Proposed Track Plan Insight

Familiar looking plan for HO scale.  But you are doing a N scale switching layout.   It is visually more appealing if you limit the amount of structures that are square with the shelf edge.   Make the main line curve radii as large as possible.  If the switch lead track for the yard is the main line the ability to do anything else when you are switching cars in the yard is pretty limited.  I'd move industry to the back by the yard and use building fronts as part of the backdrop.   Move the engine house to the front so it is easy to swap out engines.   But really I don't see anything that you are going to tear out the day after you finish laying track.

I am not sure if I agree,

I am not sure if I agree, Lee.

I like the way things are laid out and often have switched industrial parks where buildings and properties are like that. Also, I have found 12" radius curves in N scale to be quite adequate for the leads and curves in industrial areas. I like the plan just the way it's shown but might suggest adding a bit more industries to justify an engine facility of that size.

Barry 

Radius, grade? and other questons

    Looks like a nice design for some industrial switching. A couple things I'd consider are the minimum radius, 12 inch might be fine but it's gonna look quite sharp with longer cars on it.I used 22 inches minimum for my N layout and it still could have been bigger esthetically. It looks like it wouldn't be too much trouble to increase that corner radius a bit. Where is the 3% grade?  In an industrial area I wouldn't put in a grade unless I was modeling a prototype that was build on sloped land since it will cause troubles spotting cars and cuts on the grade. I'd try to keep the foreground industries types that don't need a building between the tracks and the aisle  like the propane dealer or lumber yard. Cars spotted behind foreground buildings can't be seen so lose a lot of their visual interest while cars spotted at industries with the loading doors on the aisle side are easier to switch and present a more interesting view.  The question of a loco facility or not would depend  on the type of railroad ,the specific location, and the era. If it's a shortline and this is the heart of it's route then a loco shop would be plausible. If it's a remote location of a larger railroad then they'd probably service the locos somewhere else and just run them thru here to do the work. The more modern the era the less likely there'd be extensive facilities in a minor yard, and after 1960 there probably wouldn't be a freight house, or before 1960 probably not  a plastics manufacturer so something has to give.  The basic plan looks fine so just a bit of era and location tuning and I'd start building.(Actually I'd probably widen the corner curve radius and start building before nailing down the final form as I tend to change my mind as a layout progresses) .DaveB

I like it

I like your plan, but I would suggest not putting the engine house at the end of a long track, rather give it it's own short spur somewhere - maybe the other end of the track it is currently on?

This will leave the longer track available for train sorting and possibly as a team track.

I personally opt for longer

I personally opt for longer mainline if I can achieve it, so if I were building your layout, I'd have a helix at one end and double or triple deck it.  I'm going to link you to Tim Horton's layout here in Vancouver BC.  He has built this layout in his one bedroom condo, its N scale - and very well done.  Go to the Layout Design section and check out his plan.  He has a bit more room but a helix will work for you.  The go to the Construction section and you can see how he built what he has and how he built his helix, you can go smaller is size with N scale:

http://www.bcrdawsonsub.ca/

Radius Grades etc

     I had setup Anyrail to allow for a min of 12" which is why I put the min in the post as 12. The curve in the corner is actually a 14" radius. I could go larger but I didn't what the switch at the top of the yard and the one to the abrasives industry(real life Washington Mills) to be back to back don't know that it really matters but seemed right to give them a little space. I also was trying to design in some areas to get some good photo ops which is why theres the real gentle curve in the trees going by the lumber yard. That curve actually drops about a half inch from the yard to just about the left end of the lumber yard.

      The insperation on the "yard" area is mostly taken from the Grafton & Upton's yard layout(Google Earth - Westboro Road Grafton MA) I started with the prototype arrangement then tweeked to fit the space. The area where the propane dealer is is actually a larger place on the real railroad thats still under contruction/court regulation that will have 2 tracks to service 6 cars total at a time. My mistake to call it a freight house it really is more of a team track with a dock. I will try and take a good picture of it(practically across the street from me so never needed one) has a small enclosed area with a dock door and a 60ish foot long concrete pad to reload freight from a boxcar to trailers. The transload area in real life is a dirt ramp enlcosed by large concrete blocks figure I'd do the same but a little longer on a seperate spur which isn't there on the proto to give me some more options when I do get to operations. As for the engine house I just like them. Seen many a short line with and older but mainly somewhat recently painted one. It was going to start as a 2 stall but only use one and turn the other into a garage type entrance for maintenance vehicles, no fuel or sand facilities. 

