Do you like green or blue?

Big color difference between 5000K and 6500K.

http://www.lkorailroad.com/lighting-proof-of-concept/

3rd picture down is 5000K
4th picture down is 6500K
5th picture down is 5000K and 6500K together

CFL Color

  I used to have tube florescent lamps for layout lighting.  No special color(other than they were 'cool white').  I now have CFL's and I have tried several types:

• 2500K - Too red/yellow
• 3500K - Better, but you really need lots of them if you are going to do photography.
• 5000K - These are really strong, but I like them - Sort of a Super Cool White
• 6500K - Super Strong, a  real blue/green(sort of reminds me of old Ektachrome Slides).

  I have not tried LED, most of the lamps do not seem to have enough 'lumens' and if they do - The price is crazy.

Jim

"I am going to test with a

"I am going to test with a few bulbs,"

    That sounds like the best plan. I think the best K number depends on personal preference and what feeling you are trying to give the layout. Some folks like colder and some like warmer, and the scenery,and backdrop artwork can effect the choice...DaveB

Though they look the same...

...in terms of how "bluish white" they look when you look right at them, from what Alan's page shows, the results are very different.  Looks like I will have to go with special ordering the 6000K bulbs as they are closer to the 6500K tubes that I already have installed. 

I am concerned since there is only partial overlap of the light from the aisle lights, that with the significant color difference, will then have the same "color" in a scene show differently depending on what light is hitting it.  Hopefully the difference between 6000K and 6500K is not that significant.

Thanks for the info!

Ken L

5000K VS 6000K Lights - Don't Forget CRI

Testing several lights sounds like a good idea.  But don't forget CRI (color rendering index).  The closer to 100 the better of showing what is lighted in true colors.

Personally I prefer Philips 5000 K florescent which have a CRI of 90 or Ecosmart CFLs at 5000 K with a CRI of 82.

My eyes think they both put out the same lighting value.  (Both are available at Home Depot, by the way.)

Chuck

Chroma 50s is what I'm using

According to the information sheets...

the CRI for either the 5000K and the 6000K buibs is 80. 

I want to stay away from CFL's.  Too many issues with them.  I'm using LED Bulbs.  The Florescent tubes for the Aisle lights only have a CRI of 78. 

Ken L.

Seeing is believing

Watch your cost as you start getting picky about CRI. Photography is where low CRI will trip you up. For in person viewing, if it looks good to your eye then it's good.

FWIW My layout is 5000K CFL paired with 6500K LED. The aisles are lit with 4700K cool white. The layout lighting way overpowers the aisle lights so there is little to no discernable difference on the layout from the aisle lights.

A bit off topic, but related...

...is this new issue I see with the light bulbs.  The Aisle Light (6500K) seems to be adding a shadow line that the Layout Deck LIghts (5000K)  can not compensate for resulting in what you see below.  I highlighted the shadowline in red in the second pic.

 

 

I have attempted to reposition the lights from in the middle above the deck, to the front of the deck, to the back of the deck.  This is the "best" result, being at the back of the deck.  I am using 40W Equiv. LED's ,CRI of 80.  They are spaced 2' apart. 

I fear I will need to have the aisle lights off, which will become a problem because there won't be sufficient light in the aisles to be safe, but the scenes will be ruined by this permanent shadowline.    HELP!

Ken L.

Interesting timing, I just

Interesting timing, I just swapped out all of my 6500? T-8's to a warmer hue, because I came into a supply of them. Sorry don't know the value. But it is a softer warmer glow, vs. the ice cold of the other. Summer vs winter? They are all double fixture and are somewhat placed end to end behind a curtain valance.  I don't really care for photographing my layout. I guess it comes down to what looks good to you. Even my non modeling family members say it looks better with the warmer glow.  

Steve

Aussie Scenery : 3500K

Dear Lighting fans,

Remember that deliberately skewing the lighting color-balance can in some cases be used to enhance the scene you're modelling.

EG Aussie scenery is overall an Olive/brownish in hue. This means that lighting it with high K (6000-9600K) "cold white"/"blue" sources is actually counter-productive to the desired visual.
(Might work OK for verdant green scenes such as Pac NW or part of Europe... ).

To get the "Sunburnt country" image in an enclosed proscenium module,
deliberately reaching for 3000-3500K Incan or Halogen lighting is a potent and effective technique.

FWIW, over a 2' scene (Sept 2013 "$500 layout" article),
check the following

​LH Fluro Only

LH LED only*

RH halogen only

Fluro VS Halo

LED VS Halo*

LED VS Fluro*

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

* "LED" was cheapo ARLEC under-bench LED kit. LED strip lighting now commonly available is generally brighter, but the cheaper eBay options can be hit-n-miss in terms of consistent brightness and color rendering. LEDs are also fairly narrow-visible-frequency devices, so IF they come with a "color-temp K" rating, it will be very stark at that frequency. (If "white" is a broad spectrum of many visual frequencies, it's very hard to find a truly "white" LED).

