Onewolf

I plan to get started building a rather large HO layout within a couple of months (pending completion of detached garage/workshop).  The layout will be 28ft x 32ft and three levels (mushroom design).  I plan to use Digitrax DCC to control the layout.  My previous layout was much smaller and much simpler and was controlled by a Digitrax DCS-150 and DB-150 booster.  It used NCE Switch-its and tortoise to control turnouts.

I have done searches for DCC track wiring advice but I'm having trouble sifting through much of the seeming conflicting advice.

For those people who have designed/wired a large DCC layout, what advice would you have on these topics:

How do you decide how many booster districts?

What size boosters (5A vs 8A)?

The layout will support ~60 locomotives. I will have both sound and non sound locomotives.  Currently the non sound locomotives outnumber the sound locomotives about 4:1 but that ratio will probably start changing going forward.

I assume physical geography will play a part in DCC booster count and location because of the 30ft bus length limit?

Is it better to run track feeder to distribution bars and then tie distribution bars to the main DCC bus wires?

What's the best way to wire turnout control bus?  Separate power and DCC control buses for the turnouts? 

The layout will have approx 80 turnouts driven by tortoises.

Are there "standard" DCC wiring color schemas?

Good places to purchase bulk wire?

I'm looking for any/all advice so I can start constructing the layout with a DCC wiring plan that will allow long term reliability and maintainability.

Thanks.

- My layout build thread -

Reply 0
Logger01

physical geography - Layout Diagrams?

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I assume physical geography will play a part in DCC booster count and location because of the 30ft bus length limit?

Absolutely - Before beginning to answer several of your questions it would be helpful to have complete layout diagrams. (Beware the layout auditors will probably begin dissecting your layout before answering your questions .)

Quote:

Is it better to run track feeder to distribution bars and then tie distribution bars to the main DCC bus wires?

That is really a personal choice. I hate having to cut wires when there is a problem. Therefor, I prefer to run drops from the power buses to terminal blocks and then to the track or accessory. A bit more work but it has saved us many times.

Quote:

What's the best way to wire turnout control bus? Separate power and DCC control buses for the turnouts?

Again that is somewhat a personal wiring decision, but I prefer separate buses. However, lately with the addition of several LNRPXTRA LocoNet Repeater Modules the need for separate control buses is greatly reduced. For some reading on the why and how of LocoNet wiring I would recommend reading the North Raleigh Model Railroad Club's (NRMRC) DCC for NTRAK Layouts — Design & Operational Considerations [PDF] and LocoNet & LocoNet Cables [PDF] publications. NTrack but still applicable.

Quote:

Are there "standard" DCC wiring color schemas?

No. There are some color code standards for modules, but none for fixed layouts. I would suggest that you pick one and stick with it. I chose red and black for the track DCC bus, yellow and gray for the accessory DCC bus, gray insulated cable for the main LocoNet bus, and blue insulated cable for the accessory LocoNet bus. I also distributed 12 VDC for accessories and lighting on orange and purple (was a real cheep find) bus.

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Good places to purchase bulk wire?

For the #14 and #12 solid wire and phone cable, I found that buying individual colors in bulk (500 ft. rolls) from a local electrical supply houses was cheaper than the local Big Box and most discount stores. This was also generally true for smaller gages, but for some colors I ordered 100 -250 foot rolls from Mouser, Digi-key or Newark.

Ken K

gSkidder.GIF 

Reply 0
NDHolmes

A few thoughts on your questions

A few thoughts from things I've picked up through the years, having been "the electrical guy" for a number of layouts and now getting around to building my second moderately sized layout.  As a disclaimer, what follows are my opinions and observations.  There are dozens of ways to do this, but this is what works for me.

Booster districts require a lot of thinking about your operating plan and adding up how much current you expect it to draw.  For example, a large yard with a bunch of sound-equipped engines just idling will take a fair amount of current.  Think about how you intend to operate, and how many engines will likely be in a given section at any given time, and give yourself some margin.  For me, that involved thinking about what trains would run during an operation session, how many motors each would have, what happens when the big ones have to meet, where power would congregate when it wasn't doing anything.  I'm in N, but I usually figure on 0.4A per engine without sound and 0.7A with sound when running at maximum load and maximum volu.  Idling I figure is 0.1-0.2A.  Modern HO engines don't draw that much more.

On top of boosters, I'd strongly consider adding breakers like the Powershield series.  My theory on breakers is that nobody should ever come to a halt because a train they can't see derailed.  (Likewise, the mainline should not stop because the yard trim job split a switch.)  It frustrates the operators, leads to a lot of "okay, who's shorting things out" being yelled around, and generally destroys the illusion we're trying to create in an operating sesssion.  So, each station area on my layout is one breaker district.  In addition, I try to put the mainline only halfway to the next station in that same district, but it's not always possible.  Sometimes there's no intermediate signal, and therefore no good place to have a separation between breakers, and thus the district runs all the way to the next station.  But I try.

