Looks good to me.

I think it looks fine, having the main higher like that helps. I'm not one to ask about how it looks though, I only care about how it operates.  

Randy

Prototype for everything

Main under chute? Photo from appalachianrailroadmodeling.com

 "am trying to decide if this

"am trying to decide if this will look appropriate with the mainline track going under the tipple chute. The tipple chute will go into a backdrop."

I recall seeing photos of main line track going thru tipples in a similar manner so I wouldn't worry about it. Is there some reason it can't be moved to the front of the tipple closer to the aisle than the tipple loading tracks? .DaveB

Lehigh Valley

The Lehigh Valley's mainline went under this type of thing east of LeRoy, NY. It was a gravel pit.

Charles

Reply to Dave

The way the mainline curves around it would be too close to the exit of the curve and there is more track that is going in front of the tipple loading tracks to feed a gravel company that is back in the center of the curve.

The below plan has been modified a bit from this picture but you get the idea. The circled #1 is the coal tipple which I have moved down a bit from what it shows in the plan.

I will try to post a better picture with the modified plan.

Here is the overall plan:

Thanks,

James

Track plan

Here is an updated track plan. Of course moving from paper to 3D gives me a better idea of how things will fit and look on the bench work. Most of the middle table is done. The left table  will be phase two later on. I am currently working on the L to the right.

Where the bench work on the right leaves the grid it is actually angled at about 45 degrees instead of straight as it is on the drawing.

Thanks for the prototypical pictures.

I actually googled coal tipples and found some but did not see the one you posted. I must have missed it. I visit that page from time to time.

You would think that there would be more on the web when it comes to coal and rail operations. Maybe I am missing something.

I got a few from some books that I bought but none that I recall having the mainline run under the main coal chute.

I did see a painting of I believe the Banning #2 mine that had a similar setup but the chute was down hill from the mine/tipple.

Is there another resource I could use for prototype coal to rail operations?

Thanks again.

James

"The tipple chute will go into a backdrop."

What will that part of the backdrop be? From the posted picture, I think that a building flat would be more believable than otherwhat.

jolS

"The way the mainline curves

"The way the mainline curves around it would be too close to the exit of the curve and there is more track that is going in front of the tipple loading tracks to feed a gravel company that is back in the center of the curve.'

    Thanks for the track plan, now I see how it works. In the first photo I thought that was a workbench under the tipple tracks, didn't notice it was another level of benchwork .  If you can paint or get a photo of Appalachian hillside like in that tipple photo your track behind the tipple should blend right in. I'd go with the colors in that photo for the yard ballast, buildings and trees, it all looks like a signature view to me( and notice the cool sag in the wires) ....DaveB

Not only the mainline...

On at trip I made out to Virginia I took the route across the mountains.  I was heading for Virginia Beach.  Besides it being fall, wet roads and leaves on the hairpin curves I noticed in some areas I was following a mainline. Both the tracks and the road went under the chutes in many locations.  I remember those long coal drags heading for the Tidewater.

That was one dangerous trip across the mountains.  The traffic had chewed the fallen leaves into a slick soup on the roads. Every hairpin turn you felt the backend trying to slide out. I was following semi-tractor trailers down the East side so speed wasn't an issue.  Traffic was crawling. All the way down was the smell of burning brakes.  Occasionally you would see one pull off at the many crossroads and as you went past you could see the orange glow through the wheels.

Den

coal hauler resource

Thanks Den

Thanks for sharing your personal knowledge of seeing the mainline go under the chutes. That helps my decision.

When you took the trip was it during a time when coal trains ran?

Thanks Prof Klyzir

I actually went there today and there is some great info on his site. I had visited his site before but there was still some doubt because I had a hard time finding prototypical photos of trains running on the main under the tipple chute. I even researched coal tipples serviced by the P&LE and Chessie RRs. One that comes to mind is the Marsolino tipple in West Connellsville yard. 

Maybe I have to contact local libraries from that area to get access to more photos. I don't know.

Thanks.

James

ARM is superb

Main under Tipple : "P4E" VS "Common as mud"

Dear James,

Apart from photos of period tipples being relatively rare to begin with,
I suspect the reason you are struggling to find "mainline runs under tipple" pics is because,
as with many things in model RRing, 

"a prototype for everything" may not always co-incide with what is common.

Now, I need to state upfront that I'm not a appalachian coal-hauling-expert by any means,
but a quick trowell thru the library and the usual online suspects suggests that the railroads took some deliberate and conscious effort to keep the major mainlines seperate (and out from underneath) loading-areas/tipples. Coal branch "mainlines" and dedicated balloon-loop "mains" tend to be special cases, as the traffic is likely to be coal, all coal, and only coal trains. (IE not "general allcomer traffic").

However, for "double-track high-iron general-purpose" mainlines,
it would take an significantly extenuating circumstance
(EG literally a tipple built on the side of a valley,
with nowt but a 2-track-wide ledge between the cliff-face and a river),

to run "highball main" under such a close-confines obstruction...
(The taller the tipple is to clear "mainline trains",
the greater the "free-fall distance" for the coal which is being loaded into the hoppers.

More Free-fall distance = more spillage.loss from tipple> car, more airbourne dust, and general in-efficiency

Equally, any clearance obstruction represents a maintanence and potential derailment risk. If the aim is to "keep the trains moving", then eliminating potential risks is a logical thing to undertake). 

I don't want to rain on the parade, and by all means I get that the model layout's physical limitations kinda emulate the above-posited "between a river and a cliff-face" prototype situation

but with the popularity of Appalachian Coal Hauling modelling and sites like Dan B's,
if the pics don't exist, and the documented prototype trackplans don't suggest it,
then there's probably a good case to suggest it wasn't a "common occurance".

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS having spent some time researching various proto RR subjects for potential translation into modelling missions, I've found that:
- on any given railroad or subject, there's usually between 2 and 5 "key resource" books/sites
- once you've exhausted those respected sources, the effort to find anything furthur
(or try to prove something contrary to those respected sources)

usually becomes exponentially harder, if not impossible...
(and indeed, you may be searching for "something other than normal" which simply never existed).

- whether the effort to uncover the "crucial missing piece of information" is worth it,
(esp if you are the kind of modeller who refuses to continue with a project until the outstanding question is definitively answered), is only a question you yourself can answer

(HINT: there are plenty of ultra-high-fidelity models without layouts, and proposed layouts without models worldwide, because the modeller in question is stalled, pending a minute piece of info which may never have been documented, and/or they may never find...)

Given this, you face a choice:
- Accept the resources and evidence as "that's how it must have been",
and go forward confident that whatever is on the layout is supported by historical evidence
OR
- Commit to your decision to deviate from the historical record 
(it is your layout after all, and no-one can take that from you! )
and adapt the "deviation" so it "looks plausible" within the context as best as you can

Logging modellers face this on a daily basis, as do shortline modellers...

Thanks for the insight.

I am motivated to complete this phase of the layout and will proceed with what I have to work with. I also have to think about the "fun to operate aspect of the hobby and in this case fun over the prototype operation wins.

At this time most of the people that see my layout are not savvy about what the prototype did but will appreciate seeing the trains run and also the main behind the tipple will give them some sense of depth even though it may be brief.

All this discussion has helped me think of new ideas and different ways to make this work both prototypically and still maintain the fun aspect.

I could move the chute to another area. Maybe out of the ground below as seen in the prototype operations at some mines. It would take more work on my part but may be worth it. We will see.

Thanks to all for your insight and assistance with this decision.

James