Very interesting. Would love

Very interesting. Would love to see a video of it in action if you get a chance.

Regard,

Jonathan

Moving water file

Paul,

Here is the file I’ll be using:

https://www.freesound.org/people/Philip%20Goddard/sounds/180462/

There’s a wind chime in the sound that I need to remove via the Audacity program. Should be easy. 

Now just buy the module (and I would recommend the DCC power adapter, too) and you’re good to go!

.flac to .wav conversion

Paul,

One more thing: that sound was saved as a .flac file which you’ll need to convert to a .wav file in order for ISE’s Squeal module to read. 

I used this nifty site, Convert.Files, to make the format change. It took a while to upload but the conversion was pretty quick.

I’ll give you more (on) .flac!

Ha! Sorry for the pun.

Come to think of it, the Audacity program may be able to open and convert the .flac file for you. I haven’t tried it but I noticed it will export to the .flac format. I suppose it goes both ways.

Oh, and you need to convert the .flac to .wav to run on the ISE Squeal.

FLAC> Audacity> WAV = Reccomended

Dear Scott, Paul,

Correct, Audacity 2.1.1 will import FLAC files.
Strongly reccomend getting hands-dirty in an Audio Editor instead of pfaffing around with online converters. A decent Audio Editing app is to sonic modelling what your entire modelling toolkit + workbench is to your physical models...

http://audacityteam.org/

FYI, one of the biggest "Audacity for Model RRing" user-groups is the LayoutSound yahoogroup...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Thanks, Prof…

…knowing your background, yes, I will take your good advise!

Love what you've done with

Love what you've done with the place... 

How is it triggered? I see two leads "to DCC bus". Does this mean it's always on? Does it react on a DCC address?

Furthermore, is it possible to trigger it from, let's say, a Loconet occupancy detector?

Gerard

CKT-Squeal =/= DCC capable

Dear Gerard,

No, the ISE CKT-Squeal does not react to DCC commands,
nor does it have any form of DCC (accessory or otherwise) addressing.

The "DCC Power Adaptor" is exactly that, a method of converting DCC Track buss to "clean DC power" for powering analog accessories and suchlike. It does NOT pass, convert, or adapt DCC "control signals" from the Track Buss to other devices.

http://www.iascaled.com/store/ModelRailroad/CKT-DCCPWR

If you are looking for a decent, low-cost polyphonic WAV file player unit that can:
- accept straight "play/stop" triggers for up-to 4 "tracks" from a DCC buss
(via a simple 4-function decoder like a FCS FL4 or similar)
- can accept network-based commands via JMRI or LocoNet

then I'd suggest you look into the PNET implementation on the Pricom DreamPlayers...

http://www.pricom.com/indexold.shtml

http://www.pricom.com/Trains/PNETLocoNetBridge.shtml

NB that the ISE CKT-Squeal _may_ be able to be adapted to use a TCS FL4 accessory decoder as a "DCC front end" in the same manner as the Pricom DreamPlayer, but I have to admit I have not yet been able to test a CKT-Squeal for such operation...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Curious about power source

Scott, I am wondering why tap off DCC power instead of a simple wall wart or other 12VDC power supply?

I guess if you are only using one of these you are not stealing too much DCC power, but I would think you want to keep as much power for running trains as possible.

If you add other sound modules or other accessories that can benefit from a 12VDC power buss then it makes sense (to me at least) to get a 12VDC wall wart and run an accessory power buss around the layout.  I know some cheap 12VDC wall warts don't provide nice clean power, but a quality one would.

Another option for a power source would be an old PC power supply, usually requires a little tweaking to get it to power on, but plenty of youtube videos on that. This would also give you a source of 5VDC power if needed.

Be careful of noise

Dear Jim B,

Another issue is buzzing/humming "noise" that can be introduced into the analog audio stages of some devices, if powered by a source which also has to power electrically "noisy" things like motors and switching relays.

