Pembroke 87.1

Well, Dave Doe is at it again. Every couple of years, he pulls together everyone in Europe who does anything with Proto:87 and invites them to a big display somewhere. Last year was Scaleforum, this year they're at RailWells, and next year he's enticing me to trek over to Sedan, France.

October 2015 is just about far enough away that we could consider it. It's never difficult to convince my darling wife to go to France, although she would prefer to stay in Paris. The kids are in French immersion, so we could call it an educational trip.

Dave is keen for me to come and bring some of my North American stuff. I found, when I went to Utrecht, that it was difficult to display, and anyway trains look better if they're moving. So, that's got me thinking about building a small display layout to take with me, or (more likely) to ship over there.

I would want to use Canada Atlantic equipment, and I don't have very much of that - certainly not enough for any point on the mainline. So, it's got to be a location on one of the branchlines.

The problem is, I don't have much luck with freelancing, and so, it would have to be a real place. So then, what about Locksley or Woito, along the Pembroke Southern? I know almost nothing about them. That's going to lead to more research than I have time for.

Then, I thought, why not take a piece of Pembroke, itself? Then I could reuse the buildings on the home layout. But which part? The whole of Pembroke is a lot of work, and doesn't really qualify as "small." The obvious choice is the station area, but actually, that's not all that lively.

Here's what I would do instead: take the bit around the engine shed, and pretend that the short runaround is out of commission (cars parked there). This way, every train to or from Pembroke yields many movements back and forth through the scene, and sometimes the engine gets to turn around on the turntable. I could reuse the engine house, the water tower, section buildings, and probably the turntable itself. I would model the winter season, instead of high summer, because that would be a nice diversion.

Oh, it's tempting!

Thoughts on Shipping

The RAMMA thought experiment continues. If I were to construct a micro-layout for the show in Sedan next fall, how would I get it there safely? The Rexroth option, while interesting, sounds awfully expensive to me. Also, I would still need something on the sides to protect the layout.

Then, looking at some other foamcore-based layouts, I thought it might be best if the layout sat atop a structure, rather than trying to make the legs engage with it somehow. That's when I thought of making the box break in two pieces, and form a zig-zag pattern to support the layout.

This approach looked promising enough to investigate with a little more rigour in Sketchup. It appears that about 4'2" is the most we can manage for module length given this approach and a 4" baseboard depth. However, the layout doesn't overhang the support structure too much, and so, it should be stable enough.

That looks very intriguing

That looks very intriguing Rene'. I will follow this with great interest.

Mike Cougill

innovative!

I can see that packing box design providing lots and lots of additional value - i.e. for displaying artifacts, custom jigs & tools, photos and unused models,  *as well as* a sturdy shipping container.  Nice idea Rene!

md

Rene joins the "Road Warrior" layout-builder's club...

Dear Rene,

In loose order of appearance/thought process.

1 - Welcome to the "Road Warrior" layout builder's club! In the UK and Aust, there is a special kind of model railroader/railway modeller who thrives on building purpose-designed show layouts,
which tackle the twin challenges of:
- presenting high grade, finescale modelling under "general public" conditions
- and Road-Tough, first-time-every-time reliable, bulletproof performance, and easy-to-transport design.

"Modular" groups in the US appear to give up significant parts of the "high grade presentation" side, in deference to the "Road Ready" side of the equation. I'll be interested to see a P87 example, where finescale modelling is the focus, embrace the "doing Road Ready Right" design ethos.

http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=4824&highlight=presentation

http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=9528&highlight=presentation

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, hardcore "best of breed" Exhibition layout design/build/presentation is to Model Railroading what Pro Motorsport is the domestic car industry... (what we learn and succeed-with on the track becomes the trickle-down improvement in regular production...)

2 - RE "engine shed" trackplan

Logical focal point for a small decompressed-scene small-layout. Certainly fits what you would most want to demonstrate on a P87 layout, IE
- track detail, design, and fidelity
- specifically at least 1x active turnout
- loco design/detail/performance over said trackage
(If a loco can prove it works, a freight or passenger car will do too...)

I would suggest that is the layout were analog controlled, a simple "dumb timer" shuttle unit could keep the layout moving while you present/converse/interact with the crowd.

