Blue Rail Trains has

Blue Rail Trains has announced a late December/early January ship date for their Bluetooth system.  It certainly is interesting, especially for a small layout.  All you need is a cheap 12V power source, an inexpensive Android phone, and one of their circuit boards for each loco. 

http://bluerailtrains.com/

Steve S

Bluttooth Train Control

This is atleast the fourth time an outfit has announced a Bluetooth and or WiFi decoder like product (The second on Kickstarter). BlueRail announced early last year that Bachmann's EZ-App trains will be available as early as the summer of 2015. Bachmann did release a track side EZ-App controller earlier this year and is supposed to deliver locomotives and trains sets with the transceivers installed before Christmas. As I am backing the Bluetooth Hobby Train Control Module development with my $39 bucks I hope they are suscessful. But in a crowed field of Kickstarts getting even $21,250 in funding is probably going to be tough.

Note: Although it is probably not enforceable (due to prior inventions) BlueRail has filed a patent for running trains with Bluetooth, but it will cause some potential developers to drop products instead of fighting the patent trolls. This is similar to the situation where Matt Katzer of KAM Industries, essentially claimed rights to JMRI (DecoderPro, PanelPro, etc.). Luckily the JMRI developers, Sourceforge and the JMRI community were able to band together and smack Katzer down ( http://jmri.sourceforge.net/k/History.shtml).

Someone over at the MR forum

Someone over at the MR forum said that the Blue Rails decoders will cost $75 per board.  If you've got more than a few locos, that pretty well shoots down the advantage of not having to buy an expensive DCC base unit.

Steve S

...

It's pretty much where the entry price point used to be with the featureless DCC decoders fifteen years ago.

Anybody who ties the bluetooth patent route will find the field of Wireless control modules to be deeper and wider than they had ever imagined.  We are on the threshold of "a computer in every locomotive" as we speak.  When that happens, there will be no need for any physical infrastructure aside from your computer control device [computer, smartphone, etc], your locomotive with control module, and the software running everything.

It takes all of $5 to make a 17 function decoder, there are USB thumb drives in the stores for under $10 that could fit my computer from 1998 fifty three times over.  Tell me why it still costs $100 to make a device that is simpler in concept than most modern electronics and yet has less function than a remote control, when the cost to develop either option is nearly equal in cost.  We have this old argument with the manufacturers that Yes, we CAN change the model after they release it to make it more accurate, but it would be the same cost if they just designed it right the first time - and that's where model railroad electronics is likely headed...

I do believe Bachmann will make many sales with their system, and if it takes off, it will be the beginning of the end for much of this...

This came by email yesterday...

Hello from BlueRail Trains!

I'm happy to report the first of our line of plug-in boards is nearly ready for prime time, and I can give you some details on it. You can watch a video here:

Wow

Thats pretty cool but an out of sight option right now as I run N scale and there really isn't much room inside the locos.  Going to keep my eye on this new technology.

Bluetooth limitations?

Are there any technical limitations in bluetooth technology that would make it ultimately unsuitable for controlling  multiple devices on a very large layout?

Why?

do they think we'd like to pay $75 per loco for their controller when we can buy decoders for $20 ? I see all those Bachman remote controlled turnouts sitting on the shelves so I'm wondering if these modules will end up the same?? Bachman ocasionally builds a nice model but they often seem to be marketing to the inexperienced segment of the hobby, perhaps trying to pick the low hanging fruit???.......DaveB 

Limitations

The new Bluetooth LE technically has no limit to the number of controlled devices. Each will pair with a separate controller (no need base units) and seem ideally suited to the growing interest in battery power. The boards manufactured by BlueRail Trains have an expansion to allow DCC compatibility but that may become unnecessary as the bi-directional data flow provided by BT will allow more direct feedback and control than any current system offers. The nice thing and out this is the ability to update the firmware at any time so this is very forward thinking  

This is in it's infancy so time will tell what the potential will yield or how much the cost will fall. Ultimately it is how much we are willing to spend for this level of control. I'm already in line and excited to see the day that the boards are released to those of us willing to be early adopters. 

