Suggestion

To me the lettering style looks too modern for a coal hopper with a 1918 build date.

Also the typical style would have the stripe under the reporting marks and number or a stripe on top and below the reporting marks and number but typically just not on top.

Spacing

I agree with Tom's comments.  I couldn't find the era in which the SNE is set on your blog, but saw a mention of you running an RS3.  If your era is that late, lettering style may be okay if perhaps the reporting marks were touched up (and they DO look newer in color than the other stencils), but not as-built.

Regarding the spacing of the lettering itself, I think it looks good, but I'd suggest mixing it up a bit on some future hoppers that might represent different car orders.  Perhaps some orders had "SNE" all on one panel?  I think that kind of variety, if done sparingly, adds realism.

Letter Spacing

The image was of the actual hopper. The SNE lettering was applied with Photoshop. The idea was to check position, lines and spacing. Obviously, the overall finish would be weathered to an even level.

I have added a lower stripe, put it into Times Roman and toned the lettering down. How about that?

Times Roman

Is a  font created by Computers, so would be inappropriate for the car.

Close James

The Times Roman font was developed in 1931 for the British newspaper The Times. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_New_Roman

So, with a build date of 1918 it wouldn't be on the car I would think. Seems that the "Times Roman" vs "Times New Roman" is a licensing deal.

Andrew

"I have added a lower stripe,

"I have added a lower stripe, put it into Times Roman and toned the lettering down. How about that?"

  That looks pretty good. I'd try to match the lettering font to the other data a bit better on that car.  If you google search coal hoppers you''ll find lots of photos of similar cars so you can decide which style you like best. some had underlines of different lengths and some didn't, some have heralds or the whole railroad name spelled out, etc. I'd vary the hoppers to look like they were painted in different years and different car orders. You can make up a history for your railroad and paint cars to fit the story. There's a lot of ways to go on this so check out photos and have fun with it......DaveB

Oh come on

I was only doing a mock up. I just used the easiest font I could find. I didn't actually investigate the creation date of the font, nor did I look at the manufacturing date for the hopper. This my railroad..... etc.

"  That looks pretty good. I'd try to match the lettering font to the other data a bit better on that car.  If you google search coal hoppers you''ll find lots of photos of similar cars so you can decide which style you like best. some had underlines of different lengths and some didn't, some have heralds or the whole railroad name spelled out, etc" Now that is good advice.

Maybe

S & NE bought the car in 1942 and resprayed it! Maybe the management thought that Times was a neat font? I don't know.

Apologies

Apologies David. My mistake.

Andrew

Era issues

David,

Accurail makes a nice product and having the data only cars enables easy personal customization. There is an era issue here with the data lettering on the car in your original image. This data style was typical of the 1919-1927 period. The ARA introduced new lettering recommended practices that took effect January 1, 1927. this streamlined the lettering and made the CAPY data easier to understand for all shop personnel. Accurail produces this lettering version on their #2597 kit. Note the differences.

Hoppers went through a rebuild about every ten years and were repainted after side sheets were replaced. The earlier data lettering style may have lasted into the early 1930s for some hoppers (depending on original build date), but by the 1940s most hoppers would be sporting this later style. I suspect you focus on a post-WW2 era to this is more along your starting point.

The ARA lettering practices specified nine inch tall lettering for reporting marks, with seven inch a minimum. Car numbers were to be a minimum of seven inches tall. End data was specified as four inch tall letters and numbers. The ARA also specified placement of the reporting marks with a distance of 52 inches from the bottom of the side sill to the bottom of the letters. A distance of 38 inches was set as the sill to bottom of the numbers distance. 

These were only recommended practices and some railroads followed their own "standards" but you will hit closer to a prototype look if you letter your hoppers using similar placement. I'm not trying to be picky here, just informing of prototype practices.

Eric

Par for the course around here....

You just have to take it with a grain of salt is all. I honestly believe some guys in this hobby would measure the length of blades of grass next to the ROW if the could.   I think some of the suggestions  you have gotten about the striping are good advice, I would not worry too much about the font choice right now.  Get the general look  of the car right  and you can worry over what font was invented when later....if you so choose. I mean think of all the "fun" you could have researching what font was invented when!  I think I'd make the lettering a tad bit bigger if it was me but that's just my preference.

Michael

A resource photo

here is a link to the Appalachian Railroad Modeling site of two Interstate hoppers, one in the black older scheme from 1950s and one repainted for Southern style

http://appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/photos/interstate-prototype-photos/inthoppers/

You can also search this site for other prototype photos and other coal railroading ideas.

Bill Michael

Move all the lettering to to

Move all the lettering to to the left panel, SNE vs S  NE.

Roman lettering would match the dimensional data.

