Purpose

Defining a purpose for this area will help in layout design. Right now this is a track plan. If there were a factory or freight house to serve on one end and another industry on the other end it will assist in the design process. Once you establish a purpose it becomes easier to design the remaining. Like a good story, you need plot, conflict and resolution.

BTW, I built a 2x8 switching layout with 18" tail tracks beyond the run around. I wished afterwards that I had room for a loco and two cars and the run around was too long. This was discovered after operating it the third or fourth time.

I have a plan posted on the Beginners Pages of the NMRA site, but it seems that the nmra.org site is down this morning. Will post a link as soon as it comes back to life.

Eric

you might also look this over

Carl Arendt's webiste ( http://www.carendt.com/) is an absolute treasure rtove of model track plans.  there are also great small and micro layout design articles in there, and spending some time on it might well save you a lot of trouble in the end.

Bernie Kempinski, lance Mindheim, and Iain Rice also haev planning books out that could give you some ideas about how to proceed.

Also, it would help if you posted your scale/gauge combination.  8 feet by 7 3/4 inches works out dramatically differently in N scale then On30.

Long and narrow plans

The NMRA site has awakened. Here's a link to content I submitted long ago. Three plans can be found at the bottom of the page that may offer some inspiration.

http://www.nmra.org/beginner/vandalia.html

Eric

Updated post and comments on purpose

Thanks for the comments.

I completely overlooked adding the scale, obviously that has a bearing on what can fit!  I've updated my post to include the scale (HO) as well as a cropped image of the plan.

Thanks to both of you for your links - there are indeed some inspirational plans there.

Regarding purpose, this was initially intended to be simply a stretch of single track with a stub siding to be used as a place to test cars or locomotives following repair and / or as a "project" track for cars / locomotives that are awaiting work. However, then I got a Fast Tracks turnout fixture and it became an exercise to see how many turnouts I could get into the space and still have room for the minimum length tails.  This was shortly followed by the realization that what I had *might* be more frustrating that useful.

The storyline is a little weak; I'm looking for the following:
- A RIP track to store project cars on ("industry" #1)
- A separate spur to store cars that are ready to head back to the layout (when built) or storage (industry #2)
- At least one "through" track to test cars, with an alternative route that will force tracking through turnouts (industry #3).
- A run around

Not a good story, but I'm learning.

Matt

Another resource

Another fine on-line resource is Byron Henderson's LayoutVision site. Lots of good tips and ideas here. Check out the design gallery as there is an example or two you could alter slightly into a functional switching area.

http://www.layoutvision.com/

Byron posts here from time to time and may chime in with a suggestion or two.

Eric

Lessons from Switchman's Nightmare

You have somewhat the same configuration as Linn Westcott's Switchman's Nightmare, but with a couple of extra crossovers that may not provide a lot of operating interest but rather might limit the useable length of some tracks. Something to consider.

Every track must have a purpose

I think many newcomers to the hobby post track plans that just have lines on the paper - if they've not operated much they have no context for what those tracks mean.

If you understand the problems of facing turnouts, the value of trailing turnouts, and the utility of a runaround track, then you've got the beginnings of an understanding of what those lines really mean on a track plan - and you're much better equipped to tell if your lines on your plan are good or bad lines.

There's also railroading 101 - real railroads exist to move freight and passengers from point A to point B, not to just give the railroad a place to move equipment around for the fun of it (unlike modelers).

There's two basic reasons for modelers to have a layout - one is to display their equipment in operation (you see yourself as primarily a railfan) and the other to is pretend you're moving frieght and passengers with your model (you see yourself as sitting in the cab of the engine, getting the train over the line for a reason).

If you're primarily a railfan, then you tend not to be into switching, and any industry spurs or yard tracks are there mainly for show (add to the ambiance of a real railroad) or to display equipment when it's not operating. If you're primarily an engineer, then industry and yard tracks have a purpose in helping you run your railroad as realistically as possible.

For either type, railfan or engineer, it helps to understand the basic problems you need to solve when switching, so a fundamental understanding of facing and trailing point turnouts, plus runarounds will help immensely in giving you the ability to look at a track plan and see if it is "right".

Also, having some sense of what your railroad is transporting from point A to point B also helps all those lines start to take on meaning. Once you know somewhat why all those lines exist, then you're much better equipped to call a track plan good or bad.

What many newcomers don't realize, is that a track plan needs at least some sense of context and purpose for the lines to have meaning. Otherwise, it's just lines on the page, even to us experienced modelers.

Sounds like good advice, but...

I for one would love to understand the things mentioned above.  Where can I find out?  Is there an MRH article that can help me figure this all out or do I need to buy a book?

What makes a turnout a facing turnout or a trailing turnout exactly?

I think I understand the basic utility of the runaround track, to allow a Locomotive to "run around" a cut of cars, not?

As for the rest, I am not so sure...?

Facing and trailing point turnouts

Here's some pictures to illustrate these switching 101 concepts:

Here's why a runaround track is so important because it solves this fundamental problem:

These concepts are FUNDAMENTAL to understanding what those lines mean on a track plan. Everything else on a track plan builds on these fundamentals.

Once you've actually operated on a layout, you quickly realize why these track arrangements exist and you're much better equipped to do real track planning instead of just drawing pretty lines on a blank page (wink and grin).

In my opinion, anyone who doesn't understand these basics is not equipped to do a track plan that will result in a successful layout. Those are strong words, but I think they're true. That's why I tell people if they're planning to spend thousands of dollars on a nice layout, spend a few hundred dollars first for some plane tickets and go operate on some layouts. The Op SIG hosts op events regularly around the country - and attending a few op sessions will leave you much better equipped to really PLAN that layout!