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GMC-SS1&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster%20SS-1

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/AutoRevCheap.html

If it's a DCC layout, reach for a Tam Valley "Train Shuttle" unit,
http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/trainshuttle.html

and use the built-in servo-throw feature to automatically shuttle the demo loco over both routes of the exemplar turnout. (simple, cheap, universally compatible, and again frees you up to do the "front-man talking with the crowd" thing...)

2a - Watch the Mains Voltage! Given that you will be building this in a 110VAC countrry, and showing it in a 240VAC mains country, make sure ALL Main-powered devices (Layout PSU, Lighting, etc) are either:

- Switchmode PSU powered with "auto Mains Voltage switching" capability
OR
- are connected to your US 110VAC PSU by a quick-disconnect connector of some sort,
so that you can source a suitable matching-output-voltage supply at the destination, and "wire it to suit" in-the-field...

FAILURE to heed this WILL likely result in Blown-Up-Electronics, "letting the smoke out", and possibly physical injury!.

(Have had similar experience the other way, with Aussie 240VAC layouts that were shipped and are now displayed in the US. Funny, the Aussie 240VAC devices just didn't want to "power-up" like they should when only fed with 110VAC...)

3 - If the aim is to Operate the layout,
(IE force someone to manually sit there and consciously "run the layout" under some perscribed sequence or rules)

rather than optimise it for display
(IE the layout "does it's thing" and "keeps the train moving largely un-attended" leaving you as a one-man-band free to converse to your hearts content about the layout, P87 in general, and whatever else comes to mind)

then I can see how "not having a complete run-around" may feel like a problem.

there are two solutions:
- recognize that with a decompressed scene being presented, it may not actually be plausible or needed to run-around anything
- if the trackplan is only missing "the far end of the pass, and the tail track", and only needs to accomodate a loco in the tail track, when why not implement a strategically viewblocked sectorplate or traverser?
(In HO, a "end of a runaround" for a SW1200 is only 6" of linear track capacity...)

4 - "RexRoth" VS "Qubelok" VS "Roadcase"

I can see why you'd instinctively go to the "RexRoth" framing system. However, from many years building both roadcases for PA/Concert/Event equipment, and Road-Rugged touring layouts, it appears wildly overkill, and no-doubt prohibitively expensive.

For touring layout work down here, 1" square aluminium tubing

http://www.capral.com.au/Qubelok-Extrusion

and matching joiners

http://www.capral.com.au/Qubelok-Accessories

are a proven and cost-effective solution for both sectional/module framing, and for external roadcase "travelling boxes/enclosures".

NOTE! Outside of the USA, the term "module" does not carry the implied link to a perscribed, strait-jacketed "modular specification" a la NTrak or Freemo. It can and is equally used to describe the individual sections of a "sectional layout", and is freely used as such without causing any obvious confusion or angst.
(/soapbox)

The closest equivalent to Qubelok I can find in the US is this http://www.brunnerent.com/Tools/Portfolio/frontend/itemlist.asp?type=2&size=0&lngDisplay=2&strMetaTag

although there may be other options.

Modifiying such "90-degree joiners" to arbitrary angles is not particularly difficult,
and 45-degree assemblies are certainly viable.

Note the Lipped tube. The lips can be used as anchor points for side plates of aluminium, MDF, or Plywood. The resulting "crates" can handle significant abuse.

5 - Roadcase style (one approach)

Many moons ago, I contemplated building a layout in a concert "Effects Sleeve Case" similar to this
(NB that the case can be elongated and heightened, I've personally used and built such cases up to 8'x3'x3').

The idea being:
- roll the case up to the position the layout will be placed in the hall,
with the _rear_ of the roadcase aligned to the _front_ of the "exhibition stand" footprint

- lift the "sleeve" clear of the layout, and place it down _behind_ the roadcase
(IE so that the sleeve is sitting on the assigned "layout location footprint" area)

- lift the layout (made of foamcore for lightness, natch! ) off the base/"dolly",
and up onto the grounded "sleeve" (which now forms the "display base")

- and either stash the dolly behind the resulting layout display, 
OR, if you're clever, and are touring a module without integrated proscenium roof/lighting structure,
flip the dolly upside-down, and mount above the layout
(with the lighting fixtures built into the "tray" formed by the dolly tray/base,
inverted it becomes a fully-enclosed "lighting roof/fascia" unit, pre-wired and ready-to-go...)

