of furniture! It occurs to me that you will run into 2 situations others may never encounter -- how do you disguise the sectional "joins" of your layout? (or are the sections only a construction convenience), so you will scenic right across the join lines? Second, given the superb carpentry design (already brilliantly apparent), will you generate the effect of a model display on top of a bureau or elegant table (I mean this in a very positive way) simply from the juxtaposition of the elegant framework next to the layout. Perhaps this is what you want? If not, consider a simple, short "drape" of felt or decorated fabric (even scenic-ed to some extent) that could even be removable, that became the "edge" to the layout? When I built my coffee table layout, I was constantly struck by a similar contrast. The entire top and sides (forming a box) was removable leaving the 24 by 48 inch layout exposed. It's just some food for thought.

OK, this is one modeler's opinion and comments. Likely you will get a few hundred more! I, too, look forward to seeing reports on your progress, particularly how you overcome what may be somewhat unique problems ...with, of course, unique solutions! Have fun! 

Best regards,

Geoff

Diverted Stream

Hi Geoff

Thanks for your, as always, valued contribution. If I may I will respond to your comments in two separate posts. The generic stuff on this one and the automation stuff on a second one.

Bus Wiring

I decided to give this 'trough' idea a go as in the last layout the bus wires were suspended under the bench work and were constantly getting in the way of doing anything. Plus soldering anything to them was a right PITA.  Bare bus wires would be a great option but as I have a supply of insulated cable I plan to use that up first. I am acutely aware that wherever I place a bus wire, at some stage it will be the wrong place.  Two mitigating options:  1. All work on the modules (including staging) will be done in my workshop where I can easily get to either side of the module.  2: I believe that it will be relatively simple to cut an given bus wire, rout a new trough and then rejoin it.

Section Joins

My plan to handle these is to terminate the bus wires at either end of each section with XT 30 connectors.  I will then have a short patch cable that will connect to the next module.  All of the wiring will be hidden under the benchwork and each module will have  a removable MDF "Bottom" so that most of the under layout stuff will be invisible when each module is in place.

Feeders

Yep I routinely use the maxim that every piece of rail has it's own feeder. The only exception I have used to this is short pieces of rail (less than 6") get soldered to the adjoining rail.  However, I am not usually a proponent of soldering sections of rail across joiners as I believe you need to allow for expansion contraction.  Great tip on the occupancy detection feeders going through the same coil.  OD is new to me so I need all the help I can get

Removable Staging

Yep already ahead of you on that one. Staging will be made up of 4 sections,  3 of which will be removable.  The 4 th non removable section is the 270 degree loop at the far end and for practical reasons that will have to be built in place. 10 of the 20 turnouts will be on one section, 3 on another section and 7 on the short section closest to the layout room.  When it is all built installed and tested, I plan to install a shelf about 16" above the staging sections. The bottom of that shelf will be painted white and have led lighting on the underside.  I will then attach some form of curtain to the shelf so that the staging area is sealed off as best I can.

Furniture Display

The fundamental premise that I am working to on this layout is a series of removable sections so the the bulk of layout work can be done in my workshop.  This applies to initial build as well as to ongoing maintenance. The inherent issue with that premise is that there will be joins between sections  While I believe I can keep those joins to less than 1mm wide they will still be visible.

The second premise that I am working to is Iain Rice's railroad on a shelf concept that can fit neatly into any room of a domestic household.  At this stage I am planning on having the layout modules as a middle shelf (albeit 3 inches high) a shelf above that conceals led strip lighting and provides the top part of the "frame" and a much smaller bottom shelf that provides a spot for coffee cups, car cards, pens and other operating paraphenalia. Beneath all of that will be just clear wall with the layout showing no visible means of support.

This classic Lance Mindheim photo explains it best but I plan the top shelf fascia to be much thinner with a much shallower 3rd shelf underneath.
 

The section joins are mostly dictated by other existing elements in the room such as windows and doors so the scenery will run right across section joins and will have to be disguised the best way I can.

Further thoughts on Detection and Turnout Control for Staging

First up apologies for the apparent vacillating going on here but when it comes to integrating JMRI with layout control and occupancy detection it is all new to me and I am learning more and more on a daily basis.

At the risk of repeating myself, the Staging area provides some unique challenges and I am still pretty convinced that it need to be designed as a lock and forget area that is remotely operated using JMRI. (Clearly there will be derailments and maintenance requirements that will demand occasional access).

I have tried to do an assessment of  C&C options as follows:

 
Clicking on the picture will bring up a bigger readable version
Trains arriving back in staging will have to traverse the back of the long wall and then do the big circle through 180 degrees before entering one of 10 staging tracks.

Normally this wouldn't present any problems.  However, as the staging area only has a 4ft ceiling height, it is preferable to physically visit the area as little as possible.  To allow that to happen I need to do a number of things:
1.  Make the track work as bullet proof as possible,

3.  Automate all 20 of the turnouts.
4. Create a panel in JMRI for the staging area to control the turnouts
5. Enable signaling on that same panel to show which position turnouts are set ( physical signals in the staging area are probably not strictly necessary but I am thinking of some unusual options here. More on that later).
6.  Enable occupancy detection on the same panel to show which staging tracks are occupied.  I am looking at creating 10 x staging blocks and 2 more blocks on the long arrival track.

7. Use Panel Pro "Routes"  eg  setting Route 3 would enable a train to enter staging and all the turnouts would be aligned to allow it to enter Staging Track #3

In an ideal world the easiest and best integrated option would be to use Tortoise switch machines on top of the benchwork connected to SE8Cs and BDL168s

My off the wall thought for signalling would be if Route 3 was selected then a line of greens leds would illuminate along the path of Route 3.  Thus looking at the CCTV it would be immediately obvious which staging track is selected and more importantly, visual confirmation that nothing is blocking it.

Folks I have made a number of assumptions in the above Options and I am open to any and all suggestions for achieving the desired outcomes.