Haven't personally tested a CKT-Squeal for such behaviour, but have been "bitten" before where I tried to power all of the analog "traction control" power, + a CD player, + a couple of DC-powered amplified PC multimedia-speaker rigs off a common 16VAC transformer. Added filter caps and a number of power-smoothing/regulation stages, and never could totally eliminate the high-frequency "whine" from the line-input front-end of the power-amp stage.

Ground-hums and buzzes are another issue to be conscious of...
seperate plugpacks or at-least "seperate accessory (audio) power busses" can be a good thing to engineer-in ahead of time...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

I’m a small operation

Jim,

My layout is very small (you can view the track plan at the link below my name at bottom) and will basically run one train at a time with an occasional MOW truck. 

I haven’t experienced any buzzing running a train with the Squeal unit, but if I do I will power the sound separate.

NB that the ISE CKT-Squeal

You are right that the CKT-SQUEAL does not have built-in DCC support.  However, it should be compatible with most DCC accessory decoders out there.  To trigger sounds, the inputs just need to be pulled to GND (it has internal pull-ups) but a 5V logic-level, active-low input will also work.

Some of the early revisions of the CKT-SQUEAL design had considerable interference when reading from the SD Card.  Those can pull hefty current spikes.  That has been resolved in the production version.  As currently designed, the CKT-SQUEAL should be rather resilient against noise on the input supply since it internally regulates and filters the 5V used to drive the audio path.  That said, if you can power it from a separate supply, all the better.

Michael Petersen
Iowa Scaled Engineering, LLC

From the horses mouth

Dear Michael,

Thanks for the clarification, good to hear direct from the manufacturer on such issues

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

"Small" layouts =/= reason to skip good Audio design/deployment

Dear Scott,

My show layouts rarely exceed 4' x 2' (google "Brooklyn : 3AM", and "Bindle Mine"),
and yet very-much still have to respect what is established "Good Audio Design"...

Layout Size ("large", "small", or even "micro") 
is not (ever) an viable excuse for shortcutting good wiring and circuit deployment tenets...

(and irrespective of layout size, good wiring and circuit deployment repays for decades-to-come in bulletproof enjoyable operation... ).

I'll be interested to hear (pun not intended) the results of your CKT-Squeal deployment...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

I’ll do what’s necessary…

…for as close to perfect sound and performance as possible, Prof. 

So, if I wire into the DCC bus and it causes problems with buzzing or poor performance I’ll adjust to remedy the problem. 

I’m not an audiophile or DCC expert, but it seems to me that a DCC system that’s designed to handle multiple sound equipped locomotives should be able to handle a few bus taps especially when my layout only has one engine in operation and the mainline run is a modest 46 feet. 

But, that’s just an assumption on my part.

Noise and power

Prof, it doesn't seem likely that noise from the motors can get back into the DCC signal on the rails since that would require the noise going back through the DCC decoder.  Also the DCC -> DC power module takes the AC style DCC signal rectifies it to DC and has a capacitor to smooth out the DC voltage output. This is then used as the power input to the CKT-SQUEAL. I would think any noise would be eliminated by the power module.

Michael, if power for CKT-SQUEAL, is regulated to 5v on the board why is the input 8-14 VDC?

Scott, the sound equipped locomotives and sound from the CKT-SQUEAL are similar and different. The similarity is that they are both playing back sounds from a memory chip, the CKT-SQUEAL a microSD card, the sound decoder from a chip soldered to the decoder.  The DCC decoder gets its power from the track, similar to the way CKT-SQUEAL gets it power through the DCC to DC power module.  The difference is the decoder plays sounds based on DCC commands it receives over the track as well as sounds played as long as power is applied. The CKT-SQUEAL uses external inputs to select one of the four sounds from the micoSD card.  So all the DCC system does is provide a source of power to the CKT-SQUEAL no control.

Input Voltage Range

Jim - 

The input voltage needs to be higher than the voltage the regulator is trying to output.  This defines the low end - the headroom needed for the regulator.  The high end is determined by either (or both) the power dissipation of the regulator and the max rating of the regulator.  In this case, the audio path is powered from a linear regulator, so you need to be concerned about max power dissipation at higher voltages.  The input should therefore be (relatively) clean DC anywhere in the 8-14V range.