Assuming you built the roadcase from Plywood-faced Queblok or similar, the roadcase itself would only add 2-3" overall in each dimension over the total layout "module" dimensions.

Assuming the layout/module was 6x2x2, the overall case dimensions would be 6'3" x 2'3" x 2'3" (exc castor wheels)

The resulting layout/track height would be relatively low, which is certainly something to consider. However, built properly to true Concert Roadcase specs, such a case can easily stand up to the rigours of international air or ground shipment.

6 - "Diagonal Split" roadcase <> "Z-fold" support system

I have to say I love this idea! I really do think it "has legs" (sorry... ),
and using the layout-length dimension as the vertical "leg height" dimension is an inspired way to get "appropriate adult presentation height" from smaller layouts/modules.

Your diagram asks "what about protuding clasps?" and similar, and in response I'd point you again to Pro Concert roadcase hardware. These guys have been using and refining "recessed" clasps, locks, alignment and joining systems (no protruding elements = nothing for heavy-handed couriers, roadies, flight-crews, or baggage handlers to tear off), for literally decades, and have had equipment have to survive under far-more-mission-critical conditions than most model railroads will ever encounter...
(in no order of preference, although I've personally used most of these at various times)

http://www.proaudiostash.com/_folder10/

http://www.audiosource.com.au/123-Road-Case-Hardware

http://www.reliablehardware.com/mostpopularstandardroadcasehardware.aspx

http://www.penn-elcom.com/default.asp?MC=01010101
(Penn hardware, these guys have been a leading roadcase hardware manufacturer for forever,
Penn is used by many Roadcase companies as OEM hardware...)

Of course, how "hardcore" you wish to go will be significantly determined by whether you envisage:
- shipping the demo layout over to Europe,
and then selling/leaving it there for someone to use
OR
- literally making it "world tour ready",
and having a metric Boxcar-load of stories to be told once the layout "makes it there and back home again".

Given that a carpet-covered Foamcore box is more than a match for "carry-on" layout touring missions,

http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_model/members/klyzlr/Camp4.pdf
(over 12 years old and still going strong!)

I can see me possibly adapting this concept for my next single-module layout mission...

I hope the above helps!

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS In re-looking at the "clamshell" case <> Z-fold leg concept,
why not simply hinge the 2 halves along one long-edge with a continuous "piano hinge"?

Thanks!

Mike and Mark,  Thanks for the kind words! 

Prof, Holy cow!  That is going to take some serious digesting - more than can be achieved at 1:10 in the morning.  Where on earth do you find the time?  All the same thank-you very much for your expertise!  It makes me really want to build it and bring it to Aus one day.  I'll follow up tomorrow.

Rene'

Rene,

That really IS a clever design you came up with ... nothing is wasted, everything is used, nothing to store when the layout is operating.  This is certainly a keeper.  Thanks for sharing.

Nothing wasted

Thanks Dave,

It is of course a refinement of Gordon and Mary Gravett's "Pempoul," which stows away into it's supporting structure for shipping. On the shoulders of giants, indeed!  One of the nicest displays anywhere. 

Rene'

Anchoring dropleaves : YT Video comment connection

Dear Rene,

Just caught your comment via YT RE anchoring dropleaves. The key is that we need to provide a solid module-end anchor point for the flush-end PCB-mount rail joints. If we're doing this anyway, we can use the same module member as the anchor point for the drop-leaf hinges.

Diagramatic (Foamcore "inbetween the ends" central module omitted for clarity)

end-on example, minus endplate

and you've seen the operational result...

Just tying some loose ends together
(I don't often look at the comments on YT videos, or via Google+ links...)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Looking for my Black Leather

Dear Prof,

"Road Warrior" Indeed!

I don't know if I will count myself amongst that vaunted crowd, especially on my first portable layout! However, I have been exposed to enough well-presented layouts to fully agree with your points about presentation. This is why I am designing it with a proscenium arch from the get-go. I'll have to think about drapes, although I really like Mark's idea of using the inside of the boxes to hold display shelves. If I carpet the insides of the boxes, I could velcro all sorts of stuff in there.

Speaking of ideas I like, the thought of using a train shuttle, while a bit of an anathema to me as an operator, sounds like it could really help with the tedium of running the same trains for eight hours a day.  My locos will be shared with the home layout, along with some of the buildings, and so, it will be DCC.  I'll have to look into the Tam Valley one.