       As for grades other than the one from the curve at the corner the propane dealer actually on a slope as in real life. Probably going to be a bit more than a half inch drop. The ready mix dealer spur is actually an abrupt incline insperation for this came from 2011 Model Railroad Planning from the cover story. The proto is Ready MIx Concrete Co. in Sandford NC. The lumber yard would be flat but in front of the end of the grade of the curve. The plastics co would dip a bit but not to much. Maybe me saying 3% was a bit on the large side but haven't cared to calculate the actual grades as bad as it sounds. I just never liked flat and wanted to give the layout a little personality and variety. Plus nothing in my part of Massachusetts is flat everything is always up down left or right 

Hope I explained my vision a little better and THANK YOU all for your suggestions and insights. Going to mess with the plan a little easier to do on the computer than cut up and replace track. Hope more chime in always looking for a fresh point of view or idea cause god knows I don't know everything.

re: rsn48

I completely agree and I wish I could. Really appreciate the link spectacular layout design. Unfortunately my layout is in my living room. I have the bottom of the plywood at 52" to clear any people on the couch and my daughters toy and game bookcases. I was fooling with the idea of a helix and a second deck doing the whole thing modularly so i could make an operation shelf layout like what I posted while I worked on building a larger layout. But when I measured and adjusted for what I had to work around the second deck would almost have my head touching the ceiling when standing on a platform to see the upper deck and with closet door interchange end of my plan and another at the end of the future expansion a helix would cut into the actual modeled portion of the plan by 3 feet (figured 18" radius for the helix)on what ever end I put it. If my apartment was set up differently or had a spare room would def go that road with above or underneath staging. Good part is whenever I get my layout built it is being built with moving in mind so could just relocate it or expand it if I get a bigger place.

Nice plan

Kevin,

I like your plan but it is a bit hard to make constructive criticism without knowing the prototype or at least the era.

However, my 2 cents worth. I agree with the comment from bill about moving the engine shed to what you show as the "Cleanout Track" I think you will need that long track for cars, after all we all have too many cars. I would move the cleanout track to the area between the Propane dealer and the team track and make it into a cleanout/rip track with jacks spare tracks forklift etc. being up close to the edge it could be an eye catching detailed scene.

I also agree with Barry and Lee and would prefer to see a larger radius curve. You could move the turnout that leads to the Abrasive plant down a bit to allow a greater radius and this would give you a bit more siding for that plant.

To give an extra bit interest to switch I would double the track in from of the box manufacturer so that 2 rows of boxcars can be loaded by bridge plates. If you are using some kind of card or switch list system you could specifiy for example door 1 track 2, etc.

If you are modeling modern I would scrap the freight house and make it another industry or at least model it as an ex-freight house now leased to another company. I saw one like this in Texas which was used by a Sheetrock distributor.

i think it is a good plan with lots of potential especially when you add in the extra section,

Comments

I think the plan looks pretty reasonable.

I would think that the odds of running multiple jobs concurrently on a space this size would be almost nil, and the yard isn't big enough to have a dedicated switcher. You'll probably have a single job that can use the yard tracks to sort and store cars, and run through and switch out the various industries. A dedicated, separate yard lead track for something this size doesn't make sense.

Yes, that's possible. There is or was an warehousing/trucking operation in a city I used to live in; I'm not sure if it was the old railroad freight shed, but it basically functioned similarly at least at a local level.

I like your plan and the

I like your plan and the changes the Aussie in OK suggested. Also with a short line and likely one loco sand could be in bags and could get loaded inside the engine house. Fuel could come from a truck. The empty stall of the engine house could store supplies and be the main office for the railroad as well as the location for their hi rail truck and maintenance equipment which would likely be modest. One thing that also happens with short lines is they rent space for storing excess freight cars by the larger railroads as well. So it would be possible to get cars that you really can't use on the layout from time to time, there is a prototype for too many cars.

"Hope I explained my vision a

"Hope I explained my vision a little better and THANK YOU all for your suggestions and insights.'

    Sounds like you had all my concerns under control and had already addressed them. Now get to building on this project! (and please keep us updated on the progress)....DaveB

One last thing to consider

I assume the grade will be in the area shown with trees.  If this is so, I would not do a grade.  The reason I would not do a grade is there is too much going on in the trachwork in that area.  The curve into the turnout on the right hand side needs a transition to the curve and about 20 scale ft of straight before the start of the transition.  So the wat I see your layout you need to change the location of that  turnout towards the yard.  To add a vertical transition to the above would be very difficult to do.  So, to review, you have the curve, the transition, the straight and then the turnout and now you have to superimpose a vertical transition over the area before the turnout.  I would not do it but if you can do go for it.

Also you may consider the recommendation others and rotates the yards a few degrees to help the visual effects.

In general, the layout looks great.  build it.

Mike Lee

Revised plan with considerations

Took everyones suggestion to mind. Adjusted the curve in the corner. Now basicaly an 18" radius with slight easements and moved the turnout for the abrasives co up to the "yard". I deleted the engine house and added another crossover with an engine track instead. I also relocated the turnout for the plastics co.which moved it up enought to to block the view of the backside industries. It also let me add in a dedicated team track for whatever i feel like having on the line.

@ Mike

Instead of a grade are you suggesting he create a cut in the landscape?  A cut would make more sense.  Many towns and cities have areas where tracks were laid through a cut.  The cut would provide another scenic element.  Roads have not been added to the plan.  However, a cut with a 1930s style concrete automotive bridge crossing overhead would add even more to the scenic element.

just suggesting....