Use LED Light Bubls, not strips..

Prof,

Just so there is no confusion, I am not using the LED Light Strips.  I am using E27 Base LED Bubls that Home Depot and Lowes sell.  The light spectrum appears consistent (they better be for $10 a piece!) My problem at the moment is the shadow that is created by the extra aisle light.

Ken L.

Barndoors

Dear Ken,

If you have light "spilling" onto areas that you don't want it to,
a simple "barndoor" or valence will act as a shield, and stop the light shining where it's not wanted...
(note how little "light spill" there is in the above pics, from the scene out into the surrounding room...)

An extreme example, but note the hard-edge of the light right at the front fin-tip of the rocket,
and no spilled light between the light source itself and the rocket "focal item".

We put valances on front edge of the layout to stop layout light spilling into the aisle,
why not use the same technique in reverse, on the aisle/room lighting?

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Ken there is an inherent issue with globes...

It's called Hot Spotting, and you need to considerate it before making an investment.  I've been looking into replacing my fluorescent tubes with LED lights over the last couple of weeks, I was that impressed by the results after changing my entire home from halogen to LED after we had solar power installed, I thought I would try the layout lighting with them.

The big issue comes when you go from the bulb being 2 - 2.5m (6 - 7') from the floor to 0.5 - 1m (1 - 2') from the surface of the layout.  When spread at about 1m (3.5') they put out a really nice even light, I have 9W 3000K 60 degree globes, I can run five of these off one 60W electronic transformer.  The cost savings are significant our current tubes which are 6000K - Cool White are 38W each tube, in some places that I have deep bench work I have double tube battens.  So for every tube I can run the equivalent of four LED globes all from one transformer.

The issue is how to get an even spread of light, without hot spotting and without investing more time and money achieving it, than what it takes to put up a batten fixture and a single fluorescent tube.  Perhaps some form of diffuser like Alan has used on his LK&O, but again the work involved and the extra cost could out way the cost.

I have tried today to see if I could make the globes work any better than current fluorescent tube configuration, and at this stage the hot spotting was far to great to even consider a straight down approach.  Perhaps an angled approach with both globes spread about a metre apart and facing on another may work, will have to try it and see if it works?

Anyhow some food for thought for you... 

Diffusers : Raid the Kitchen...

Dear Jason,

Tech tip, grab a sheet of grease-proof NON-Waxy baking paper, and glue it over the business end of the bulb
(if the bulb is mounted in a typical front-loader Halogen gimble mount, use ACC to glue the paper to the gimble bulb-holder frame).

Instant diffusser, and cheap-as...

http://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-58-february-2007/

http://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-60-april-2007/

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I've used this for 20W halogens for some years now without issue, the "halogen" pics above are Phillips BrilliantLine 20W treated as described. Before anyone notes the apparent contradiction of placing paper in close proximity to halogen bulb heat sources, remember that we are talking baking paper, which is designed to handle 500+ degrees C in an Oven. The heat from a 20W halogen is comparatively negligible...

Thanks Prof...

I'll have to give the baking paper a go tomorrow.

"I am wondering if having 40W

"I am wondering if having 40W equivalents for most of the Deck Lights (with 25W Equivalents for shallower/shorter decks) for three decks would be sufficient lighting for the room?  Lights spaced every 2' apart.  This would eliminate the shadowline.  My concern is not enough light to read paperwork (using TT&TO)"

     I think three decks lighted to showcase the trains would put out enough light to move around the room safely. If the aisles are too dark in some spots you can always add a foot light or map light for reading paperwork. I wouldn't spend too much time trying to solve it till it actually shows up as a problem. Seems like whatever lighting I have at the time always works for the layout and the room even if it's just  simple shop lights or ceiling fixtures. Once a layout is done and ready to run most folks focus on the trains and don't even think about the lighting...DaveB

Very subjective

Light color is very subjective. Go with what you like the looks of using actual experiments. Trying to decide using only recommendations or web browser photos from others is just asking for it. There's a high risk you won't be happy with the results.

Personally, I prefer warmer lighting, circa 3500K. Charlie Comstock's Bear Creek uses 5000K lighting and it always feels as if I'm in a sterile institutional building like a hospital when I'm at Charlie's. Nothing at all against Charlie's wonderful layout, but my color sensors just lean away from colder lighting.

On my Siskiyou Line, the warmer lighting feels just like a warm July summer day to me - it just has the right summer look.

So do plenty of tests to make sure you like the look before you order a $1000 worth of lights and then have to live with it for the next umpteen years.