Speaking of DCC, thanks for the warning about mains voltage.  Yes, I am aware it's different!  I may be able to use the computer power supply that I use for my lights at home; a lot of computer supplies are switched.  I need to think about shipping the power supply as it is somewhat heavy.

I do aim to Operate the layout, and as you've figured from my YouTube comment, I'm going to attempt a traverser on one end to represent the depot and yard in town.  At the other end, there will be another dropdown to represent the branchline, and either a train turntable or a sector plate.  If I could fit a 25" turntable on, then I could conceivably run the full schedule, including the passenger train to Ottawa (once I've built it!).

I'll have to check into the availability of something like Qubelok here in Canada.  You're right: if it has to be RexRoth, I'm not going to divert that much money from the home layout, and the whole project is dead.  I've never seen the lipped tube you use, but that doesn't mean it isn't available.  Do you simply glue the foam core to the tube?

I like your effects sleeve idea.  I wonder if you could combine it with a table provided by the show to get the appropriate height.  Tables are about 30"/75 cm high.  So if you put a 2'/60 cm road case sleeve on top, you have a 54"/137 cm high layout, which is just about perfect.  You could then stow the dolly/base under the table where nobody would be inclined to use it as a skateboard.

Thanks for the links for roadcase hardware.  I didn't even know that's what the cases were called, and wouldn't have known what to Google for.  Your idea of using a piano hinge is inspired!

I hadn't thought about anchoring the ends of the rail for the drop leaf, but now that you mention it, this makes perfect sense.

Thanks again, Prof, for taking the time to share your Road Warrior wisdom.

Rene'

Dual mode controls, crewing...

Dear Rene,

As you've identified, this event, as with most general public exhibitions
(as opposed to the US-esque "trade show" events),

is equal-parts Sprint and Marathon. 8+ hours of repeatedly hitting the "Direction" button on a DCC throttle,
(and the fear/danger of not hitting it in time because you're wrapt in conversation with another P87 devotee who's diggin' your work), can seriously fray your nerves, drive you stir-crazy,
and generally take a lot of the enjoyment out of exhibiting your hard-earned finescale modelling...

​...and an unhappy exhibitor will, whether unconsciously or otherwise, give off a "I'm grumpy, don't talk to me" attitude/body-language aura, which will actively discourage otherwise-interested viewers from walking up, paying attention, looking closely at the detail and hard-work in your modelling, and asking the questions that might just inspire the next "name" P87 modeller to flourish and "have a go"...

Much as it may afront the senses, a high priority at General Public shows is simply "...Keep the Trains Running...". "Circle Work" layouts have an obvious advantage here, and P2P layouts would seem to require more manual intervention to achieve the "keep 'em running" requirement. Thankfully with "dumb timer" (analog) and TVD "train shuttle" (DCC) units, there is no reason why a properly designed P2P layout can't "keep 'em moving" just as effortlessly as a "pizza".

​Indeed, until the development of the TVD "Train Shuttle" unit,
DCC was actually more labour intensive and mentally-taxing under show conditions to keep trains running on P2P layouts than analog solutions.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/5122

I have to ask:
- how many days is the target show?
- how many hours per day?
- how many "show crew" will you have available to staff the layout?

It's a running gag:
"... show layouts have a minimum crew requirement",
"what's the minimum crew requirement?"
"Oh, One person, I guess???..."

but if you want to staff, represent, display the layout to it's best, "keep the trains running",
and have at-least 5 minutes available every-so-often to grab a coffee or go to the loo when nature calls,
there had better be at least two crew on the layout, 
and some form of "human-intervention-free" running system
(ask me how I know this...)

The above having been said, and given it sounds like you're a "Invited Headlining Guest" at this particular event, I'm pretty sure your hosts/event-organisers would be more-than-willing to provide "swing helper" crew to relieve you as required... 

...and that's completely fine. Let me break open a commonly-held misconception. Deploying either of the aforementioned "shuttle" systems does not Have To Be an "Either/Or" manual-drive "Operation Exclusion" situation!

In the case of analog "dumb timer" shuttles, a single SPST toggle-switch can drop the shuttle-relay to a predictable state. This allows the direct-drive manual throttle signal to pass straight-thru the Reverser unaffected, on command. Result is a single-toggle "auto/manual" system which can seamlessly and easy swap from "fully auto shuttle" to "fully manual direct-drive" at the drop of a hat. (Brooklyn uses exactly this system).