Neil

RE: Limitations

Thanks for your illumination, Neil! Bluetooth certainly looks promising.

Technology seems to be moving so fast that it is going to become increasingly hard for MR manufacturers and users to put all their eggs in one basket, for fear that some "other" technology will prevail in terms of features and price point.

It will be interesting to me (and painful to some) to see how this all shakes out in a few years. It appears that we're still in the early stages of a technology race, and frankly I'm having a tough time keeping abreast of it.

I wonder how long it will be before MRH will feel compelled to create a sister to Joe Petrarca's DCC column, solely devoted to the emerging non-DCC stuff. Soon, I hope. Joe?

do they think we'd like to

This was addressed in another thread from someone who asked this question directly from David Rees. Basically they could only afford a very small initial run; as I recall it was on the order of 500-750 units.  This technology is very much in it's infancy and as it gains acceptance the costs will undoubtedly come down.  I'm very excited about this technology in the long term but I fear they may have erred in offering such a large board for their initial run.  I think a board compatible with a typical hood unit would have been a better idea.

Bluetooth train control

Monocacy Trains is actually selling their boards directly from their site and their only $39. I ordered one a few weeks ago. It works really well. I was able to fit it perfectly in my HO engine. I was going to buy Bluerails decoder but it is too expensive and the board will pretty much only fit in a tender. I am a diesel guy so I don't have any tenders. 

The control app is decent but would be cooler if it had more realistic images. 

Bummer!

I am in N scale, so this is not yet an option - a "decoder" about as wide as a U.S. quarter would not fit in my engines. The other, more important, aspect is I would need an iOS or Android smartphone, neither of which is a necessity or desire for me. I use Blue Tooth on my "flip-phone" for my earpiece, which is about all I need Blue Tooth. Perhaps the Blue Tooth innovators will develop a less costly means of control than a smartphone and make a smaller decoder.

Smart phone

You can buy a no contract android smart phone for less than $40 and not activate it to get your controller. Sometimes even cheaper if you catch them on sale.

EDIT 9/20: So I happened to be in Wal-Mart last night and noticed they have several pre-paid android phones for about $20, some as low as $10!  Of course you won't get all the features, or a great camera. If all you want is a way to run the bluerail app, you don't really care it is only 3G, things you will care about are the screen/phone size, the android OS version (you need 4.3 or later) and enough free space for the app. I think the Straight Talk Moto E would work or the smaller Total Wireless LG Optimus Fuel (but not Dynamic II) and you could put engine driver on it as well.  Even put other model railroading apps like Model Scaler from Woodland Scenics on there. Of course unfortunately it is impossible to say how responsive the app will be as these phones only have a 1.2 Ghz dual core processor, yes I said only.

...

The smartphone IS the less costly option...

...I understand, though, it does way too much versus what you want to do with it.

I just read that Monocacy

I just read that Monocacy Trains can work with N gauge.  Check out their facebook page.  I guess it all depends on the amount of space you have inside your locomotive shell.  You can also buy a cheap Amazon Kindle Fire tablet (they run Android).  They are down to $50, which isn't that bad compared to phones and ipads.

Not ready for n scale....

Until they can match this:

Monocacy Bluetooth board

Bonjour Hotrainguy,

You have the board working for more than a year now, as I understand. Can you please comment on your experience ?

Is it so that in "steam" mode there's no whistle ?

Thanks for your input.

Regards,

filip

iS Bluetooth MR-ing Ever going to get off the ground???

I can't believe that this thread is DEAD - No action or comments for 3 years?!?  Why are you people letting this die? 

This is the same leap from DC to DCC we saw years ago that re-energized the hobby. 

There is no SANE reason why Bluetooth train control is NOT taking over the entire industry and hobby by now.

The only Bluetooth rail controller websites for product don't even have stuff available for purchase - listed as "Out of Stock".  Good grief, Charlie Brown. 

What IS going on?!?!? 

Bluetooth railroad control should be eating hand-held DCC for lunch by now.  Look up the hardware costs on eBay.  You can buy an Arduino Nano controller for $3.19 and a bluetooth transceiver for under $0.75! 

