More info needed...

For easy reference, could you draw the filing cabinets on your drawing please?

Also how high off the floor are the electrical cabinet doors?

The filing cabinets are under

The filing cabinets are under the stairs. The electrical cabinets have shelving below to the floor so the whole area is consumed. Here is a revised drawing however:

"My question is what is the

     John Armstrong defined "conventional" HO radius as 24 inch and "sharp" as 18 inch. So you could probably get away with 22 inch but it wouldn't look as good as 24 inch unless you are modeling a congested city industrial area or a carfloat operation wedged onto a city block. So bottom line is design for 24 inch if at all possible and if you need to go sharper stay as close to 24 inch as you can.....DaveB

some ideas....

This plan has nothing less than 22" radius, mostly much larger.

Now that's what I am talking

Now that's what I am talking about! I never envisioned something like that. I was assuming an around the walls concept such as this: But I really like the operating pit on the left and aisle on the right. Here is where I was going but not happy with that. I really like what you've done Bill!

well...

thank you, I'm glad to be of service

Looking at it now, I was going to suggest you could hide some staging for the interchange yard in the book shelves.

@ GregW

How about making list of your druthers in two parts.

You need to state if you want switching or allow trains to run through scenery or both.  State where is the location of this railroad.  Do you plan to have a seaport?  Is it in the desert? Is it a city?  Or is it some specific location? Provide date range in the example of; 1940 to 1950.  You can make it more specific or broaden the time period.  What does this railroad do?

Also, is this a portable layout or a moveable layout?  Portable being modular traveling to shows.  Moveable in the sense if you relocate the layout can be moved to that location.

Do you see in Bill's example above, you have two areas you would have to crawl under.  We call the duckunder.  What are your thoughts on this.  Do you want to avoid duckunders?  Could you use lift out sections or gates?

Now make a list of what you must have.  Include the type of industries you want. 

Then make a list of what you would like to have, but could live without.  For example; you want to include a high trestle, but could live without it.

Once you figure all that out the good folks here can help you design the layout of your dreams.

Den

@ Den

You are correct sir! With my initial post I was looking for an idea of where I could put the mainline etc... Bill has offered that nicely. Now to the details as you suggest... I have to go offline for the rest of the day but will be back tomorrow with answers to your questions and we can get into the meat of this project...

Duckunders

In my own experience duckunders get old really fast. Plan for a lift out if at all possible and preferably on a straight section. A whole lot easier to make and support then on a curve.

Curves - If you can hide part of it you can make it sharper. And then it is easier to push them back toward the corner leaving more room in front for scenery and or structures.

Jack

Because space is tight

Keep in mind that the height selection can influence how much space is actually available.  The railroad could be designed to have two levels on one side but one on the other.  It really is a three dimensional space.  You may want to keep it simple for now with some growth plans in mind.  Armstrong's G&D's always help you focus.  Remember less is more a lot of times, particularly when space is tight.

Pertaining to the minimum radius question.  The minimum is as tight as your stuff will stay on the track.  The tighest curves can be used where they are less visible.  The visual impression also differs if the curve is concave or convex.  The center overhangs on the concave side and the ends over hang on the convex side.  I believe the concave side is the lesser of evils.  But it matters only if you can see it.

Should be an interesting evolution,

The thing about electrical cabinets

is you sometimes have to find them in the dark. They also need to be accessible by expensive people from time to time. So I strongly suggest you keep them clear. Are you sure the bookcases can't be moved? They would look so much  better over by the file cabinets.

If this were my space, I'd do a shelf along the long wall and put my workbench against the stairs.

pqe

Another key question

How tall are the electrical boxes.  How tall are the bookcases?  Can you work over the top of them and leave access underneath?

Do you have further specifics?

What sort of industries do you have?  what kinds of cars do you want to run?  

I strongly recommend AGAINST compromising on curve radius, especially on any mainline location.   You'll surely regret it. 

A layout is like a tattoo.  Both are long term things, and once you build it,   its not necessarily easy to remove or alter it into something satisfying.   And just like a tattoo,  what you want to run today may not be what you want to run 5 or even 10 years from now.  

You don't need ultra broad curves (though that would be preferable),   but you should make every effort to put in larger curves, even if you have to sacrifice a few other features in order to fit them in.

This isn't necessarily an aesthetic choice either.  The reliable operation of some larger locomotives and cars depend on it.
 

no compromises

I checked the radius of the curves in the little plan I threw together...

I'll try to answer your

I'll try to answer your questions to give some focus. I am not interested in scenery. While I appreciate other's work, rolling hills with lots of trees doesn't do it for me. I like industrial switching, but there will also be times I want to let a train roll as I show off what I have done to others. 

