Final thickness of Envirotex

ChrisNH's picture
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Hi,

I am curious about how deep my envirotex will end up being after a couple of pours, and whether my plan is going to be sufficent to the need. This is what I am doing...

I am in the process of putting in a 1/4" plywood base for the envirotex water scene I intend to have on my layout. The bridge, abutment, and vegetation is to be patterened after this photo:

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2003110714511910953.jpg

Although for purposes of trying out a scene that plays out over and over in New England along river banks and lakes I am having the line skirt the edge of the river on a causeway as in these pictures:

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2005041422143822936.jpg

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?200711171118012047.jpg

Its a plate girder bridge so the water is relatively close to the bridge, else it would be a deck bridge. I measured the first photo and using the height of the locomotive as a general guide figured the water needed to be 1.5" or 20 feet above the water to look right.

The edge of the facia is going to be my "dam" on the front end. I put it in so that it is 1/4" above the height of the plywood base which rests on a wood lip glued to the facia both to keep the facia straight at that point as well as to act a  way to set the height as I level the base. Unfortunately, wife has me painting the bathroom, so that will be later tonight :(.

Anyway.. my original thought was I would be pouring two layers of about 1/8" envirotex over the base which would be sealed with acrylic gloss medium ala Dave Frary's scenery book. I have a pint of Envirotex Lite to cover abot 2 sq feet. Am I in the right ballpark? Do I need to plan for deeper envirotex? Is two pours about right?

For the vegetation on the side.. should I put it all in place and then pour, or perhaps do a layer, glue in vegetation, then do my final layer? Or maybe do it all at the end so the envirotex doesnt creep up on the greenery?

After I have the envirotex in I plan to use the Acrylic Gloss Medium to create ripples and eddies.

I know I have lots of questions.. thanks for any feedback. I am really excited about putting together this scene. It is the primary focus of the "scenic side" of my practice layout.

Thanks,

Chris
 




joef's picture

Actually ...

Chris:

Actually, for flat lakes or relatively still bodies of water without a lot of stuff sticking up out of the water, I don't recommend envirotex.

Just paint your flat area deep areas a black-blue, and then feather that out into the shallows into your dirt and rock colors. Then paint the acrylic gloss medium straight onto the flat painted area representing your body of water, applying it in a thin level coat. Let it dry a couple of days and then come back and apply a second coat of the gloss medium, this time applying it thicker in streaks with little humps to simulate small ripples.

You'll find this works very well to simulate a large flat water area like you're envisioning, and it's a lot simpler than large flat area pours of envirotex.

Joe Fugate
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

Joe Fugate's HO Siskiyou Line

bear creek's picture

If you use envirotex it will

If you use envirotex it will tend to 'wick' up into any bushes surrounding your water way. One of the chief reasons for envirotex is to allow the onlooker to see bottom detail in the water. Logs, boulders, old oil drums, dead refrigerators, maybe the local gangsters get away car, etc.

For my waterways in the past I've used Envirotex and its worked nicely (in 3d mode).

But you WILL spend time dealing with where it crawls up the sides of everything in contact with it. If you're doing a large pour it can also be a huge pain to deal with. Craig Bisgeier talks about the difficulties he had with the stuff pouring around Wilson Point on his 1895 Housatonic Railroad in his Construction Journal www.housatonicrr.com/

It also sets up absolutely smooth (except along the sides of embedded objects). If you want ripples on it you'll need to come back with Acryllic Gloss Medium and paint the ripples on it. If you want rolling waves forget about Envirotex - it's too flat. Some of the casting resins set with a waviness on their surface but resin smells like a hydro-carbon based skunk has been in your train room for at least a month after pouring it. Theres also a good discussion of water types in the Frary / Hayden Scenery Book from Kalmbach.

Good luck (and take lots of pictures!)

Charlie

 Contributing Editor, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

joef's picture

Chris, here's an example

Chris, here's an example of just acrylic gloss medium on a flat area where you've painted it to look like the bottom contours:

 

In your case, I'd color the deep areas a blue-black instead of a silty green like I used here in my scene of Coalbank Slough. I colored my deep areas to match prototype photos of the actual slough:

Notice how the deep areas in this prototype photo are a darkish olive green, which I call a "silty green". The light blue areas are actually a reflection of the sky, and if you get down low, the ripply gloss medium will give you the same effect.