In the case of the TVD "Train Shuttle", it takes a bit more work,
but it too can be adapted to switch between "auto shuttle" mode and "Host DCC System Direct-drive" mode reasonably seamlessly. (I've tested and use mine with a NCE Powercab as the "Direct drive" Host DCC system)

TVD "Train Shuttle" mounted in plastic enclosure.
Switch at left is the "Auto/Manual" selector.
LH = "Host DCC manual Direct drive", RH = "TVD Auto-Shuttle Mode"

TVD "Train Shuttle" unit, Relay PCB, and internal wiring

Rear Connection field, L> R
Duplicated TVD Shuttle connections - Host DCC Track IN - 12VDC Power Input

It's not just the weight, but also the Mains Plug connection. Best move IMHO is to deploy a PSU with a stock IEC 3-pin socket

as a matching power cable with Mains Plug which suits the local configuration are generally easy to pickup locally.

Something like this?
("ChicagO Fork" at the 2010 Aus 7mm "Big Day Out" event.
The 2x 50litre plastic crates carried the drapes, signs, PSUs and throttle,
and the entire 'nook worth of O 2R equipment)

Agreed that a trestle-table + sleeve-case solution would likely give a very effective display height. (Personally I use a track-height of 1350mm for show work, and 1550 for home use. 1350 seems to be a good match for average-height standing adults thru to 6yo standing on typical 2' tall chairs). 

That said, the killer is that not all shows, at least here on the East Coast of Aust, are guaranteed to have tables readily available for exhibitor use. If you rock up to the show requiring and expecting a table, but find there isn't one available, your carefully-designed and display-height optimised display could be severely impaired... (I'm all about being "self contained" and "self reliant" when it comes to show layouts. Just show me where my layout's located in the venue, and my single mains-power drop location, and I'll be up and running toot-sweet... ).

Here's to the future "Pembroke 87.1" show layout...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

​PS consider whether you will be operating/presenting from the front, side or rear of the layout. Place and deploy the human-interface controls to suit.

Marathon and Sprint

Hi Prof,

Thanks for your comments.

The show is two long days long.  I will have between 1.5 and 2.5 staff (.5 because one of us might be 11). I totally get the point about keeping trains running.  At the last P87 meet I attended, many of the layouts weren't running all the time because so many staff were otherwise occupied! 

What is really needed is a system where the train simply reverses if it gets to the end of its track.  Then if you stop paying attention to chat with someone, all that happens is the last move repeats itself again and again.  With a small layout like Porta-Pembroke, I could easily have optical detectors on every track.  I wonder if JMRI could achieve the behaviour I want?

Exactly, yes.  Too bad about the table availability in eastern Aus shows.  Around here, I think they would definitely accommodate such a requirement.

Oh, definitely the front.  Indeed, if it's up to me, I'll let the punters drive (especially if the dead-mans auto-reverser can be figured out).

Cheers,

Rene'

Thoughts on track plan

I had a minor trampoline injury on Sunday evening, and so, I didn't feel up to building anything. I used the time to dream about possible track plans.

As you can see, I started with the prototype, of course. This came from a diagram that is a little later than the 1905 timeframe that I model. I believe in my day, the switch into Lee Manufacturing went the other way. That's the way I've built it on the home layout, and it yields a nice switch-back for added switching fun.

In my mind, I had roughed in a version that brought the turnouts for the depot area into the scene. However, as I thought about it, more turnouts implies more cost and more time (the latter is signficant). If the staging yard is anything to go by, I'm looking at a good couple of weeks to lay the four or five turnouts that would have implied.

So, I pulled in my horns, and thought about using only two turnouts - the siding and the engine house. There is no point in including the cattle pen as I don't think cattle would have been shipped in winter. (Hmm, as I think about this more, an un-plowed siding would make an interesting scenic detail).

If I add Lee Manufacturing back in, I get another turnout, but two more spots, which could be fun for operating. Incidentally, there is a third spot for engine coal inside the engine house. I wasn't sure about crowding the scene with Lee Manufacturing, and so, I mocked it up in Sketchup.

So what do you think, should I divert resources away from Pembroke:87 to build Pembroke:87.1? If so, which one?