Let there be light

Appears Joe and I agree on this. The only reason I even know the K of my lights was to keep track of them as I experimented. I didn't much care what the science behind it is, I just wanted a certain look on the layout. Experimenting got me there.

FWIW I opened the curtain of a basement window to allow the sun to beam through. I then compared that area of the layout to the artificially lit test area shown in my blog pictures. Nothing empirical, just looked at it. Kept changing bulb and strip combinations until I got the two areas to match best as possible using what I had available.

Once I had the sockets, strips, and reflectors in place I then used a light meter app on my phone to equalize the light around the layout by swapping 9, 15, and 23 watt CFLs in the sockets.

All the messing around was worthwhile. I am totally satisfied with my layout lighting.

Here's a little CRI eye opener test to do. Find two, but different, items around your house that are the same color outside in the sunshine. Now compare them again under your layout lighting. Do they still color match? Ah, CRI raising its ugly head. 

One caution....

and it seems obvious but it's worth pointing out because it doesn't seem to get mentioned that often. Whatever lighting you go with on your layout, make sure your workbench lighting matches it exactly! If you don't, that beautiful new structure or piece of rolling stock that you have painstakingly painted to look just like it did in 19 whatever is going to all of a sudden change color on you when it goes from the bench to the layout. Learned this one long ago.....

Other than that bit of advice, I tend to agree with Joe.  Lighting is subjective. Go with what looks right to your eye. Just looked at one of my spare  "daylight" CFL's and it's 5K. I like them for the layout  but I had to loan my wife one for the house not too long ago when we had a temporary shortage of household bulbs and she disliked it in the normal living area. I did too, it was too blue there although I like it on my layout.

Michael

Best deal I found

Honestly, I can not tell the difference in color between  5000 and 6500 Kelvin.  I think you'll be just fine with LED lighting.  If any of you are looking for the best deal in strip lighting check out this price.  And the 12 volt 3 amp power pack to run it could be used for a lot of other things on your railroad.

http://www.amazon.com/Lighting-EVER-Flexible-Daylight-Non-waterproof/dp/B00HSF65MC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=11X89A7HPNTEQFHRCW5E

http://www.amazon.com/Lighting-EVER%C2%AE-Adaptor-Transformers-Supply/dp/B00DKSI0S8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392878738&sr=8-2&keywords=Lighting+Ever+5000028

5050

The Amazon units in you link are 3528 LEDs. A lot less light output than the same strip with 5050 LEDs which are just as readily available. LEDs are great but it takes a bunch of them to light up a layout well. Need every bit of brightness you can get. Makes the 3528 units less than ideal. But they are inexpensive!

6500 K Fluorescents

My 12' by 22' layout room is lit with 8 - 4 ft. fluorescent ceiling fixtures on a white ceiling.  For years I used the cheap, cool white tubes until I came upon the GE Ecolux Daylight F40 tubes with 6500K and CRI 75 for $3.95 at Canadian Tire.  The switch to 6500 K changed the whole appearance of the layout for the better at an affordable price.  I made the same change in the workshop so when I am painting and weathering it will be the same as the layout.

Ian Stronach

Modelling the Canadian Pacific Montreal Terminals Division in September, 1969 

Horses for courses RE throw distance, spread, brightness

Dear Alan,

Respectfully, I gotta call "Horses for Courses". 2x strips of 120-LEDs/m (600 LEDs along a 5m roll) 3528 Warm Whites were waaaaaaay too bright at "full voltage" for my last 1' deep 2' tall enclosed-top proscenium module-based show layout,
depicting a "sunny aussie mid-day scene", 
and during initial testing a single strip was significantly-brighter than needs required...

With a 8-step dimmer inline, the appropriate setting for indoor display was deemed acceptable by me
(the layout designer/builder/show-operator) and the on-debut 1-day crowd of 5000+ general public viewers as "step 3 (of 8)".

before LEDs-on

WITH LEDs-on

For deeper scenes, taller scenes, and/or scenes with excessive "throw distance" or viewing-distance requirements I totally take your point.

However, the 120-deg beam angle 3528s I sourced were "just the ticket" for my application.
With the noted wide beam-angle, "pinspot"/"hotspot" and "coverage" issues simply never materialised......and rest assured I was strenuously looking for any/all such issues,
I really wasn't convinced in the consistency or color-balance of cheapo LED strips in the beginning,
and had my "Go-To rescue kit" of 20W Phillips BrilliantLine halogens at the ready...  

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I have since trialled a similar rig in a 2' deep x 2' tall proscenium of similar style/form-factor, and while the dimmer setting needed "turning up" some, the coverage was quite comparable, and more-than-adequate for touring-work IMHO...