Handlaid Curved Turnout Frustration

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Wed, 2010-03-24 13:57 — potlatcher

OK, I've been following the "modified Tony Koester method" for handlaying turnouts for a couple years now. For me, this means pre-laying the ties on roadbed, with PC ties replacing wood ties at strategic points, i.e. headblocks, frog & guardrail locations, and a couple selected locations for maintaining electrical continuity. I notch the stock rails and form and file the points, frog rails and closure rails by hand (no jigs). The rails are soldered to the PC ties and I fill the frog with solder and cut the flangeways with a hacksaw blade. Once it all appears to work, I drive spikes in some of the wood ties, solder in guardrails and the throwbar and cut gaps at the frog. For the first stage of my layout, all the turnouts were straight #5's, and although none of them were perfect, I felt pretty comfortable with my method. By the way, all my rail is code 70.

The second stage of my layout, however, required me to lay four curved turnouts and one straight one. I had to learn as I went, modify my method slightly to compensate for the curved geometry, and tweak the finished turnouts a little for them to be (mostly) derailment free. Then, last week, I realized that although all my four-axle diesels ran through the curved switches just fine (no six-axles on my RR yet), I'd never run my lone steamer (a Spectrum 2-8-0) through them. Sure enough, the 2-8-0 will not successfully navigate three of the four curved turnouts. It handles the straight one just fine, which proves there's nothing wrong with my basic technique. And, it handles one of the curved turnouts without any noticable problems.

The main problem occurs mostly at the frog, and in most cases it seems the long wheelbase is binding up as it tries to negotiate the curve, either slowing the engine down or causing the flanges to ride up out of the frog. Again, the curvature on the turnouts is not excessive - on one of the problem switches, both radii are definitely what I would call broad. I have gone over each turnout with my NMRA gauge - all dimensions appear to be within standards. And, I can see no noticeable difference between the one curved turnout that works just fine and the other three.

Clearly, I'm hoping I can just tweak the turnouts to fix the problem, but I am also resigned to tearing them out and trying again if I need to. Are there any secrets to successful handlaid curved turnouts that someone can pass on to me? Is there a good reference (site or book) that I can go to for guidance? If I were to try using a CVT kit, how do I figure which number (5, 7, 9, etc . . .) to purchase to fit my custom combinations of radii?

Thanks in advance for whatever help you can offer!

Tom Hillebrant

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Wed, 2010-03-24 17:26 — MarcFo45 (not verified)

You did not state if you checked the steamer drivers and all its wheel gage against the NMRA gauge. I would check this before tearing out track.

If the Spectrum 2-8-0 has sound the wires between the engine and tender can cause havo and enought force to throw things off track. The wires can also cause the draw bar to bind up or not have its full travel.

Marc Fournier, Quebec

Marc, Thanks for the reply.

Wed, 2010-03-24 19:18 — potlatcher

Marc,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I already checked and all drivers are in gauge, and from watching the engine attempt to run through the switch several times, I am certain the wires to the tender are not the cause.

I think part of the problem may have to do with the "throat" of the frog, where the two closure rails come together before opening up to become part of the frog. This is the spot where the binding appears to be worst. It may be too narrow and causing the binding. I have tried opening it up with needle files, but with little improvement. This makes me wonder if it is possible to have a curved switch that is too shallow - in other words, one where the two radii are too close to each other?

Before I resort to tearing out the switches, I do want to be certain I know what went wrong and how to avoid the same problem the second time around.

Thanks again for your input.

Tom

If you go to the Fast Tracks

Wed, 2010-03-24 23:16 — Rio Grande Dan

If you go to the Fast Tracks web site they have FREE printable full size Turnout Templates in PDF form for what ever scale your modeling, Find the size your using print it out and lay it over your turnout maybe that will help yo find the bind spots. and they have #4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11, curved templates both left and right hand.

Dan

Rio Grande Dan

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Thu, 2010-03-25 08:31 — MarcFo45 (not verified)

if it is the throat, then the NMRA gauge should bind up on it also.

Marc Fournier, Quebec

frog binding

Fri, 2010-03-26 18:44 — espeekiwi

Unfortunatley as many here will say, rip it out and start over.

I build my own N scale turnouts, and it took me 15 goes before i made one that was operationally perfect...although it looked a little ugly.

i found the binding of the flanges stopped when the deviating point rail as it approaches the frog is set further back

then the main line point.

when making the turnout build the frog, then add the point rails to the sides of of the frog.

then once in place align the deviating stock rail first, since the main point is usually straight (in most cases) it is the last rail to be installed as it is the easiest and needs the least amount of work.

for example if you were standing at the point end of a turnout facing the frog, and the deviating rails were to your right, the left point rail would be slightly longer then the right point(straight) rail, even thought the points are aligned equally at your end of the turnout.

i make my turnouts so the point rail and gaurd rail on the frog is all one piece, the are all flipped upside down and soldered together, the cross bar is also a piece of rail at the point end.

It is what is called a power routing turnout and the entire frog goes live to the side it is aligned to.