"Dead Man's handle" : DCC and show-spec shuttle

Dear Rene,

I could wax lyrical for hours on this, and indeed I did some years ago...

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/a-solution-for-a-problem-tvd-solution-retired-ise-successor-12187989

However, the short answer is that, assuming DCC, neither the NCE MiniPanel, nor Digitrax equivalent, nor JMRI, are capable of the following, which is what you are requesting/needing.

(STOP HERE if you do not wish to be bored to tears, or have already clicked and read the above-linked post)

IE The ability to:
- command Any Loco
(The DCC protocol does not have "address agnostic" capability,
all commands except "emergency stop" are single-loco address-specific.
Change the "currently on-show" loco and the system fails,
or needs reprogramming to accomodate the new loco address.

Try setting all locos to a common address or consist address,
and you loose the ability to individually drive each loco,
which is the inherrent benefit of DCC over Analog...)

- on detection of arrival at a given point on the layout 
(do-able, with additional IRDOT/BD20 detectors, and possible additional AIU or other "feedback input" modules to the DCC/DCC+JMRI system.

However, remember that you are _already_ concerned about weight, complexity-VS-touring-reliability, and sheer "number of bits which need to be connected together to get it running", not to mention $$$ for what is a 2-day-show project... Adding a JMRI rig "just to shuttle a loco or 3" is a measurable increase in gear, and order-of-magnitude increase in complexity and potential-for-hair-loss.)

- to Stop,
(arguably do-able using Asymetrical DCC, or active Braking modules.
However, virtually all US-manufactured decoders, and certainly the sound ones,
do not support Asymetrical DCC. Not a priority for US markets, where "the Hero Engineer" is king).

- to "change direction", and "set-off in-motion again" 
(DCC protocol does not have a "toggle" or "whatever direction you are currently running, change to the other one" command. It can only issue explicit "Move Forward" or "Move Backward" direction commands.

Result? "Unexpectedly" change the loco<> track orientation, such as via the turntable or manually via 0-5-0 switcher, and a pre-coded macro a la NCE MiniPanel or JMRI will quite happily detect the train is moving backwards towards "the edge",
and command it to "move backwards at speed step 5"...
...I hope that wasn't an expensive loco...)

- automatically, reliably, and with loco direction/speed/situational awareness

Funnily enough, until the development of the TVD Train Shuttle,

Whether you are manually driving, or letting the dumb timer do the work,
a diode will stop _any_ analog track-powered loco at the appointed track position,
reliably, first time, every time,
and allow it to "change direction" and be "driven away from the edge",
completely independent of what the loco is, or the current loco<> track orientation.

I know it's saved my life at a show, when a punter asks an Incredibly Important Question just as NYCH #11 shoves a maintanence idler flat and R22 subway car "offstage" onto the only-18"-long "2nd-Ave/39th St SBK Interchange" dropleaf staging track,
over 4 feet away on the otherside of the layout from my operating position...

(Yes, the MDF "end stop" is functional, esp to catch guest operators who may try to shove too-long a consist "up towards the 39th interchange". However, with known predictable consist lengths, it's never taken a hit under show conditions...  )

(Never lost a loco "off the edge" using diodes and analog control, _Never_).

Anywho, (Prof climbs down off a well-worn soapbox),
yes a "dead man's shuttle" solution would be good. However, as it stands right now, in the DCC world, the closest thing available is the TVD Train Shuttle. Everything else is excessively complex, and _still_ doesn't work nearly as simply, reliably, compatibly, or as well under show conditions... *

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

* Your 11yo "1/2 a crewmember" may go very close to working as well as a TVD Shuttle unit,
and even has a more-situationally-aware macro/feedback system built in!
However, such "carbon-based shuttle units" have been known to show signs of minor failure over extended hours of continual operation, and tend to require periodic refuel/de-fuel "maintanence"...

PS Pleaes note that I am not connected in any way to TVD,
except as a voted-with-my-wallet fan of their work,
and pain-enough to prompt the development of the Shuttle...
(You'll also note that the release of this unit hasn't managed to silence me up, or even slow me down... ).

PPS NB that on "Brooklyn"s analog diode-stop drop-leaves, a simple toggle allows the diode to effectively handle both "loco leading" and "loco shoving" moves onto the dropleaf and "towards the edge".
(check the "41st St East" staging track, the LH spur in the pic below).

