Crossing Gate Operations?

I almost suspect that the railroad would try to convince someone to turn that road into an overpass. Sure would simplify things.

Otherwise, I believe by law all tracks would be sensored, and even when switching, the gates will go down. I know that in at least one local yard there is a major road over the end of the yard lead and the city has posted signs with phone numbers to call if the yard switcher keeps the gates down for over 10 minutes (they get to levy fines then).

Does that sort of answer the question?

I know that in at least one local yard there is a major road over the end of the yard lead and the city has posted signs with phone numbers to call if the yard switcher keeps the gates down for over 10 minutes (they get to levy fines then).

We had the same situation here when a major road passed by the eastern limit of Regina's CN yard.  There were signs stating a maximum of five minutes If I remember correctly.  The rails run on an overpass above the road now..

I guess bridges may be an answer, but that takes the fun out of it, so we don't want that! My problem is more of an electrical engineering one I think. When the engine is on the spur ready to cross onto the main, he will stop short of the road, activate the sensor, then proceed. When he finally gets on the main , he has crossed the road, and a sensor should pick up that he is past the road. BUT, when he reverses, there must be another sensor nearer the road than the mainline one would be due to the much shorter distance, and then another sensor to deactivate the gates once he has crossed the road again in the reverse direction. This sensors logic though would be tied into the "short distance" sensor, and not the main. SO, I assume there would be 2 sets of sensors, one for main line traffic that are placed further away from the crossing, and one for switching dealing with the much shorter distances and slower traffic. The main constriction in all of this is that the turnout from the main to the spur is too close to the road, otherwise it would be much simpler to explain. Sorry for the verbal dieharrea, but it is hard to explain without actually running the layout and seeing what happens. But just "talking " to you guys is helping me sort though the logic. Thanks 

Steve  

it is hard to explain without actually running the layout and seeing what happens.

You're telling me!  I just read this a couple of times and I'm still trying to figure out if I have it straight in my head.  I agree the solution to your problem lies in electronics engineering.

The main constriction in all of this is that the turnout from the main to the spur is too close to the road, otherwise it would be much simpler to explain.

Can you post a picture of the area around the crossing?

I think I can remember seeing something that might be applicable, I'll look for it and post it if it seems like a solution.  Interesting problem for sure!

Edit:

Steve, I may be confused as to what is actually going on during operation, but it seems to me that Rob Paisley's Automatic Railway Grade Crossing Circuit would work in your application.

Operation:

1.   When a train traveling in either direction covers one of the "START" sensors, the crossing signals will start to flash.

2.   The signals will remain ON until approximately two seconds after the last car has passed completely through the crossing, uncovering both of the "STOP" sensors.

     (The grade crossing will be protected until both of the "STOP" sensors are uncovered.)

3.   As the train leaves the protected section of track, the "DISABLE" sensors prevent the flashers from being turned ON again by deactivating the "START" sensors.

4.   The "START" sensors are reactivated approximately 5 seconds after the "DISABLE" sensors have been uncovered.

5. The flashers will turn OFF if a train enters and then backs out of the crossing.

6.   The circuit is ready for the next train in either direction approximately five seconds after the "DISABLE" sensors are uncovered. If the departing train is still covering a "START" sensor after this time the flashers will turn on again.

7.   Manual controls can start or stop the flashers as desired. The START push button could be replaced by a toggle switch in order to keep the flashers activated during switching operations.

8.   Normal room lighting is used to detect the trains. If night operation is needed the circuit can be controlled by other circuits or by providing infrared light for the sensors.

9.   The circuit is designed to use photo-transistors but can also be controlled by CdS photocells by changing the values of resistors R1, R2 and R3.

10.   The Crossing Circuit requires a regulated 12 volt power supply. The current draw is about 3 milliamps when the flashers are OFF and about 35 milliamps when they are ON.

11.   Crossing gates and bells can be controlled buy using the MultiTrack terminal as an output to control these devices. The MultiTrack terminal is also used to connect the circuit boards together for crossings with two or more tracks.

    If you have not seen this before you may want to check it out?  If it's not what you need, sorry if I wasted your time.

Blue's suggestion of Rob Paisley's circuit is a good solution.  If you've played with any electronics and can solder, it is easy and cheap, and encompasses a solution to your plan.

Prototype practices I've observed:   

1) Main lines are automated.     

2) Sidings and yard tracks roughly parallel to the mains are also protected by the same crossing circuits, with lights and gates outside all tracks, main or yard.    

3) Spurs and yard tracks at other points are sometimes protected by lights and gates, but, there is usually a stop sign for the train crew, and a key switch, or audio detector set off by the loco's horn, to activate the circuit.  

4)non-protected crossings are flagged by the crew.   

5)A particular mainline case:  At Santa Barbara, on UP (ex-SP) coast line:  Passenger trains stop at the station, which is next to State St. (a major city arterial).  Once the automated circuitry detects the stopped train, the circuit turns off.  Any southbound train starting from the station must sound his horn until the audio sensor starts the circuit.    Have fun.

Thank you Kevin and Don, this info does help. although i am not quite ready to install electronics at this point, I was curious as to how it would be handled. I will defintley follow up on the circuitry and learn about it. Don, points 3,4,5 are helpful as well. This will guide me as to how I can operate in that one area. I assumed there were keyed sensors and have used the stop signs, but I did not realize there were audio ones as well. Thanks for the info guys. 

Steve

If it were a real railway, likely it would have had a manned crossing in the steam era where a guy (or two) with a stop sign would have flagged the crossing; either that, or there would have been a manned crossing tower with manual controls to lower the gates, if traffic warranted.

In later years, the tower and the guys would have been retired and the railway would have automated the crossing.  Before doing that, they would have rationalized the crossing, eliminating any unnecessary tracks at that location.  Probably only 3 would have been left, if that.  The mainline would have automated timing circuits set to lower gates before mainline trains got to the crossing, while the other tracks would have only had proximity detection, lowering the gates when the train was 50 feet or so away, with stop and proceed signs for trains on those tracks.  The crossover in the middle of the crossing would have been eliminated or moved away from the crossing area.

I think your crossing is a tad too complicated to be realistic on a modern railroad.

I appreciate the honest feedback Jurgen. I did ask and I do want to be as prototypical for operations as possible. Not sure what I will do as space is restricting what I want to do. Imagine that? The crossing needs to be realigned, I agree, I just won't commit right now as to when or where, but it is definitely on the take a second look to do list.

Steve

Okay Steve, here the simple solution: 

Is he DC or DCC?