Den

Why not both. easy way would

Why not both. easy way would be to use the woodland scenics grades and say run a 2% grade starting a few inches past the last turn out from the yard around the curve and letting it end just before the ready mix turn out. let the two sections be level with a connecting grade. The lumber yard would be modeled at the higher elevation. the height difference although slight likely 25% of what would be required to get one train over another would add some dramatic effect to the layout. The grade could also be the reason for a heavier power on the line or shorter trains or both increasing the work that needs to be done. It could also be one reason the big road that interchanges with this one drops off cars. If the same road and this is just an industrial area to be switched it would be a good reason to justify a switcher on station. The shed could be a good place to store it between runs so as to prevent vandalism.

Grades..

The grade would actually be going down from the yard to the "industrial" area. The Lumber yard would actually be lower than the "main" track. If any of you have the 2011 issue of Model Railroad Planning if you go to the article of the cover story the is a photo of how I plan to model the readymix spur. It is the Readymix plant in Sanford NC, their spur actually go up a grade. Updated the plan a few posts up let me know what you guys think.

Thanks again

Kevin

Started Blog for the layout

Posted pics of the completed shelf benchwork minus backdrop and fascia. The foamboard is just rough cut so far and not glued down yet.All future posts with build updates will be at my blog unless i run into a road bloack and need help of course  

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/blog/31396

Always keep in mind that many

Always keep in mind that many things which model railroaders believe are necessary really are not. 

Yard leads are a good example. Most modelers worry about whether their yard is correct if it dosen't have a yard lead, arrival or departure tracks. These are generally found, at least in modern times, only in larger yards where there is a lot of activity. I have run railroads the size of your model and I was lucky if I had one run around track on the whole lne. Railroaders tend to become very creative and learn how to make things work rather than adding a lot of expensive track and switches just to make things easy to switch.

I like the latest version of your layout but you could easily get rid of both crossovers and the far right yard track since they don't serve an industry and only cost extra money with no value added. Also I see there is no engine facility and that's good as this size operation can't really justify one or the rip track. Either of those functions can be handled on the transload/team track by paving it smooth for use of car jacks for light, car repairs, a fork lift to raise a pallet of sand bags for locomotive sand, a local fuel vendor' truck for fuel and a shed/office for storage of extra, track tools, knuckles/pins, air hoses gaskets and a computer/fax/machine crew room/office. With the small amount of industries you also could easy get by with one less yard track as there really won't be much classification of cars done here. A smart conductor would line up his outbound cars as he switched from the EOT going right and keep them separated for easy delivery to the interchange road upon return to the yard.

Okay, I probably burst a couple of modeler "bubbles" but why spend money when you don't need to just because there is a theory that it's required? 

Barry

"The grade would actually be

Grades

Maybe, although I'd do more like a 0.5% grade just to provide a bit of terrain and subtle variation. A 2% hill is pretty significant inside a compact area like this. I wouldn't go that much personally.

You could even extend such a shallow grade right past those three switches and even it out between the Plastic Co. spur and the Cardboard Box/Appliance spur.

To make things more interesting, you could even raise the lumber spur up a bit more so that the main track rises up through the switch (but again, at a very shallow grade like a half a percent) and the spur track evens out and then rises up* - but really only very slightly, like a 1/4 inch or less, just enough to have a visual effect if you stand by the plastic switch and sight down the tracks.

(* Or simply do this the opposite way around if you want the yard part higher than the industrial part and have the lumber spur drop down.)

Of course keeping the whole thing flat would be a lot easier to build, but if you want to put in some grades and changes in elevation, I say go for it, but keep it subtle.

Grades

I was a bit foolish to put in the plan 3% max grade it is very misleading. I put the min radi and max grades as they were when I setup the plan in AnyRail to keep me from going crazy with stuffing to much in. It helped as just a few of the sidings caught myself trying to make the curvature off the switch to sharp. The Grades were and are going to be more for visual appeal than being a hill climb. Even with the sidings to me having everything not look flat is more appealing to me. More work yes but hey I like the challenge and think it will look better in the long run. Not knockin you suggestions as taking the grade that far I never thought about and will give it a look. Best thing about this site is all the insight and different point of views you can get.

"The Grades were and are

"The Grades were and are going to be more for visual appeal than being a hill climb. Even with the sidings to me having everything not look flat is more appealing to me. More work yes but hey I like the challenge and think it will look better in the long run. '

   I'm doing the same thing on my N scale layout. I dropped the sidings and spurs about 3/32 inch below the mainline in a distance of about 3 inches which is about 3% which sounds steep but with vertical curve easements the locos have no problem pulling or pushing cuts of cars up or down. I'd definitely go with lower level spurs and sidings if you don't mind the extra work as it makes the scenes look more realistic in most cases.. ...DaveB