What's a good craftsman kit to start with if you've never built one?

One you can afford to screw up.

Seriously, I listened to Doug Foscale's first podcast today and what I got out of that is;

It's better to start with a smaller kit since they are typically less complicated and can be completed in a fairly short period of time.  Smaller kits are also typically less expensive so if you really mess up it's not as much of a loss.

Regardless of the kit chosen, read the instructions completely once.  Then go slow.  Assemble complicated pieces in sub-assemblies and use templates.

Each kit is like a course in kitbuilding and with each kit your skill will improve

Maybe it's been asked before but, what designates a kit as a "craftsman kit"?

I'm not sure there is a defined designation for craftsman kits.  Maybe I'll make one up after I build my first kit? [wink]

There are "craftsman kits" that frequently have a lot of additional details included with the kit compared to a Plasticville kit that is not much more complicated than an old blue box Athearn car kit.  In between are probably some of the Walther's structure kits.

By the way, if you go to a web site from one of MRH sponsors from the ad on the MRH site, the sponsor will be able to track where you came from and it just "proves" how worthwhile it is for a sponsor to use MRH.  You don't need to mention that you saw the ad in MRH or anything like that.

Quick Kits VS Craftsman Kits

quick kits come with a single piece of paper with a photo of each of the 10 steps to assemble the kit and all the parts hanging on sprees and numbered parts & for the most part they snap together or require small amounts of glue and 20 minutes later the model is done except for paint

Craftsman Kits when you open a craftsman kit the first thing you will see most times is a large mass of schematics , Blue prints and detailed drawings. There are also Craftsman Kits the come with no pictures just written instructions with a large bunch of scale lumber in the box and you need to read and build as you read 1 step at a time with both types.

Craftsman kits average 20 to 60 hrs to build depending on the model. You will also find in the box 3 to 10 bags of parts, lumber, Brass, Paper, wood, Plastic, pewter, different sizes of dowels, string, and sheets of high quality clear plastic for windows.

Assembling the craftsman kit:  Now you have found the real world of Model building .

step one-find the parts list for bag #1 empty contents of Bag in flat plastic container so small hinges and micro nails and screws don't get lost. Now Bag #1 contains 62 Pieces check them off to make sure all parts are present.

Step Two- find three pieces of scale lumber 1/32X1/64X 8 inches  with red color on one end. Take two of these and cut 4each 1-3/4 inch long starting from the un painted end from each piece with the red colored end. set aside the 8 pieces in an easy to reach spot and place the two remaining pieces with the red ends back with the as yet un-used parts.

OK you have just finished step 1 of 28 steps on page one of 24 pages and all you have done is cut some supports that once the model is finished you will never see again.

This is a class A craftsman Kit which when complete will be a miniature Replica of the Coaling tower at the engine service yard in Chama New Mexico.

these Craftsman Kits are not hard to build as long as you follow each step one at a time from start to finish take your time and "TAKE YOUR TIME" every step is laid out for you and you just really need to stay alert and don't ever skip a step. All Craftsman Kits come with extra pieces and parts but never count on it because it never fails that you'll loose the one part that there is only one of if your not careful. CARMA is always watching!!

I love building these kits and when your finished you really end up with a fantastic piece to be proud of and display on your railroad for years and years.

Don't allow the Wife or Kids near you or the model while your building or anybody else for that mater it never fails they all need to touch and then you have to drag them out to the barn screaming and crying and empty your 38 into them especially just after you have glued that last piece on and they grab it and shake ti see if you put coal inside the bunker yet, as small doors and ladders fly in all directions. Just kidding about the 38 but you get my drift.

Dan

I know I'm going in reverse, but doing craftsman kits teaches many fundamentals that apply to scratchbuilding.

BTW, when you get around to weathering Thomas, don't forget to change his smile to a frown.

Craftsman kits as basiclaly kits that require the skills of a craftsman to put together well.  So if you don;t have the skills right yet, your first experience might dissuade you because you are in unfamiliar territory.  But don't let that get you down, because you'll find every one after the first simply gets a little better as you get more patient and more understanding about what it takes to put the building together.

I found your "weak attempt at humor" rather funny, actually.

IMHO, Craftsman kits take the guess work out of purchasing materials, planning, and preparing for building a structure/scene from scratch.  In many cases the designer provides you with an assortmant of detail parts you'd need eons to gather individually or make yourself, along with all the raw materials, some even die-cut/laser-cut to size.

But, as founder/moderator of the kitbashing HO structures Yahoo group, I'd be remiss if I didn't say that ANY plastic cheap-o kit can be made into craftsman quality just by taking your time to 1) assemble it well and 2) add a few fine-scale touches.

Take the classic Atlas shanty, for example.  The original kit came with two fellows sitting on barrels with a checker board (chess if you're high class).  Hmmm...that sounds familiar...you can buy just such a detail from Woodland Scenics OR paint the kit figures yourself.  The checker board was a decal you applied to the plastic square.  There was also a little coal bin, I think, and maybe more.

The door on the shanty was molded plastic, but it came in the hinged open position, another nice touch.  The window frames were a bit thick, but not overly so.  There are numerous little touches you can add, just by studying photos of real shanties & sheds.  A nice craftsman touch is to replace the roof that came with the kit with individual shingles (or campbell, etc.) or paper creek material, or your own tissue paper painted black to represent rolled roofing.  Your choice - but here's where the craftsman kits take some of the guesswork out & do the homework for you, making an appropriate suggestion on what to use and providing that material in the kit.

Cleaning flash, priming and painting for weather effects (peeling paint, etc) is good.  Try bashing two kits together, or replacing the molded plastic base with a different foundation like concrete or cinderblock or brick pillars.  It's the same for the larger kits - just take your time and strive for putting as much character into each wall & window.  The danger is to do too much (a highly debatable opinion) but that's up to you.

You don't need to spend oodles of dollars on a high-dollar craftsman kit unless you really want to.  There are some really neat ones out there.  But if you decide to kitbash a cheap plastic kit into something special, you will have something you paid considerably less for, and something that nobody else has on their layout!

Hope this helps.  And I hope the craftsman kit mafia doesn't come after me...

Galen

Galen there is a Huge difference between building a craftsman Kit and super detailing a Two dollar-ninety-eight cent shanty. Yes you can kit-bash a cheep plastic kit and when your done super detailing it it's still a cheep plastic kit with details. 

Kit bashing is the art of combining two or more models into a model completely different that what the original models were designed as in the first place. When completed you can then super detail these Kit-bashed models with a large assortment of weathering assorted detail parts and paint

Scratch Building is the ability to find a full size structure you like and then reduce it down to the scale your modeling in. Then draw a scale set of plans for templates. Then go to the hobby shop or find all the parts required and build said model from strip wood or plastic or brass. When complete you can again super detail your scratch built structure with weathering assorted detail parts and paint.

Assembling a Craftsman type kit is very much like Scratch building except someone has gone to the trouble of drawing all the plans and blue prints down to the scale your modeling in . They then have rounded up all the materials in bulk, placed them and like materials in separate bags as well as all the small detail parts like window frames, doors, pulleys, gears, screws, bolts, lights ...ect and provided them in a separate bag. Along with the blue prints you'll find a detailed booklet with step by step assembly instructions and in some cases a super detailing guide to assist your completion of the model and a paint & stain guide as well as a history of the model where and how it was used. When completed you can then weather and super detail the structure and if you wish stick the two guys and their checker board somewhere near the structure.

The difference in a plastic kit super detailed and a craftsman Model assemblie is Skill level and personal ability. anybody can do both Detail a cheep plastic model to make it look like a super detailed cheep plastic model Or build an Exact to scale Highly detained Board by board constructed Model and when finished weather and super detail it. But the big difference is you. You built the craftsmen kit and your the one that knows what all went into it. And your the one that decides to make the model static or operational where it looks real when set next to the real article. But let me say that Kit Bashing and super detailing is not assembling a craftsman Kit because you can Kit Bash and super detail craftsman Kits too.

Dan

A craftsman can make any kit look better than a beginner. But there's a significant difference between a craftsman kit and an inexpensive, mass produced plastic model. And that's the difference in detail level you get.  The plastic model will tend to have oversize window mullions and munions and its difficult to add things like boards coming loose from the side of a clapboard building that's made of plastic.  The thickness of things (like corrugated steel roofing) will tend to be much closer to scale with a craftsman kit.

However, you don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to get a craftsman kit (and you probably shouldn't for your first one!). Those expensive kits often build up into a relatively large diorama that may or may not fit well on your layout. Instead, if you're interested start with a relatively small single building kit. Railroad Kits and FOS scale, two of MRH sponsors both make kits like this. These kits will come with a wealth of information in the instructions teaching about how to finish the kit like a pro. If it doesn't come out well, you've not wasted too much money - put the first effort in a background location where nobody will get a good look at it and get another inexpensive kit (doesn't have to be the same one) and try again, with what you learned from the first effort you'll probably do much better. After you get the hang of windows, wall detailing, painting, staining, washes, getting buildings sqaure, installing roofs, and maybe thinking about some interior details you'll be ready for bigger and more complex kits. These in turn will give you the experience to start kit bashing these kits, and get into scratchbuilding.

Just my $.02 worth...

Charlie

Art Curren, no rank beginner himself, covered many of the techniques for improving plastic kits in his seminal volume on kitbashing structures.  One of those was creating a loose clapboard effect with a razor blade.  It may not look as good as wood, but many of the techniques he covered besides that particular effect are quite useful and can produce a model that will NOT resemble a cheap-o plastic kit when you're done with it.

Even with a plastic kit (especially so) you still have to deal with "windows, wall detailing, painting, staining, washes, getting buildings sqaure, installing roofs, and maybe thinking about some interior details" and much more if you want it to look better or different than the suggested artwork on the box.

I'm not saying plastic kits are the same as craftsman kits, but I am saying in many ways they are better.  Much of the work (cutting window openings, for example) is done for you.  You don't have to worry about plastic brickwork chipping, like plaster castings.  They are usually less expensive and more readily available (not limited edition).  Limited edition just means that you and 499 other people all have the same kit...unless you kitbash it or paint it differently, or place the details differently...but those things are not exclusive to building craftsman kits.  The impetus to kitbash is even stronger for the same reason with a plastic kit.

Charlie - you give some great advice that anyone would be wise to heed.  Still, I would not be so quick to discount the efforts of good modelers who can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse and you'd be hard pressed to know the difference.  Yes, thinning window mullions is tedious work (I've done it, I know) but once you get the hang of it, it's easy, and the results are every bit as nice as what you'd get from a craftsman kit.  A good coat of paint (with appropriate weathering, of course) covers many imperfections.

I know I'm reverse running here, but hear me out before anyone judges me...oh wait, looks like Dan already has...

Galen

Galen,

I didn't mean to imply that a craftsman can't DRASTICALLY improve the appearance of a plastic kit. They sure can (and do!) - a great weathering job will make a huge difference as will adding some extra details.

And yes, long live the kit bashers!

Charlie