In the case of the "T.D Nerac" spur (RH spur on the "41st St East" dropleaf shown below), I can delay-uncouple shove cars "into the industry" (from "onstage"> the "offstage" drop-leaf) and back away.

When I have to come in to get them later,
a single momentary press-button (red dot between the staging tracks, next to the blue DOW tanker),
allows me to tempoarily "push past the diode stopping point" so I can couple-up to the spotted cars...

diverting resources...

Hard numbers, hard focus

Dear Rene,

OK, love the concept sketches. Let's get some givens and druthurs down to work-with.

- Layout/module Length?

I saw a ref earlier to max 4' 2" overall length?
Was that for the OD of the roadcase, or the OD of the layout module proper?
Whatever the layout ends up being, the roadcase will be that + the roadcase wall/packing thickness
(not allowing for any drop-leaf thickness added to the layout in "fold up for transport" mode).

Are we talking 2x half-depth modules in one case,
(assembles to double-length half-depth model scene),

or one full-dimension module?

- Layout Scene depth (front to back)?

I know I tend to work somewhere between 10" and 20", but that turntable is going to demand a significant chunk of scene depth, esp with the 3-tracks additional depth of the "Lee Manuf" plan. Do we have a known diameter for the turntable?

- Overall Proscenium height?

FWIW, I tend to work a solid height OD of 600mm/2', with a 6" thick base and 3-4" roof/lighting valence. The resulting 12 - 15" viewing apeture seems to work for most scales N thru O with a display track-height of 1350mm. If there are no substantial below-track earthworks that 6" base can be thinned down, with the benefit that the dropleaf length that can be accomodated within the height footprint/profile of the layout can be lengthened.

FWIW my stock drop-leaf length winds up reasonably consistent at 14"/500mm, and with some current sectorplate technology that dropleaf can act as a support for a sectorplate up-to 27"/975mm in length.

- Preferred Turnout angle?

I seem to think I saw a preference for #7s somewhere?

FWIW, I do certainly think it's worth building "Pembroke 87.1", if not for Sedan then as a high-grade promo for P87 US-outline modelling locally/domestically. "Plan A" appeals for it's simplicity, and for the angled tracks which avoid "tracks parallel to layout edge" symdrome. It also is likely to fit better within the assigned space, and still ticks the mandatory "what does this layout have to prove?" boxes.
(as noted earlier in this thread, some straight and curved track, at least 1 turnout, constant loco movement, and scope for scenery appeal).

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I don't know why, but "Plan B" makes me think of "Rachel, Georgia" by Julian Andrews
http://www.carendt.com/micro-layout-design-gallery/traversertransfer-table-lines/
/> (scroll to the bottom of the page)

PPS having just read Mark D's reply, and not realising that there is a previous appointment for the home layout, I agree that careful project planning will be key to "hitting both targets, and not missing-either". That said, can I go back and challenge one of the "base premise" statements? You've noted a few times that as far as theme you'd be willing to put time-and-effort into, it's "Proto or nothing", with "Pembroke" being the "proto" of choice. (which I get, it makes sense, I'm not challenging that ).

However, what are the guys in Sedan _actually_ wanting to see from you?
Do they want _Pembroke_specifically_,
or do they just want "a slice of A-grade US P87 modelling"?

If the former, consider that the smaller the slice of "pure Pembroke", the easier and faster it will be to build.

If the later, then consider the idea that says even a Lance M-esque "single turnout layout" is _mechanically_ enough to show "quality P87 modelling", and a nicely rendered scene can make a statement as-is...
(one continous forground track, one parallel "run-around" track with the Lee Manuf turnout coming off it,
and just enough sectorplate-on-dropleaf at each end to allow run-around and switching...)

Diverting Resources

Mark, I certainly value your $.02! 

Right now, I am leaning toward turning Porta-Pembroke into something I can mostly achieve in about a month, and evaluating where I am at the end of the month.  This would push it more toward the 2-turnout version, rather than the three or more.

Since then, I've also come up with a way to have my cake (two extra spots) and eat it too (no extra turnout), by using the sector plate or train turntable to get to Lee Manufacturing.

Rene'

JMRI-Based Dead-Man's Handle

Hi Prof,

Given the danger of going into the JMRI rabbit hole and losing myself forever, I think I will just get the Tam Valley shuttle and be done with it.  Again, it's about resources.