Dates are difficult for me. My equipment ranges from first generation diesels to more modern such as a GP38-2. I was hoping to have the layout looks somewhat generic in that respect. I know that is hard to do and results in an unfocused layout. Perhaps it would be best to say late 50s early 60s... and just have the other things be an anomaly. 

I have avoided much thought into the purpose of the layout... that kind of stuff gives me the willies. I am just no good at focusing. But here are a few thoughts. As I said previously I'd like an urban/industrial setting. Where Bill has placed the paper mill, I would like that to be a sawmill as I used to work at one doing, of all things, computer work. But I got a good sense of how that industry works and would like to have my own version of "Juniper Lumber". I also love yards full of cars. I simply find it visually appealing. I like straight lines and things that line up in order (I am a little OCD). What Bill has put down, I like very much. 

One other thing, that might not be possible, is a bridge. I have a double track pratt truss bridge that my father built that I'd like to incorporate and plan to build a Central Valley single track pratt truss. They may be wall display items...

I think I am stuck with lift outs. This layout will be occupying the unused church office. I am the minister and use an office in my home which shares a driveway with the church. The man that would most likely be accessing the electrical panels is 75 years old so I can't have him ducking under things. I am OK with that and also realize these appear to be curved lift outs. I don't see a way around them. In the most recent MRH there is a good example of a simple lift out section. I will likely steal that idea. 

I would like to avoid double decks. This will be constructed in a way that will allow it to be moved. There is a move in my future within 10 years. 

The electrical cabinets are

The electrical cabinets are floor to ceiling with built in shelving underneath. The bookcases are the same, floor to ceiling, built in. Can't be moved.

I like those broad curves.

I like those broad curves. They will take any equipment I can throw at them. I should also note that I expect to inherit a large collection from a friend. He is 85 and in good health but insists that since he has no heirs that he intends to bequeath his model railroad to me. He has an extensive collection ranging from SD90s to Rivarossi Big Boys and Challengers. The minimum on his layout is 30" and some of the articulateds look odd on that. I'd like to be able to run them on occasion in memory of the man and to show off to visitors. These broad radius curves will allow that.

I sort of see that main oval as an opportunity to have both ends as lift outs, allowing a straight path to the electrical cabinets. The filing cabinet area could be more cut off and harder to get at because that is just me who would ever need to get in there to look up an old marriage or baptism. It's happened once in my 5 years here. However, Bill's plan allows easy access to that so it's a bonus.

Lumber mill and bridge.

Sounds like Coos Bay Oregon would be a great setting.  Bridges along the bay a neat small yard, lumber mills with huge saw dust piles, etc. How to fit it into that space given the access problem would be a challenge..DaveB

more doodling...

*tweaked the 'south' end of the yard a bit and replaced the image

Crazy Idea

This may not be able to be done, but I just want to throw it out there; as I don't know what is right of the stairwell.  Can the door be moved to the 3' 11" wall (in gold).  If it can, you could have a "hallway" by the filling cabinets to the electrical (especially if you could remove the short wall by the electrical).  The would free up the wall space in the room for a more around the room kind of layout.  I would also consider running track through the bookshelf.

R/ Art

I can't move doors and walls.

I can't move doors and walls. This isn't my space, it belongs to the church but they know I want a space and there is non in the church supplied home I live in. I am also sure I'd draw some ire if I cut into the bookshelf. It is there for my use and I have plenty of bookshelf space in my home office so I feel OK in using the space in front of it.

With Bill's suggestion of an interchange yard, I am kind of put in mind of CPs operations in Saint John, NB in the late 80s. They split off their operations to a separate company called the Canadian Atlantic Railway. I could suggest (because I am not into being limited by pure prototype modeling) this kind of operation. Most of my locomotives are CP. If I was into prototype modeling it would be an excellent prototype as it is mostly industrial switching with a large paper mill and a single track bridge. It is currently owned by Irving's railway, the NB Southern. 

"I am kind of put in mind of

Given the temporary nature of the layout space and the need for public access I'd probably go with some kind of modular layout using the CP equipment and some scenery suggestive of the areas you are interested in. Something like the attached sketch with a lumber mill module by the stairs and a double sided backdrop dividing the yard/industrial area from the mill branch. I'd build it as modules that could be saved and re-used in a new space or larger future layout. There would be no continuous running loop but other than breaking in locos I've never found them that useful. I'd view this layout as a step toward a later one and just concentrate on building a few nice modules and a little operation now....DaveB ​

Flip the door around

While you can't move the doorway, what about having the door open into the hallway instead of into the room?  I did that in a previous home and it worked very well.  It would open up quite a bit of space for the layout and wouldn't be expensive to do. 

Marc Simpson

public building

Since it's a public building, code may require doors off the hallway to open into their contained spaces.