Michael

Ambient Audio

Hi Scott:

Congrats on doing this. I've added ambient audio to my layout and I'll never go back to a silent layout again.

I found the key - for my layout, anyway - was to avoid the temptation to add too many sounds. I started with bird calls and insect buzzes. At one spot on the layout, where I have cattle bathing in the water, I added the burble of the river (accented with the occasional "moo" and splashing sound - but it works out to about a moo or two every five to seven minutes).

I had visitors suggest additional sounds - the occasional dog bark, the sound of a screen door slamming, some vehicle noises, children playing and so on. I've resisted all of these and I'm glad I have. Too much would be, well, too much. The bird calls are surprisingly effective because where I live, we hear them so constantly in the summer that our minds filter out the sound - and the same thing happens on the layout. And yet, if they're missing, the layout room now sounds unnaturally quiet.

Of course the key with ambient audio - like everything in this hobby - is experimenting to figure out what works best for you. Adding and subtracting sounds, adjusting audio volumes, and so on is easy to do. I copied my sound files then made adjustments, so I could always revert to the original.

I used DreamPlayer boards from Pricom for my audio system. I know Prof Klyzler does too.

In addition to being an important part of setting the scene (within 30 seconds of turning on the layout, a cicada buzzes and people know they're in southern Ontario in the summer time), the ambient audio has become an important environmental effect on the videos that I shoot on my layout. The mic on my video camera picks up the audio quite well, as the videos* linked to here will attest.

Well done, Scott - enjoy the fun of ambient audio!

- Trevor

(BTW, I wish we lived closer: Your layout is a lot like mine in concept although very different in terms of scale, era, prototype and so on. I think we'd have a lot of fun feeding off each other's ideas.)

(*I tried embedding these, but it didn't work)

Nice birds with a touch of cicada!

Thanks, Trevor.

Very nice videos and sound effects. 

Yes, I wish we lived closer, too, as I have been inspired by your modeling and blog posts and I think we would have a great time talking all things model railroading. Plus, your enthusiasm and upbeat personality on-air is very comfortable and refreshing. You do a tremendous service to the modeling community. In addition to your TMTV video work I’ve listened to all of your Model Railway Show podcasts several times. Great stuff. 

I totally agree with you in regard to ambient sound – once you have it the layout cannot do without it. Both my rushing river with birds sound and freeway traffic sound create a soothing background that actually has a calming effect. [For any of you naysayers, don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. ]. I haven’t built my river scene yet, but it will be exciting to hear a train trundle across the lattice steel spans with the rushing water and bird sounds underneath. 

It might even be cool to use an IR sensor to trigger some creaks and pops as the train moves across the bridge. Hmm. That’s a good idea!

Got to use the 'embed' code ...

Trevor,

  Where you click the 'share button' on YouTube, you then need the 'embed' tab to get the correct code for this site.

IR Sensor

Thanks for an interesting topic, Scott, and extra info from Trevor. It's appeals to me too in the way you're going about it, and I feel it is ideal for the type of layouts you have (and mine too) in where often only one train will operate, so that you are not over powered with too many noises, especially the idea where it can be IR sensor activated. 

Another 'to do' project!

Thanks.

Brian

Squeal audio: source?

Hi Scott:

I may have missed the reference but I'll ask anyway: do you have an audio file of appropriate flange squeals? I'm looking for sources. And I see a note on the Iowa Scaled Engineering site about plans to enhance the programming of the audio board so the squeal only happens when a train is in motion. I wonder if that's now available?

I've played with the SoundCar and decided I'd rather have flange squeal triggered at specific locations on the layout so I'm looking at the ISE system. I've used the Pricom DreamPlayers elsewhere and they're very powerful systems - but I'd need four or five of them to apply the squeal effects I have in mind to the layout (because I want local speakers for each major curve) and that might be the equivalent of using a bazooka to swat a fly.

Cheers!

