Wow!

You obviously have great fun in building helixes!

I'm Dizzy

Going round n' round in all those places must place at least 2 extra hours on a train timetable - - LOL! Great work. I don't have the room, but keep thinking all that lumber and all that track would make a helluva great layout. . . .  with a bit of imagination and a few added accouterments, they could look like several giant bellows for an old fashioned iron lung.

Anyway, give space limitations, it's a great job, Climbing to a second level to give the illusion of distance has always been a problem - - even with a large basement.

My eyes are moving to a more compact, scenery intense switching layout with through trains "posing" on a mainline. My wife's washer and dryer; the furnace and hot water heater (not to mention the basement door to the outside) are the main factors forcing perspective. . . . .

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Engineer - I don't know if "fun" is the right word. "Perseverance" is probably a better description.

Dave - I think you're right. Those helices probably do add 2 extra hours on the train timetable! But that actually works in my favor. Eventually I'd like to have some operating sessions with a few other people, but most of my operating is done alone. So usually I put a long through freight of 30-40 cars on the mainline loop and let it go, while I switch in the yard or run a local freight or mine shifter to switch the industries. Those helices really lengthen the mainline loop so that through freight doesn't pass me every 2 minutes, making local switching a real pain. Since I'm not really watching the through freight (though I am listening for derailment problems if any), the fact that it has to traverse through the helices is really a non-factor, and as I said actually enhances my solo operating scheme.

Out of curiousity -

How many linear feet of track do you have in those helixes? 

Hey David Calhoun

What size is your laundry room layout?  I've finally been able to secure a 17ft long by 2ft wide side of a garage for a layout and am now trying to figure out how I should develop it.  I was hoping to get some tips from you or see your track plan.  

I'm thinking of modeling Colinwood Yard at one end and perhaps a local Cleveland industry on the other end.  

If if anyone has some suggestions for track plans, please let me know.

Thanks,

John

@ Jeff

Good question. Let's see: 2 x 3.1415 x 30" x (4.625 turns on helix one + 3.625 turns on helix two + 4.625 turns on helix three + 3.625 turns on helix four) = 3110" = 259'. 

When I run a virtual train at a scale 30 mph on my track plan with XTrackCad it takes 14 actual minutes to complete the mainline loop through the staging deck, 4 helices, main deck, and upper deck. 

Great work Paul. That is some

Great work Paul. That is some fine workmanship on those uppers and downers or maybe vertical transitions.

I would suggest only doing scenery on the side that is in contact with the rest of the layout so at least plenty of the helix is visible. Those things look great. With your track work helpers should be just fine if you exercise care with speed matching.

Covering it up.

I like the idea I have seen for covering the helix is to completely cover the outside with masonite or similar but leave a 2 inch wide vertical slot so you can see the trains going past from a distance. If you need to see more stick your eye up next to the slot and you can see most of the interior of the helix. The one I liked best had a peice of perspex the same thickness as the masonite so the exterior looked finished and had a switch so you could turn on an interior light.

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@ Rob:

Thanks for the compliment. I am in fact planning to do just what you said and have finished scenery only to the layout side of the helix. There will however be scenery above each helix set as part of the upper deck. 

I'm glad to hear you think the helper will work on the helix. I can't wait to do some trial tests. Hopefully my inexperience won't put the train on the floor!

@ Graeme

What you suggest sounds somewhat similar to what I did on my old layout. Here's a picture. 

You can see that I cut viewing ports in the fascia so you could see the trains from a distance like you said. But if you wanted to see more you could put your face right in front of the port and see the whole mountain interior and helix structure.

Helix covers

You are a helix building machine. I like your mock up covers. I think if you put masonite on the inside of the helix where you have it open to the outside so you can't look into or through the helix that would also help. Paint that stuff sky blue and it will almost be like just another part of the layout. Have to be careful about access, but as long as you can reach it from outside it would seem that closing off the inside shouldn't be a problem. 

Randy

Living thru you Paul

@ Randy

Randy,

You've got an interesting idea with the inside cover. I'll have to chew on that one. I've been trying to keep the inside of the helix open so I can access the helix for tracking cleaning and maintenance chores, but if I leave the outside open, maybe that won't be so critical. 

@ Kevin

Kevin,

Glad you're still following along. 

Did you get the recent email I sent you with my track plan files? When I heard your computer got hacked by a ransom virus, I resent you the files in case you wouldn't be able to recover them.

Hope you'll be able to get working on your own layout soon and I'll get the chance to see pictures of your progress!

Paul, if your running trains

Paul, if your running trains that have the locomotives well matched it should not be a problem. You watched my video of the 2-6-6-6s running with a 105 car train which went up down and through many different curves and grades. That train ran hands off for more than 4 hours non stop, I did change the speed a couple of times but that was it. I would expect that same train to run on your layout all day if needed no problem. Your logic behind it could involve your yard and engine terminal being between two division points that have a saw tooth profile between them so helpers are used for braking and power between the division points. Your yard can be one to serve the local industries and the mines, which will likely justify the terminal and yard. The key is to find locomotives that run well together and let them stay together.