Trailing/Facing point turnouts...

Ok, here goes:

A trailing point turnout is one that a train can back into after passing it (the points are facing away from the train)

A facing point turnout is one that a train can move ahead into (the train is facing the points).

So the turnout's designation changes depending on the direction of travel of the train involved.

A train can switch a trailing point spur directly. A facing point spur will require a run around move (to get the loco on the proper end of the car being dropped or picked up).

Charlie

By the way, this is why turns are so popular

By the way, this is why local switching jobs called TURNS are so popular.

On the way out, the train switches the trailing point spurs. At the end of the run, the loco swaps ends on the train and then on the way back, all the facing point spurs are now trailing point spurs and can be easily switched.

And the train crew can call one place home since they return to where they started at the end of the run. Everything was a piece of cake to switch because the runaround move at the far end of the run solved the facing point turnout problem! And runaround moves are time consuming, so a single run around move is more efficient.

Notice once you understand these switching 101 fundamentals, you're equipped to start understanding WHY certain trains exist and WHY they're done the way they are. Makes layout planning into something really fun instead of anguishing over what you hope are the right lines on the page.

Crystal Clear Now!

Joe, Charlie:

Thanks for the explanation and graphic examples.  It makes complete sense now.

Thanks again!

I found these helped

While trying to get a better understanding of operations and layout design I found this helpful

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/designops.htm

Resources

Steve,

Thanks for the link!

I have been watching for a copy of Bruce Chubb's book.  I think it is one I want to have in my library.

I have Track Planning for Realistic Op's, but admittedly much of it is still going over my head.

Another book I have on my wish list is Allen McClelland's, The V&O Story.

Still learning here!

TPFRO

All of this is in Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation. I don't have the 3rd edition, but in the earlier editions, there's an explanation of facing-point and trailing-point on page 3. The advantages of trailing point turnouts on double-track mains is in the caption for Figure 1-6 (page 7).

Armstrong was a great writer for model railroaders.

My favorite Armstrong book is The Railroad: What it is, What it Does. It is very necessary reading since most of us never really see what it is that railroad does or how it actually operates. This book explains alot for those of us who need more than just being told this is the way its done because it lives up to its subtitle: The Introducton to Railroading. It is published by Simmons-Boardman Books, Inc.

Many may find it a bit technical at first but you'll grow into very quickly.

Irv

Armstrong Books

Byron,

That figures.  I have that book, but as I said earlier a lot of it was going over my head, just dumb I guess.

I put that book aside for a while.  Maybe it's time for me to revisit it?

Irv,

This is also a book on my wish list.

Always a good time for Armstrong, IMHO

I get a little more out of it every time I go back to it ... and I've been going back to it for a long time!

Updated Plan

Wow, I saw Joes first comment, went off to implement some changes based on that and other feedback I'd gotten, and when I come back, the thread has exploded!  < g>

To go back to several questions about the purpose of this design, it is two fold.

It's primary purpose, or better stated, the reason I decided to build it was to provide a place at the workbench where the cars and rolling stock that were being worked on can be stored, rolled around and stored / displayed.

The second purpose is down the road - I intend to tie this into the "real" layout (when it is built) so that I can deliver / pickup bad order cars and locomotives cars that are due for maintenance directly from / to my layout.  This represents a real operational task. 

The third purpose is really a relatively new addition - set up a usable mini-layout that will serve the purposes above, but will also allow some entertainment and a place to prove out some new products I'm working with prior to committing too much capital to the big layout, and test rolling stock (coupling tests, roll tests, tracking tests,  others that will allow me to build more reliable rolling stock and set and measure my own standards).

Find the newest plan below; it's been completely tweaked from based on a plan that Stein from the-guage talked to me about - it appeared much better than mine, which I "filed".  < g>   I also spent some time prettying it up to better illustrate my thougts. Thoughts are welcome!

One note, I have about six feet of space to the left of this which will likely be utilized at some point as a staging track and the roll test ramp, so I'm not real concerned about the relatively short lead by the water tank.

I've had good luck with John Armstrong's books as well (though my copy has gone missing) -  Planning for Realistic Operations was the first book that really got me thinking about standards and beyond just putting down track somewhere because it looked interesting.

Joe and Charlie, thanks for the dueling facing / trailing point posts, and Blue thanks for asking the question.  I understand the basic idea, but found Joe's first post a little cryptic; I don't read between the lines well!

Matt

 A small point:  Generally

A small point:  Generally (but not always since there are always exceptions), a mainline does not route through a diverging path on a turnout on prototype railroads.  If you follow your black path mainline you see a diverging main through the switch in the upper lefthand corner.

But as I said, that's a small point so...

Diverging routes

Thanks for the feedback, beach.  And agreed - but it does look more interesting when a train has to wiggle through! Plus the space (lack of) limits the options. 

I'm currently considering a slightly deeper plan to give me more flexibility.  I just have to be careful about the scope creeping...

Matt

Armstrong

I'm a bit late to the party on this, but have really enjoyed reading the comments and suggestions here.

Having said that I'd like to my personal experience to this conversation. When I hired out with the SP in Denver in 1993, my "new hire" class was actually held in Salt Lake City, with employees hired for the Salt Lake and Grand Jct., Colo. terminals as well. The very first day of class the instructor walked from desk to desk, handing out all the necessary paperwork and instructional manuals, rules books, etc., all of which would be necessary for class. The very last thing he gave us was a copy of John Armstrong's book, "The Railroad: What it is, What it does." He went on to say, "This book isn't necessary for the next two weeks of class, but it's a great way to understand what we're trying to do around here."

I still have my copy, and have thoroughly enjoyed it for 20 years. Funny, was this is a case of the prototype imitating the modeling community, haha?!