My personal opinion is to stick to 5A boosters if you don't plan to use circuit breakers.  Less power to melt and weld things with shorts inevitably happen.  If you do use good breakers, then it's less of a concern.

Put the switch machines on a separate power booster if you can.  No need to run them off a separate system, but with separate power, when somebody runs through a switch and shorts out the track booster, you'll still be able to throw the switch and fix the problem.  If the switch loses power because the track loses power, that's just an irritant. 

The 30ft limit is a suggestion, not a limit.  If your wiring isn't hideous, you can usually safely go beyond this.  If you have the choice of locating the booster centrally to the district that it's powering and stay within 30 feet each direction, by all means, do that.  There's no point in taunting the laws of physics and Mr. Murphy if you don't need to.  However, there are some times it just doesn't work out.  By "not hideous", I mean that you should always run everything in balanced pairs (meaning everywhere there's a wire for rail A, there should also be a wire for railb) and keep both track power wires together (preferably as 2 conductor cable or twisted individual conductors).  Keep your track power bundle away from your signal lines (cab bus, DCC booster bus, etc.)  Make good solid joints everywhere, and never skimp on wire gauge.  The main danger of these long runs is lots of inductance, which can cause killer voltage spikes (well, killer to your decoders, anyway...)  Good balanced wiring practices minimize this.  If you have access to an oscilloscope, you can verify that you're not getting inductive voltage spikes that will kill decoders and such.  If not, just throw an easily-made RC snubber circuit at the end of any excessively long bus for safety. 

There's no standard color code.  The important thing is that you pick a color code and you adhere to it like a zealot.  My under-construction personal layout uses blue and white for DCC power, because I use 24AWG network cross-connect wire for track feeders and I could get bulk blue and white dual conductor wire dirt cheap.   My 24V accessory power bus is yellow and black, 8-12V power is red and black, and then there's a myriad of colored Cat5 cables for data (grey for ethernet, green for MRBus, purple for serial, orange for NCE cab bus, blue for DCC booster data bus, yada yada yada...).   Also, I'd strongly suggest wire labels and keeping a basic schematic of the layout in a notebook, noting color, size, and label of each run.  In a big bundle of DCC lines, they really help you quickly identify which wire feeds what, even though they're all the same colors.

Terminal blocks vs. tapping - personal choice.  I personally have quite a few blocks for signaling purposes, and each of those is fed by a bus that is soldered directly to the track feeders.  Those busses then come back, go through block detectors, and into a terminal block where they connect to the main power district feeder line.  That makes it possible to easily isolate any section by just pulling it off at the block detector, but I don't have a thousand terminal bars everywhere.  If you're starting from scratch and careful, this works.  However, on other more electrically "troubled" layouts that I've rewired, I use terminal bars everywhere so that I can find problems without cutting wires.  It's a lifesaver.

As far as power wire and where to get it...  I prefer stranded for everything just because it's easier to work with, so I skip the usual suggestions about romex and such.  If you can bear a bit of experimentation on vendors and products, actually audio wire from places like eBay can be a tremendous bargain.  Just be aware of two things:  much of it is CCA (copper clad aluminum), which has only about 70% the conductivity of pure copper, and some of it is woefully undersized for the advertised wire gauge.  The conductivity issue can be solved by just running about 2AWG bigger (so 12 rather than 14), and the "woefully undersized" bit is solved by avoiding certain vendors.  Otherwise, the stuff is wonderful to work with - flexible insulation, finely stranded, copper clad so it oxidizes and solders just like copper, and unbelievably cheap.   I picked up 500ft of dual conductor 12AWG CCA for a bit over 70 bucks about a year ago.  It really is 12 AWG, and I measured the resistance when it came in, and it's just about that of 14 AWG pure copper.  That's my main bus line.  The local sub-busses are 16AWG pure copper that I also picked up off eBay, because I didn't want to deal with such large conductors locally. 

I realize I've rambled on, but hopefully that helps.

Nathan H

Reply 0
Onewolf

Thanks!

Much appreciation for the thoughtful replies so far.  They have been quite helpful. 

If anyone else has thoughts/opinions please reply!

Reply 0
2tracks

DCC wiring

Onewolf,

 

Try this site for some options on wiring your layout....a boatload of info here....

http://www.WiringForDCC.com

Jerry

Jerry

"The Only Consistency Is The Inconsistency"
Reply 0
barr_ceo

Well, if you want it bulletproof...

Well, if you want it bulletproof...

The North Raleigh Model Railroad Club has literally written the book on DCC applications on large layouts... and yours doesn't even come close to their largest size.  The compiled info is the result of years of experience of club DCC layout masters across the country with huge N-Trak setups that have to go together quickly and be running as soon as possible. Boosters, length and amp settings for power districts, networking of throttles and boosters, it's all there. 

Here's a link to their web site: http://www.trainweb.org/nrmrc/

The manuals are under the "DCC Design for Layouts" heading.

Read my Journal / Blog...

!BARR_LO.GIF Freelanced N scale Class I   Digitrax & JMRI

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