David Calhoun

Either operator or equipment error is all I can figure. After two tries, my static grass is not standing up. I am using the following:

1. Grass applicator from Micro-Mark with 2 D-cell batteries (brand new) with a strainer type screen.

2. Enlarged the holes with a hat pin and have good flow when "tapping" the plastic arm.

3. Using a finishing nail as a ground into the cork or foam area to be applied.

4. Using Woodland Scenics static grass flocking material.

5. Mix of two colors ground up by shaking and using a paint mixer to break up any clumps.

6. Using a 50/50 glue water mixture liberally over area to be done.

The grass falls evenly over the area but does not stand up. Am holding the strainer less than 1 inch from the surface and no more than 5-6 inches from the grounding nail. After applying, if I use an empty applicator and hold it over the area applied (almost touching the "ground") strands do stand up but are connected to the applicator screen. If I release the charge button, the grass falls to a clump. If I drag the applicator, the strands elongate but do not remain standing.

My frustration factor is now a 20 on a scale of 1-10! I'd appreciate some advice on talking me through the steps for proper application. I have even tried using a large hat pin as a ground but get the same results. IT AIN'T STANDING UP!

Okay, what am I doing wrong? What am I doing right? Suggestions? Observations? I see so many pictures here of beautiful results and am not ready to give up on making a really nice scene. Thanks for your input... . . . 

Chief Operating Officer

The Greater Nickel Plate

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rickwade

Possible defective applicator?

The grass should stand up with the applicator 1-1/2 to 2" above it.   

Rick

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The Richlawn Railroad Website - Featuring the L&N in HO  / MRH Blog  / MRM #123

Mt. 22: 37- 40

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David Calhoun

Defective?

Maybe the "new" batteries aren't that new? There is a spark touching the nail, but perhaps I need to change batteries . . . . . 

 

Chief Operating Officer

The Greater Nickel Plate

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Kevin Rowbotham

Check the batteries

If you have a multimeter, test the batteries.  In my opinion they should be near 1.6 volts if new and If below 1.5 they should be replaced.

3 volt applicators are among the lower powered applicators, this one is likely comparable to many fly swatter applicators.  The fly swatter applicator I built could not work too far from the ground spike or more than an inch above the surface, and it tended to be slightly less effective nearer the edges of the screen, but the grass definitely stood up.

From your description I am guessing the batteries need replacing or the applicator is defective/ineffective?

~Kevin

Appreciating Modeling In All Scales but majoring in HO!

Not everybody likes me, luckily not everybody matters.

Reply 0
rsn48

I'm wondering about the wires

I'm wondering about the wires to the nail and the connection at the nail of the wires.  Sounds like the juice isn't getting through.

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Rustman

Your glue is too thin

Been down this road myself and discovered best results with full strength matte medium or modge podge instead of diluted any. In fact a couple of weeks ago Dad and I did a bunch of test pieces so environmental conditions were all the same. As the glue gets thinner more of the grass falls over once you take away the static charge. 

Reading your post again I see that there might be an issue with your applicator. But give a couple inch test section on a scrap of wood or foam a try with 100% glue.

Matt

"Well there's your problem! It's broke."

http://thehoboproletariat.blogspot.com/

 

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David Calhoun

Defective Applicator

Thanks for all the suggestions. Tried everything in order to eliminate any flaws - result is a return of product to the company. Despite a small spark, the material does not get a static charge. So, with a new applicator in a week or so, we'll try again.

Chief Operating Officer

The Greater Nickel Plate

Reply 0
Martin Welberg Martin Welberg

Simple test

Davis, the batteries can be tested easily, if they are full strength there would be a 4,5mm spark between the groundclip and the mesh, if not then it's the batteries or the applicator. With 4.5kV it can be that there are some small tricks needed. But I do like to know what kinda glue you're using ? With normal wood glue you need to work fast, it tends to build up a skin in 5 minutes and no fiber will stand. Full strength matte medium would work ok I think, Modge Podge is rather thick if I remember, can be thinned. A dry environment can be one of the reasons to, Didn't reach the results I wanted with the Noch 1.0 and a little trick is to mist some water around the area you wanna grass..thin glue with a bit of salt water is another..

But in my humble opinion the applicator lacks power with only 4.5kV..

Regards from the Netherlands

Martin Welberg

Reply 0
UPWilly

Perhaps this is the solution ...

... or at least identifies the cause:

"When first using static grass, I tried Woodland Scenics brand.  Was very disappointed.  It did not stand up and the finished appearance was more like a "wild field of long grass that had just been mowed".

This (above) is the comment by musgrovejb in this post (2 weeks ago):

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/grass-help-12199639

 

Bill D.

egendpic.jpg 

N Scale (1:160), not N Gauge. DC (analog), Stapleton PWM Throttle.

Proto-freelance Southwest U.S. 2nd half 20th Century.

Keep on trackin'

Reply 0
jcklocke

In my opinion, I would return

In my opinion, I would return the device to Micro Mark and get a different applicator altogether.    I have bought ant tried about 5 different kinds/brands and by far the best one is the "Flock-it-Rocket" by Grasstech.  I have used it now for about 2 years on my CGW layout and results have been consistent and very good.   The advantage to this machine is that the charging unit is a carriage bolt in the applicator cup.   This ensures a thorough charge throughout the material.

Here are a couple of pics of my results with it.......

Jason Klocke

Humboldt, IA

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Reply 0
musgrovejb

Silflor

Never had good results with Woodland Scenics static grass.  I use Silflor static grass and happy with the results. 

Joe

Modeling Missouri Pacific Railroad's Central Division, Fort Smith, Arkansas

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLENIMVXBDQCrKbhMvsed6kBC8p40GwtxQ

 

Reply 0
Michael Whiteman

What kind of glue

are you using?  Not that it really matters.  Anything that is wet will conduct the electrical charge.  I use hair spray because it dries instantly without leaving a discoloration of the ground cover.  In my opinion battery operated units do not generate enough power to get the job done.  I would build your own using at least a 7 KV ion generator that is powered from a wll outlet.  These really make the grass stand up and don't cost that much to construct.  Around $10 for mine.

Reply 0
joef

Demo video of a static grass applicator in working order

Check out this video I did many years ago on YouTube that shows a static grass applicator in good working order ...

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Read my blog

Reply 0
wsdimenna

never found 50/50 mixture to work

The above says it all.  Never found 50/50 mixture to work well. All the demos I have seen use a straight glue or a wet terrain with glue already in base.  Have used all the commercially available applicators (for product testing) available through Scenic express, and they all worked.  Have used both Noch and Silfor grasses in 2, 6 and 12 mm. 

have been able to work up to a foot away from clip without any problem. The 12 mm is a bit more problematic, in terms of being straight up.  Once done go over area with empty gun close to grass to stand loose fibers

 

there are some glues that are made for static grass. If using Elmers glue , use the School version  as it dries more from the inside out. The white glue gets crusty on outside first  (note from Jim @scenic express).

 

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