In your case, the deep areas look more of a deep midnight blue, kind of a blue-black mix. The edges look to me to be something of a warm gray, while my edges for Coalbank Slough are more of a red-brown or yellow-brown. I matched my colors to this photo while mixing all the colors under my layout lighting at this location on the layout - with the photo sitting right there as reference as I mixed the colors. If you do that, the colors will look just like the photo and it will look pretty darn close to the real thing.

 

Joe Fugate
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

Joe Fugate's HO Siskiyou Line

ChrisNH's picture

What gloss medium?

That looks just like what I want.. excellent work by the way.. it sounds like gloss medium is the way to go. I will save the envirotex for elsewhere on the layout. I think I can find a spot to do a small water feature. I definitely want to get some experience with it at some point.

What gloss medium do you use? I have the Modge Podge gloss.. but I have heard Modge Podge can turn yellow over time. I intended it primarily for sealing. I looked at Liquitex but they have three different viscosity.. a thick gel, a thin gel, and a more liquidy one. I can pick up whatever with the weekly 50% off coupons.

Thanks!

Chris

nice pics, btw, Charlie!

“If you carry your childhood with you, you never become older.”           My modest progress Blog

rfbranch's picture

Yes I'm the guy dragging up a 2 1/2 year old post....

This was 1 1/2 kids (one is still baking) , one wedding, and three mortgages ago for me but I'm curious about the gloss medium.  What did you use Joe?  I'm looking to make something just like what you've done there.

Thanks for looking at my "blast from the past"!

 

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~Rich

Proto-Freelanced Carfloat Operation, Brooklyn, NY c.1974

For those interested come check out my Wisconsin Badger Football blog: BuckAround

rtw3rd's picture

Jumping in - Gloss Medium

Rich,

I know that Joe will forgive me for answering his question.  Check out this link for information on Gloss Medium available at Hobby Lobby and a ga-zillion other places that sell artist paint supplies:

http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/gloss-medium-and-varnish-864256/

 

A quote about it: 

Liquitex Gloss Medium and Varnish is formulated to work as an all purpose medium which can be mixed into all Liquitex Acrylic Paints but can also be used as a Varnish as well! It’s great because it does double duty. Simply mix with your paint to increase transparency, gloss and the flow of your paint. This medium is translucent when wet and transparent when dry. Can also be used as a non-removable acrylic varnish that dries to a hard but flexible surface that is also non-yellowing. Liquitex Gloss Medium and Varnish is available from Cheap Joe’s in either a 8oz., 16oz, or 32oz. bottles. This product is an essential for any collection of acrylic painting supplies.

 

Rick

Rick

The Richlawn Railroad Website - Featuring the L&N in HO  / MRH Blog  /  

rfbranch's picture

Appreciated Rick

Thanks Rick!  T

he art supply store here has a whole shelf of the stuff and I wanted to make sure I picked up the right stuff.  The effect in that photograph is exactly what I'm after in my harbor scene.  I wanted to make sure I picked up the right brand (i.e. no yellowing) as I'll be filling a fiarly large area with the stuff!

 

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~Rich

Proto-Freelanced Carfloat Operation, Brooklyn, NY c.1974

For those interested come check out my Wisconsin Badger Football blog: BuckAround

rtw3rd's picture

You're welcome, Rich!

Rich,

I'm glad that I could be of help.  If I can make a suggestion:  Practice making your water scene off the railroad on a piece of scrap.  I did this for my pond and it took a number of times and different colors to get the result I wanted (which was a greenish pond color).  I made careful notes of the colors I tried before I found the color I liked, which was custom mixed.  Even though I used EnviroTex for the water, the idea is the same for Matt Medium.  I used the EnviroTex because my pond water is very still / stagnant.  Here's a picture of that area:

Rick

Rick

The Richlawn Railroad Website - Featuring the L&N in HO  / MRH Blog  /  

joef's picture

Here's what I use

I used Liquitex acrylic gloss medium ... just dabbed it on with a small #2 or so artists paint brush, and made no attempt to smooth it out - I left it with lots of little humps and bumps to create a rippled effect.

Joe Fugate
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

Joe Fugate's HO Siskiyou Line

Rio Grande Dan's picture

Using Joe's Method is the

Using Joe's Method is the easiest way to make convincing water of any type from small ponds and slow moving streams to rushing rivers and expansive lakes.

I have used Liquitex Acrylic Mat Medium and Gloss Medium to achieve different water effects for years and have had many people tell me my rivers and lakes look so real they almost believe they can get their fingers wet by touching it.

The next best thing about this product is, should the surface become scratched and dull for any reason you only need clean it with Windex Glass cleaner and add another Coat of Liquitex on top to refurbish your water effects.

Rio Grande Dan


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