-Trevor

---

DP VS CKT-SQUEAL, sound files

Dear Trevor,

- if comparing "apples to apples",

the DP LITE from Pricom 
http://www.pricom.com/Trains/DreamPlayerLITE.shtml

is price-comparable to the ISE CKT-SQUEAL
http://www.iascaled.com/store/CKT-SQUEAL

The DP LITE brings to the table 
- true Stereo playback
(can be used to get "2 point-sources from a single player", or "imaging" between the two signals)
- a proper Audio spec D/A converter

The CKT-SQUEAL
- is only MONO in file format and output,
- and does not AFAIK use a dedicated Audio-spec D/A stage,

but DOES add the ability to run "Start/Loop/End" filesets which can adapt to any trigger duration,
and maintains 4 discrete "trigger inputs"/triggerably effects
(to get this you'd need to step up to the DP MK2).
 

As price is a wash,
and you are (unfortunately * ) appearing to gravitate towards conceptualising 
in the "one sound = one player = one speaker" headspace,
( * this is a common approach by many modellers, it appears logical,
but almost always results in spending more $$$ than is necessary accross a layout,
and typically provides in an impaired end-result)

Then the race between the DP LITE and the CKT-SQUEAL in this application is actually a helluva lot closer than it might appear. The DP wins on sonic-specs and the ability to "stereo image" the sound.
The CKT-SQUEAL wins if "variable duration" playback is critical.

NOTE! To allow "variable duration playback" will require The End User to create a suitable "loopable file set". Simply loading a stock "straight WAV file" will not do the job. As a result, even with the CKT-SQUEAL having this ability, it is the apathy of the typical modeller to get their hands dirty with an Audio Editing App to create said "loopable file set" which renders the function "toothless", and mitigates the CKT-SQUEAL's biggest drawcard.

- RE Sonic sources

There are a few ways to obtain some relevant "flange squeal" sounds.
(Remembering that there is
- the long ultra high-freq "schiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnngggg"
- the lower-freq/slower "grinding" flange squeal
- the wheel/rail skimming "schiing, schsch shiinnng"
- the "ting ting" click and pop of a flange hit
- and the railjoint which can vary from slow low "cLUMP" thru "KA-thump  KA-thump" to fast "kadangkdang"
...and maybe the traditional "clickety clack" if you're lucky...  )

- if modern-era high-speed running is the desired effect, I'm sure a recorder dropped trackside at Barry S's studio next time you're down for a TrainMasters TV session would work

- For those who don't have that luxury, there are a number of remarkably-clean YT clips featuring cameras/recorders mounted on-car which show fantastic examples of various-speed flange squeals/grinds/railjoint-flatspots/etc. Search "Flange Squeal" or "Rail Joint".

- For those who crave more "control" over the sound design, creating your own metallic "flange squeal" and "flange hit" effects can be as simple as running the handle of an X-acto knife or other metallic object along a long freestanding steel or (preferrably) aluminium handrail. The resulting "schiiinnnnnng sching shiinng schiiiinnnnngg" sounds can be recorded using a dynamic mic, condensor, video camera, or even a cell-phone with a "dictaphone" app. If you have more than a few seconds to experiment with with, the "creative" possibilities of such a "play it live" situation can be quite intriguing.

- and for those who can't break away from a computer monitor,
a sine-wave in an audio editor,
processed thru a modulated resonant filter,
with dynamic pitch/volume moves
(either manually recorded using a Maschine or similar controller,
or drawn in using the Audio Editor's "Automation" tools)

can get a plausible "synthetic" flange squeal happening in short order.

No matter how you get your sound source, and create the sound file, remember that flange squeals are commonly characterised as "brain splitting high frequency". They can induce migraines in Real Life, and the challenge is to:
- reduce the volume to Scale Sound levels
- maintain enough high frequency response so "we know that's a flange squeal"
- while taming the highs enough to not generate migraines in every operator and layout-viewer

Not exactly easy, but not impossible either...
(As with any Layout Sound mission, the key is to Trust Your Ears!).

I hope this helps...

Happy Modelling,
AIm to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Prof!

HOW TO POST A VIDEO so everyone can actually see them...

how to embed video

NOTE: Prof fixed his video embedding.  My work here is done