One way you could do this with your diesel fleet would be two have 2 teams of locos. Say your road engine is an Athearn SD40 and A Bowser C630. Even if they don't run perfectly together having them coupled to each other will help mitigate the difference. Then your pusher could be another Athearn SD40 and a Bowser C630 and their performance should be very similar to the other set. I would use the same decoder and the same programing on each locomotive. They should work out real well together.

The slack on longer trains

The slack on longer trains would be more forgiving but shorter trains have less load and produce smaller effects. In the case of the 105 car train, that train would stall on the ruling grade with one engine. A helper takes part of the load and that load changes while the train is running. Curves produce load as well. Now if the train was say 40 cars something along the lines of what you are planning for your layout a pair of decent diesels will easily pull it easily around your layout. Now if you have heavy cars and hit the grade the lead units will slow down and begin transferring some of the weight to the trail units even though the load would not cause them to stall. As the load gets picked up by the trailing units it will equalize and then balance. Even a train the length you are talking about will have a couple of inches of slack in the couplers and the load will change very close to one car at a time. By comparison one Engine can pull the 105 car train on level track so there will be times that the train is stretched.

I would suspect if you were going to have problems it might be with trains shorter than say 10 or 15 cars as the load can change severely at the transitions and might string line on the curves. I can hardly wait to see you posting videos of your trains navigating the layout.

@ Rob

Rob,

I've never had an engine that can pull 105 cars on level track.  Are you talking about your 2-6-6-6 steam engines here, or some other engines? I know you weight your cars more than NMRA standards and you have made a believer out of me on that account. Do you add weight to your engines? If so, do you have any particular weight standards for the engines, as you do with your cars? Or do you have some other secret special recipe to get them to pull so many cars? 

The engine I am referring to

The engine I am referring to is the 2-6-6-6 locomotive. I had applied a film of Bullfrog snot to the wheels. In some cases I do add weight to them. I added about 5 to 5.5 oz each to a pair of Broadway limited locomotives J1 2-10-4s and that dramatically improved their power. In those instances I spread the weight out over the drivers and in the smoke box.

I am not 100 percent pleased with the bullfrog snot and I will be cleaning the wheels and trying additional weight and see how that works. One way I have found to test the effects is with sheet lead bent into a U shape and placed over the shell of the locomotive. If it makes a good difference it is worth the effort to add the weight.

I hope adding weight will allow me to reach the same performance level with out the dirt magnet effect on the wheels and allow all wheels to pickup electricity as they were originally designed.

In model railroaders test with the strain gage they have stated that with traction tires it will pull over 100 free rolling cars on straight and level track. In one of their other reviews they stated that the Atlas HO trainmaster will pull 60 of the same cars. After cleaning and lubricating mine will pull more than 85 each with nothing else done to the locomotives, I suspect my cars offer less resistance than their free rolling estimate.

As to standards for adding weight I do not have any. I generally test the locomotives to see if additional weight will help and still want the wheels to be able to slip under extreme conditions. It is like that old adage somethings gona give and the thing I want to fail is the traction and not the motor or decoder.

So far something in the nature of 5 to 6 oz seems to make a huge difference on the locomotives I have tried it on and with the 2-6-6-6s I may go to 8 oz if I continue to see gains by adding weight.

I'll let you know how it works out.

Question...

I have looked and looked at you excellent photographs of the helix construction...call me stupid but could you explain the vertical supports and how they are made and attached. Are the notches all cut the same distance apart, or spaced, on the vertical supports and then off-set vertically to match the rise of the roadbed? My question make sense?

Thanks, John

@ John

John,

I think I understand what you're asking. If I miss the mark, let me know, and I'll try again.

Let me start by saying the bottom level of the lower helix at each end of the layout is made out of 5/8" plywood. Here's a picture of what it looked like when I started the lower helix at each end of the layout.

The lower layer is then supported by risers attached to the bench work framing. Each riser gets higher as you go around the bottom layer and establishes the proper grade or incline for the helix, which in my case is a grade of about 1.8%.

Since the supports that hold up the rest of the helix are attached to the bottom level made of plywood, I don't need to offset the notches vertically as you mentioned. I cut all the notches on the support the same distance apart. That means I space them out 3.25" from the top of one notch to the top of the next notch, because that's the railhead to railhead separation I'm looking for.

Here's a couple pictures of how the supports are attached. 

The supports for the upper helices were made the same way. The only difference was the vertical spacing between each helix. The distance there was wider, and so the notches were cut further apart as needed. You can see that different vertical separation in the following picture.

 Hope that helps!

Paul you have done such a

Paul you have done such a nice job with your helix that everyone will want one now.

@ Rob

Rob,

Thanks for the compliment. But everyone wanting a helix now....ooooooh, that's a scary thought! Non-model railroaders will for sure then think that all we do is run our trains around in a circle! 

By the way, I forgot to thank you for the info regarding your engine weight modifications. Not sure if I'm actually going to go that route with my engines quite yet, but will definitely keep your suggestions in mind.

I get it...I think.

So the first level, set to the correct grade, sets the grade for all the other levels by virtue of the vertical supports with notches cut to the correct spacing to match the grade. Right?

Thanks Paul, layout is looking good.

John

@ John

John,

You've got it! The first level sets the grade for the rest of the helix. Since the notches on the supports are all cut at the same distance apart (3.25"), the grade of the lowest level will be duplicated on the upper levels of the helix.