Sans Serif lettering is OK, the B&O, C&O, W&LE, VGN (and several others used it on 1890's era cars), but mixing them is not as typical.

According to the MCBA standards from 1916-1926, the initials should be 9" letters with the road number in 7" numbers, 8 inches apart, with a white line immediately above and below (within 2 inches ).  The AAR standards (1926-1969) were similar (the lower stripe was only as long as the numbers.)

Thank you

The last few posts were what I was looking for. I cannot just go into a LHS to buy appropriate lettering and postage from the US is expensive let alone the tax and processing charge so I have to use what I can get and that is really just Letraset as the only readily available decals - all be it that I don't much like rub down. The only other options are Royal Air Force letters but they are normally a restricted alphabet. I can easily get Helvetica and Times so that's how it will be. Also, I am pretty much restricted to 5mm and 3mm as the next sizes up are too big.

You have to be an easy going freelancer if you wish to model US railroads in the UK!

Just out of interest, if I buy 1 or 2 boxcars from the US I am quoted $40 shipping. Then I pay 20% UK sales tax and a $13 processing charge! I spent $350 recently and those charges are fine on that quantity but not on any small order.

Weight data

The 10-18 date is the weight of the car new. It should be reweighed approximately every 5 years so if you layout is in the late '50s the a date of say 1956 would be appropriate.

Ken Rutherford

Why not make your own decals?

The subject has been discussed here and you can get white decal paper and print in reverse with black, leaving the white to show thru.

"Oh come on"?

David,

Your "Oh come on" response gave me the feeling that you were frustrated over earlier replies.  Am I reading that right?

You asked:

To me, that seemed to indicate that you were interested in doing this correctly.  But then when you received feedback intended to help you do so, you replied:

 "I cannot just go into a LHS

"I cannot just go into a LHS to buy appropriate lettering and postage from the US is expensive let alone the tax and processing charge so I have to use what I can get and that is really just Letraset as the only readily available decals - all be it that I don't much like rub down. The only other options are Royal Air Force letters but they are normally a restricted alphabet. I can easily get Helvetica and Times so that's how it will be. Also, I am pretty much restricted to 5mm and 3mm as the next sizes up are too big."

I often just use what I have and make it work by weathering it or patching a new paint rectangle on the car side so it looks like new lettering added to an older car. (and for those who model the newer era graffiti can hide lots of decal errors )  Maybe you can cut out numbers from a British lettering set? You might want to check ebay and see if any sellers there have used decal lots then you can have a supply of various lettering to patch cars up...DaveB

Valid response

I was commenting on the post that mentioned that the car was built in 1918 and the font only created in 1931. As I mentioned later, this was a huge assumption that the car was to be untouched, not repainted or sold on during the time from 1918 to the early 1950's. It seemed such a picky response to me when I was looking for help on a mock up. Remember that I had put this together in photoshop just to illustrate what I was thinking.

I hope that you and all the others bother in future, as I will because the end result always seems to come through.

David

Black outlines on white decal paper.

Yes I did this about 18 months ago on some N scale hoppers. I had quite forgotten that. I will have to search and see if I can find the paper. Then I can really try and match what is the real result rather than making do.

Thanks for the idea.

The question of font

came up because you mentioned which font was being used.  If you didn't care, why mention which font it was?  Thus, I assumed you were interested in using the "correct" font.  And with over 100 to choose from in Photoshop.....

As for car numbers, another option is to order some from Accurail itself.  They sell renumber decals for the various roads they sell.  Many of them are white numbers on black.  Still leaves you the road name to do and/or stripes, but then the numbers would be the correct type height and font.  The decals also include the end numbers in the appropriate size too.

Not a "shot" at all....

I simply pointed out that it was the usual to get such responses around here and then made a tongue in cheek remark accompanied by a to indicate that it was a joke.   Nothing more.... I'm sorry that some people don't seem to get my sense of humor and sarcastic wit.

Someone commented that the first font looked too modern so David tried another probably without even giving any thought to when it might have been "invented" This is after all, a mockup.

Michael

My apologies

My apologies then Michael.  Perhaps I just read too much into it, but it seems sometimes as though your messages belittle those of us who enjoy prototype modeling and/or rivet counting (of our own rivets).  I think you've mentioned feeling as though darts are being thrown from our crowd, but personally, I've always tried to be very careful to be respectful of others' choices regardless of the camp to which they belong.

Chalk it up to a late night on my part and the fuzzy-headedness (and perhaps oversensitivity) that goes with it.  I got called out of bed last night, and it's always hard for me to think clearly the next day.

Prototype

I would suggest looking for pix of Lehigh & New England hoppers.  Their initials were LNE and they used sans serif lettering.  Most of the photos I found were all offset hoppers.  (also found the CNJ/CRP, CP and MP used sans serif lettering.)