Our Second Layout

Hi all,
My father and I are are getting ready to move into a new home with plenty of room for a model railroad of decent size. As the header says this is only our second layout. We model in HO scale. The first one was in a 11' by 14' basement room and was primarely a double track loop with a small yard, a wye and not much more. It was built on table top style bench work with enough area inside to accomodate two people to run trains. We got as far as getting the track work in wired for DC and basic scenery started, then had to tear it down to move. For the last five years we have been armchair modelers, dreaming of the day we would have another place big enough for a layout.
Right now niether of us realy has experience as far as operating a layout in any manner. I can nnot speak for my father but that is an aspect I would like to get into eventually, but have not gotten out there and met other modellers in the area that hold Op. sessions. With the new layout, if it were up to me I would be designing it more operation oriented, but being as I will only be living with my Father for another year or so this is mainly his layout. I am however in the planning stages of some Free-Mo based Modules, as I have learned of a group here in South East Michigan that does so. Hopefully with that connection it will open our eyes to operation a little more.
As of the moment we are planning to use this layout as a learning point, and to hone our skills as modelllers. We plan on initially getting the main line up and some of the yard tracks up and running so we can run trains by Christmas this year. Our main goal of this layout is to just work on our scenery skills and learn the ins and outs of DCC.
Our layout room is 35' long 9' wide in the middle and 12 feet wide at the ends. Our plan for benchwork is L-girder. We would like to keep our Min. turnouts to number 6s, and Min. Mainline radii to 36"and keep it single level. We want to use code 83 flex track be it Atlas or Micro Engineering, and use Fast Tracks Turnouts throughout. We are setting the layout in the "Modern Era", by that I mean late 80s to present day. We want to include a decent sized yard(basically a divison point yard), with full Loco Service Facilities, an Intermodal facility, Small passenger Facility(more than likely Walthers City Station kitbashed to our likings), Double track mainline, a few industries, a small city scene, residential areas and a wye to turn trains. We don't really plan on designing this layout for a true operating scheme, but are open to it. Mainly we plan more of a railfanning design but not in the sense of wide open scenery more based on our locale here in the metro Detroit area, double track mainline running, with some industrial switching, yard switching, and some passenger service(Mainly Amtrak and Excursion trains as we have collected quite a few passenger cars and Locos from multiple Railroads).
With that said I have been working on designs on Xtrack Cad, but these are just Ideas right now nothing is truely set in stone. Once we get into the house we plan on getting a few rolls of construction paper and laying a few designs out in the space and seeing what we like. The current design incorperates most of what we would like to include on the layout. and has the ability for operation as using the wye to head off to temporary Staging and running as a point to point. As you can see by the design I have attached I have not designed any industries in as those will be added as we progress. Mainly I have added the Yard and service facility, the intermodal facility and area where the Passenger terminal will be which is on the lead for the intermodal yard, and blocked in the areas that would become a City scene, and a Residential area based on a suburb of Detroit on the GTW Holly Sub. Theoretiaclly with this design we could run an operating session bringing trains in out of staging through the wye and run them around the layout doing their duties either run through freights or through Amtrak trains and then back to staging through the other leg of the Wye, and then run a local or two out of the yard and switch the industries, end and originate a train or two out of the yard to staging and Excursions also out of the yard and around the layout a few times or just onto staging.
I know I posted and deleted a thread once already and got some feedback, but deleted it, as I felt a little intimidated at some responses. I considered what alot of you had said and decided to repost and reword our intentions. As I have said our main goal is not operaton as we do not have that much experience with that, mainly we just want to run trains and enjoy that aspect, and just get aclamated to DCC and practice building Scenery, get our buildings and rollingstock out of the boxes build and detail them and just Hone our skills, as this is mainly just a stepping stone to future layouts on both of our parts, and to boot this house is just a rental. Sorry for being so long winded and thanks ahead of time for any advice and ideas.
David R. Gustafson
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Suggestions
David,
I'm pretty new to the hobby, so please take that into consideration. I looked at your plan, and it seems, well, just a bit ambitious to start. It can be overwhelming, a layout this size, as the tasks can appear insurmountable - especially as you're just starting out, and learning. Trust me on this one!
I'd maybe suggest instead designing a small core layout, that can be expanded instead. This would allow you to get things running quickly, and than expand it as your skills and experience improves. The point of a learning layout is to do just that - learn. While I've started off in much smaller size than you, being able to experiment, and run trains is vital to the process.
I'm not saying don't do it, but if you start on the big layout, you may want to consider building this in phases. To me, its all about achievable goals. Say put a loop down first, just to get things moving, than go back and complete other areas. Having some trains run is an important factor to keeping your interest going.
Finally, my second piece of advice is to try and not hold it near and dear to your heart. Be willing and open minded to change the plan mid swing, or tear something out. Because it will happen!
www.garbo.org/MRR
Plan for future ops now
In the plan you have posted above, it looks like there will be some reach issues at the top of the yard and in the intermodal area, unless there is access from both sides. If you do intend to access those areas from both sides, there might be some walkaround awkardness.
However...(and I apologize if this was already discussed on your deleted thread)
I know you said that operations would be a kinda-sorta-maybe-later thing, but given what I've read about George Selios' layout recently, you'll be better off to plan for those future operations up front. You don't need to eat the whole elephant now, but it would be good to plan out your bites.
It sounds like you've already given some thought to some general operations. I would formalize it by taking a step back from the CAD and drawing schematic on paper. I'm a fellow SE Michigander and am familiar with the GTW/CN Holly Sub. You've mentioned it above, so lets use it as inspriation.
Grab a pencil, and on a sheet of paper, draw circles on either end of the sheet and label them "North Staging/Durand" and "South Staging/Detroit". Then draw some circles between them to represent stations you want to consider modeling. They could be, from north to south, "Pontiac Yard", "Pontiac Amtrak", "GM Pontiac Assembly", "Birmingham Amtrak", "Royal Oak Amtrak", "Moterm", etc. on down to your Detroit staging. You won't be able to model all of these stations in your space, of course, so you'll need to think about what things on that line appeal to you and be choosy. Then connect the circles with two lines for your doubletrack main.
This is the start of your layout's schematic. It shows what staging represents (Durand and Detroit) and how the trains will flow across the layout. Through trains will go from staging to staging (Detroit to Durand), Amtrak will go from Detroit staging and terminate in Pontiac (and vice-versa), and locals will start in Pontiac Yard and work their way to Detroit staging (and vice versa).
Then start adding some pencil-drawn detail to the circles you've drawn, like yard body tracks, industry spurs, double-track crossovers, etc. It's not a track plan at this point, it's just a functional representation of what tracks should be present. Once you have the functional trackage in, you can think about how that straight point-to-point line you drew can be twisted up to fit your space, or loop back on itself for a continuous running option. This whole process will serve as a guide to what your eventual scale track plan and benchwork shape will end up looking like.
And if you start smaller with a mind to expand as Scarpia suggests, it would be good to know where in the layout the smaller section will fit, so you don't need to shoehorn it in somewhere awkward later.
Again, even though you just want to run trains now, thinking about and laying out the basics of the transportation system you want to operate on later would be a wise move, IMHO
I think I would consider dominoes to start with.
You could build a layout using Dave Barrows dominoe method of construction to see what works and what doesn't. As you get into operations, and see what works best and where the shortcomings are, you can easily move them around and modify them. You may need to start out with a flat layout at first, but operating it will reveal how well the various industries and yards work. Once you get an idea of what you want to do and how to do it, you can then rebuild parts of the layout to include hills and mountains or other topographical features. Regardless of whether your layout is in the flat plains or in the mountains, all of your industrial sidings must be flat and level to keep rolling stock from moving when switched.
Well we have decided to start
Well we have decided to start with just getting the benchwork up and getting just the mainline in and a small storage yard just to get the ball rolling. On top of this We each are working on building a few Free-Mo modules to test out I deas as far as Scenery. Once the bench work starts going up I will post pics and show our progress.