Greg Williams GregW66

Just because you’ve switched to DCC doesn’t mean you should toss or sell your old DC power pack. Well, if you are like me you have 5 or more in the tickle trunk so I guess you could sell some of them. I need to know the free running and stall current of an old Athearn GP9 to ensure the decoder I have is suitable. Out comes my meter, power pack and a few clip leads to hook things up.

This is an inexpensive meter that I bought at Canadian Tire for less than $10. You probably don’t have a Canadian Tire in the States but any meter will do. Litchfield Station has one for sale for $7.95 ( http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=999003515&cat=&page=1) but you could probably pick one up at any hardware store. One that autoranges is nice but I have to set mine. In this picture I have it set to read Volts, Ohms (resistance) or mA and for a max of 20V DC.

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Here is the meter hooked up to my old Hammond & Morgan power pack. I have a red and white clip lead on the DC power out at the back of the power pack connected to the test probes of the meter. The meter is reading 18.92V but that is without a load, once connected to a locomotive, the voltage will drop.

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Here is what the meter reads at full power when running a locomotive freewheeling. The meter is reading 13.47Volts. This is also the output of a 12Volt car battery. It’s spot on for our testing.

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Here is the meter set to read a maximum of 10Amps. Note I had to change the input leads and set the dial for 10A.

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Here is the meter’s reading of the current draw while the locomotive is free wheeling at full voltage. The meter reads 0.63Amps

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What we really need to know is the stall current of the motor. While running at full speed, I squeezed the flywheel of the locomotive briefly and captured the current reading of the meter. The value will fluctuate but you are interested in the highest current reading. You don’t want to fry your decoder by putting too much of a load on it. The highest reading I could get was 1.26Amps. That’s a lot of current. However, the Digitrax DH163D decoder I plan to install in this locomotive is rated at 1.5Amps continuous and 2.0Amps peak. Since I couldn’t get a reading over 1.26Amps or so, I know I am safe to use this decoder.

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The other consideration is the current draw of any lighting. As it stands I have no lighting in this unit but plan to install LEDs when I install the DCC Decoder. I chose LEDs because they draw much less current that incandescent bulbs and knew I would be pushing the limits of this decoder with the old Athearn motor.

Athearn motors are known for their high current draw. However, it is more than acceptable to install a 1.5Amp (2.0Amp peak) decoder. What you want to keep in mind is how many locomotives you are running and what their current draw is. With my NCE PowerCab I would be limited to about 2 Athearn locomotives max, with more modern can type motors I could stretch this to 3 or 4.

While the Athearn GP9 shows its age and also knowing it is not a scale width hood, I am willing to install DCC in it because I am attached to this particular model. It was my first custom paint and decal job. I do plan to remotor this unit at a later date. I am sure there are many who have fleets of Athearn locomotives on their roster and are contemplating a switch to DCC. It is possible, you just need a little information on what your locomotives are drawing for current.

GregW66

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
Larry of Z'ville

Your motor

Is one of the better BB versions.  While these have higher current draw than a more recent vintage motor, they are better than the round grey motors.  Yours seems to be average for this type motor.  The stall current is an important measurement.  However, I would ask about the condition of the motor, i.e. condition of the brushes, the communicator, metal clips that hold the motor together and the condition of the rotor surface.  Dirt and rust on any of these surfaces will drive this value up. 

Having said that, I think the 1.5/2.0 amp decoder is enough for this loco.  The stall current is a good but conservative  indicator.  For that to actually occur, you need to force stop the rotor.  While possible, a more likely happening is to run the loco at maximum load.  This will happen due a combination of factors, number and weight of cars, sharpness of curves and up hill grade.  The resulting current draw is the value to consider.  You can measure this value by coupling to a car.  Hold the car stationary.  Run the loco on max power.  The motor will force the wheels to spin.  This measured value is the maximum operating current that you can expect to see with the loco in its present condition.  

This is the value that will be the deciding factor for your power districts.  Even at that, you have to decide what the worst case for each district.  Lots of grade and curves will require more power/ current than straight and level track.   Etc.

others will have more experience,

Larry

 

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com

Reply 0
lexon

Meters

I have had three like the ones that Litchfield sells for some years. Mine cost me about $2.99 when Harbor Freight had them on sale. They do not read AC amps but I have never had to do that kind of measurement.

They read about 13.6 VAC on my NCE Power Cab and the clubs NCE Power Pro.

They work very well as DIY DCC amp meter using the 20 MA DC scale with a couple three terminal devices and a few passive components.

I keep some double clip leads on hand plus a set of meter leads with alligator clips on one end.


http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm

http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm

Rich

Reply 0
Nelsonb111563

Never understood why we measure the "stall current"..........

As far as operation of any locomotive on a track, one will never "stall" a loco even on a grade.  It will slip it's wheels first.  I measure the slip current of a locomotive rather than the stall current.  Am I the only one who thinks this way?  Or are there others who also think as I do?

Nelson Beaudry,  Principle/CEO

Kennebec, Penobscot and Northern RR Co.

Reply 0
Pelsea

I stalled an engine

And blew the decoder when a piece of grit got into the mechanism. $95 worth of blue smoke. I think I'll remotor that one.

pqe

Reply 0
lexon

Motor current

I have used light pressure on the drivers rather than seizing up the motor.

Rich

Reply 0
LKandO

Slippin' and a sliden'

Quote:

I measure the slip current of a locomotive rather than the stall current.  Am I the only one who thinks this way?  Or are there others who also think as I do?

This is the process used by Rail Pro to set maximum current draw for the locomotive. If the current significantly exceeds this value then the decoder shuts down the drive current and reports an error code to the controller. Thus preventing the very situation pqe experienced.

The Rail Pro controller displays on the screen the locomotive's current draw at wheel slip which came in mighty handy when I was calibrating my block circuit breaker design. FWIW... an Atlas HO H16-44 draws 350mA at slip.

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
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