That will run your motor, sounds, and 4 sets of lights and/or other stuff.  You can store the locomotive sounds on your phone or computer and use the bluetooth loco as a remote speaker set - just like I have my home set up with bluetooth speakers to listen to my phone tunes!  Heck, I could be rockin to Hendrix on my 2-8-2 Mikado as it rolls through the model mountainside.

The controller software is FREE for your smartphone or laptop. 

The whole thing is only 18mm W x 45mm L.

Yeah, I'm not making this up.  WAKE UP GUYS!

You should by now be able to control your locomotives, sounds and lights for under $5.00 each, via bluetooth - not some clunky, hand-held thing with 150 buttons on it, tethered with phone cables to jacks on your layout fascia, that costs $500 plus another $25 - $100 to outfit each loco with "decoders". 

DCC is dead dead dead.  Long live Bluetooth.  And there's no reason why they can't run together, at the same time, using the same power supply. 

Check this article out:

https://thinkelectronics.org/bluetooth-remote-control-using-arduino-nano/

DCC is dead dead dead. Long live Bluetooth.

What was it the Mark Twain said? “The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.”

That quote also applies to this comment about DCC vs Bluetooth.

When it comes to loco control, Bluetooth is stone knives and bearskins, to borrow a phrase from the old Star Trek TV series about crude electronics. Those who have actually used both DCC and Bluetooth will tell you it’s cool to talk wirelessly directly to the loco with Bluetooth, but that’s where the coolness ends. The actual throttle control with Bluetooth is about as crude as it gets. And you can forget the huge variety of sound control options you find in DCC.

Meanwhile the rich loco tuning and control options available in DCC (not to mention the great sound features) are just non-existent in Bluetooth control.

What I’d like to see is for the Bluetooth advocates to stop reinventing the wheel and give us a system that uses Bluetooth to talk to a DCC decoder in a loco. Now that would finally get the idea of a Bluetooth loco control system off the ground!

But frankly, I think WiFi is the more likely candidate in this space. It’s already making inroads in DCC. Meanwhile, the Bluetooth advocates keep reinventing loco control and they’re way behind DCC in terms of the elegance of the control and the integration of sound. Bluetooth will remain a tinkerer's curiosity until someone wakes up and uses it to talk to a DCC decoder.

WifiTrax

Check what WifiTrax ( http://www.wifitrax.com/) is doing - I enjoyed talking to the gentleman running the company in SLC at the National Train Show last summer. They've got deadrail/PoB solutions, as well as options for working with existing DCC decoders - and they are working on a method of being able to use your DCC command station to control WiFiTrax equipped locomotives - it appears their first product in that line is about to be released:

http://www.wifitrax.com/products/product-WFD-30-detail.html

Almost makes me want to go out and buy an NCE system. 

Almost. My investment in CVP throttles is a bit steep..... 

Dead not yet

This maybe were the manufacturer is promising more then can be delivered. I agree with JoeF Manufacturers  using Bluetooth should have found a way to join off of existing DCC systems. 
 

I tried the Bluerail boards and they were fine just too big for diesels and I found I did not enjoy running an engine from my cell phone. There was an easy market to sell them, so I do feel there is a market there.

Tom

bluetooth vs wifi

I see more stuff about wifi train control than bluetooth. Technologically, bluetooth seems to me like a better match for specifically the link between a controller being held a few feet away and a locomotive. But wifi has the advantage of being able to communicate with a base station across the room that's out of range for bluetooth.

That may be why wifi train control seems to be getting more traction, or it just may be the fact that in consumer electronics in general bluetooth is not getting a lot of uptake compared to wifi-enabled-everything. 

I suspect that bluetooth has 'missed it's window of opportunity' compared to wifi.

Nuh-huh. Nope. Not at all.

No. it most emphatically is not.

DC to DCC opened up a whole world of simultaneous running, functions, and layout control that most people never even dreamed existed. DCC basically6 sold itself with a single use/demonstration. It dramaticaslly re-invented the hobbuy, making REALISTIC ops possible.

Bluetooth doesn't ADD anything.... it's simply another way to contol it. In fact, DCC can do things bluetooth CAN'T do.... like run N and Z scale trains.