I'm seeing it more as an opportunity for him to practice his French, go to a big show and maybe find some interests of his own.  He will not want to stand around all day and shuttle a train back and forth, although he may be happy to help others do it, and he would certainly spell me occasionally.

Givens and Druthers

Hi Prof,

It's a rough measurement for now.  Remember it's limited by the layout height, given a single module in the case.  Certainly it won't be any longer, and likely it will be closer to 4' or 3'10".

Single module complete with backscene and lighting valance.  Staging provided by drop-leaves.

I've been working with 2'.  It will likely be closer to 20-22" by the time the box and packing is figured out.

50'3" (from memory); it scales to about 7 inches.

For some reason, I think the clamshell box works best with a square end.  So height overall = width overall.

I have the jigs already for this.  Longer would be preferable, of course.

Another vote for simplicity.

A vote for even greater simplicity!  I think I really need a run-around to keep myself from being bored to tears!  I think in Sedan they are only looking for some North American P87 modelling.  So, I could just show up with models and a demo stand like I did in Utrecht.  However, I'm thinking beyond Sedan, and taking the thing on a wider road as well.  The thing about the turntable and the roundhouse is that apart from the pit, I can reuse both from Pembroke proper.

Thanks for the input!

Rene'

"If I were to construct a

    The P-48 group at O scale west furnished a portable layout for anyone to bring equipment to run on. I think that makes more sense for the home team to provide the track and the visitors to just bring some rolling stock. Boxing up a board with a couple of spurs and sending it to France seems like a lot of trouble for the results?  .....DaveB

a lot of trouble for the results

Fair comment, Dave.

I actually did run some equiment on the Fremo:87 layout three years ago in Utrecht.  It was pretty fun, but did look funny passing through bucolic Germany!

There aren't many places you can go and run your Proto:87 equipment, it has to be admitted.

Rene'

Reality Bites Pt1

Dear Rene,

If I may be so bold, below is a reality check, using XTrkCAD.
- Turntable = 50' (7")
- Turnouts = #7
- Min Radii = 36"

Total module size = 48" x 20" (24" minus 4" of rear spine)

Dropleaf length = 20" (18" + 2x 1" qubelok framing)

XTrkCAD doesn't have steam locos or passenger cars that I can find,
but with 40' cars and a GP40-2, we have 3 car-lengths worth of run-around,
and 3-car-lengths of lead either end of the run-around.
(NB that the Eastern lead is actually a single-track sectorplate,
hence the reason why the dropleaf track appears to not-align with either onstage track.

Also NB that the rearmost track has a slight bend just before the joint, to match the sectorplate swing geometry).

Now, I would personally question the need for a run-around,
(did I hear someone say "proto-nook"? ),

but given your previously-stated need preference for one, this is at least a starting point for furthur R&D...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Réalité Bites Pt 1

Hi Prof,

Thanks for mocking this up.  This is far different from what I found with SketchUp!  Given you used a track planning tool, rather than a general purpose CAD program, I am inclined to trust your findings over my own. I shall have to get out some paper and templates and see what is what.  Perhaps I will have to abandon the turntable.  

Rene

PECO LocoLift = turntable by another name

Dear Rene,

How to have the _operational_effect_ of a turntable without the onstage space-eater?
Try running "the turntable lead" offstage westward onto the dropleaf,
and use a PECO Loco-Lift (or similar cassette system, P87 is not 16.5mm gauge IIRC???) 

to "turn the loco" offstage...
(a few locolifts with various locos ready-to go, and you can even have a loco
go offstage "to the roundhouse, get bedded-down for the night",

and have a 2nd loco come back onstage, "having been serviced and ready-to-run-the-local"....

...this subterfuge would, by clever coincidence, also avoid direct/excessive 0-5-0 handling of your locos over the course of the 2-day show... ).

(suggest checking Carl A's "Pikes Peek" how-to... ).

...or just focus on spotting cars at Lee Manuf, a la Lance M "one turnout layout" or "proto-nook"...
(again, suggest re-reading Carl A's "Secrets of Designing a Micro",
particularly the "Point 2" section RE the hardnosed task of selecting the most-appropriate "focal point" out of a fave scene, to focus a micro-build on...)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr