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Kalmbach Special Issue "Realistic track"

If you use acrylic latex

If you use acrylic latex caulking sparingly to affix your tacks to the roadbed, no matter what the latter is, you will have "reasonably" quiet tracks.  As soon as you ballast, no matter with what material, and no matter with which fixative, your tracks will be more-or-less as noisy as any other on the scale planet.  IOW, the single greatest culprit for noisy tracks is the hardened ballast.

I have always been amazed at how quiet the tracks are over my wooden trestles and bridges.  While my ballasted rails, whether with splined roadbed or something else, is noisy, when my trains pass over a bridge, they do dead quiet.

-Crandell

If not portable...

Unglued Ballast attempt

A friend of mine tried the "Unglued Ballast" method on his N scale German Prototype layout in Australia. He gave up after about 3 months!! Ballast "walks" everywhere just from the vibrations through the benchwork.

Maybe if the ballast was truly broken rock as opposed to smooth grains it might stick together but from what I have seen most commercial ballast is very smooth. Also i believe that the ballast is so light that the vibrations will bounce it around even if the friction was there to hold it together. The inverse square ration means that ballast is much lighter scale wise than just reducing it to scale ie a 1:160 scale piece of ballast is not 1/160th the weight of a full size piece the equivalent size. It would be more around 1/6,000,000 (I think!) the equivalent given that the 2 samples were even of the same material. 

Even a lot of Large Scalers glue there ballast because it "walks"

Basically it is not worth it!!

OKGraeme

Layout Cleaning?

If the ballast was not glued down, how would you vacuum your track?

I don't think I like ballasting enough to do it again

Sound barrier

I am going to attempt to put an eitherfoam barrier between the ballast on the spline and the ballast or hard shell next to it . This should stop the transmission of the track noise to the scenery shell. I expect to have the first of this done mid winter and will post results then. Blayne

Best Roadbed for quietness?

I've heard the best is solid dirt or concrete bench work but I've never tried it. Perhaps some garden railroaders can comment? .DaveB

Ballast Glue

The laws of physics don't scale down.  Prototype ballast is held down by gravity, which doesn't work nearly as well with the smaller particles needed for our models.  The weight of a piece of HO scale ballast is 1/(87 cubed), or 1/658,503, of its 1:1 equivalent 

I've seen layouts featuring unglued ballast and almost invariably the result is a mess.  You can't use a vacuum to keep the layout clean.  You can't glue weeds or other details around the track.  Stray ballast always works into movable parts of turnouts. The ballast gets messed up when you:

• Put a car on the track and hit the ballast with your fingers
• Operate a ground throw
• Hit the ballast with an uncoupling pick
• Bump the benchwork accidentally
• Walk on the floor and transmit vibration to the benchwork
• Run trans that cause the track to vibrate
• Open or close a door quickly and cause too much air movement nearby
• Have dust particles float onto the ballast from the HVAC systems or just what's naturally in the air
• Have visitors over who don't know the ballast is loose and/or aren't familiar being around it, and do something to disturb it inadvertently
• or, yes - sneeze

Those are just the issues I can think of right off.  I must admit I'm not one to worry about sound transmission much compared to some, but I glue all my ballast and don't find my layout to be at all noisy.  

You glue down ballast for a

You glue down ballast for a couple of reasons, one already given.  The most important, in the long run, and only in my view, is to keep the tracks from wandering as well.   If you have trouble keeping wooden benchwork within a relatively narrow range of humidity, your milled lumber will change dimensions.  This causes all sorts of problems with tracks...buckling, skewing, long gaps, shortened gaps or worse...closed gaps....while glued ballast mitigates these problems largely. 

One other advantage...sometimes, despite our best efforts, a joint along a curve just doesn't hold the two joined ends along the nicely drawn centerline curve.  There's a kink there, even a barely noticeable one.  If you are fastidious, and don't want to keep renewing the joint, you place some track nails near the ends and force the ends to adopt the proper geometry.  Then you ballast and glue.   When it hardens, your joint is 'armoured', and you can remove the retaining nails or screws.

Why "quiet" track?

Just being the devils advocate here, but what's all the fuss over "quiet" track?  Can't say as I've ever heard a train roll by "quietly"!  Personally myself, I just laid good old cork roadbed down and I find that works good for me.  Trains make a lot of noise in real life, so a small amount of track noise to me is appropriate.

I'm with Nelson

Quieter Cars

Hello All,

If the doors on your boxcar don't open use one of the following to quiet them down:

For larger scales, a square of foam carpet pad bent into a "U" between the sides of the car;

For smaller scales, use a cotton ball or makeup sponge.

It also works on covered hoppers and containers.

Hollow plastic boxes are noisy and deadening the echo and rattle helps.

So what?

I used Bill Schnieder's method he used on his NYO&W; luan plywood roadbed. I found it to be extremely loud, so I'm back to cork after using the plywood in a whole yard. A friend of mine tried the camper tape, the tape dried out after a couple years and caused track to come loose in places, it was a disaster. 

Has anyone ever tried finely ground foam as ballast?

I haven't had much luck finding the colors I'd like but then again there may be other reasons folks might find this material appealing (dust trap?).  Seems to me that even glued it would be less likely to vibrate and conduct sound.

And then we............

ADD sound to our locomotives, and now we can also have a NOISY car on purpose from Soundtraxx!!! 

Add that all up and trust me, you won't be able to hear your track!

Volume

That's right, just turn the volume right on up!

Foam - it's the answer.....

For ear plugs, that is!  If train noise is a problem just get you a pair of foam ear plugs, insert, and enjoy the quiet!  Couldn't resist!

Ear Foam

Rich,

When I saw your comment with the photo of ear plugs, it reminded me that we like our trains to run as prototype as possible, and as we are the engineers of our trains, we should be using the ear plugs as a safety features and be ourselves as prototype as possible.

sound from track

Hi Guys,

If you are having sound coming from the ballasted track have a look at your sub road bed frame is a box open at the bottom?if so you have a sound amplfier. I use foam under my  3mm MDF road bed [N scale] not 15mm ply and have a very quite layout, just a thought

Cheers,

Hutch  in good old South Australia.

An April Fool's in August?

I guess the wisenheimer response would be to find some sort of chemical compound that when dry does not harden to a state that transforms the track into a monolithic noise transmitter (a latex-like substance that is absolutely clear and matte when cured with no surface tension so it flows uniformly [not to mention non-toxic and cheap!]) or a white-noise generator tuned to the specific frequency of track noise, programmed through your DCC sound generator to individual sub-miniature axle-mounted speakers mounted on every truck in your rolling stock fleet (this would be one of those 15 part how-to articles that would have driven Steve Jobs to take up whittling).  OK, Dupont and Atlas; you have your marching orders.

In all seriousness, I actually don't mind the noise.  For me, it's one of those sense memories from childhood of the wheels on the track and just losing myself for hours watching that Tyco trolley run itself round and round at a scale speed-of-light until the motor burned out.  And yet, 50 years later, here I am still playing with trains (**wistful sigh**).

Cheers, all.

quiet roadbed

There are many ways to reduce roadbed noise.  Speaking only for myself, I do not like any approach that attempts to eliminate noise by introducing flexibility or elasticity, i.e. homasote, foam roadbed, acrylic caulk, etc., even though many fine layouts have been built using these materials.  My highest priority is perfect, permanent vertical and horizontal alignment of all track work.  In my experience this cannot be accomplished unless the roadbed is absolutely stable and unyielding.  So, what to do?  In the absence of elasticity you need stiffness to prevent the roadbed from behaving like a drum.  I accomplish this in three steps.  First, the benchwork is extremely stiff and stable with robust risers supporting the roadbed every foot.  Second, I use a sub-roadbed of high quality 3/4" plywood which is screwed to the risers.  Third, roadbed of one-inch thick milled basswood is screwed to the plywood sub-roadbed.  Everything is always screwed together which is easier, faster and more easily adjusted or changed relative to using glue.  The combination of stiffness and mass results in a near-silent track structure.  Yes, this approach is material-intensive and expensive because of the high quality of the materials.  However, these costs can be spread over many years given how long it takes to build even a medium-size layout.  Also, do not overlook the benefits of building a smaller and simpler layout which is better built, more highly detailed, and operates well.  I hope this helps.

Spline + cork = latex caulk + track + ballast

My son and I use hardboard spline hot glued to make the sub road bed on our NWP in Ohio. We use Alex Plus to glue down the cork roadbed. Then we use Alex Plus to glue down flex track. Our next step is to glue cardboard strips to form the scenic contours, then hot glue red rosin paper to the cardboard frame. We cover the rosin paper with Lou Sassi's "Ground Goop". The last step is to ballast the rail, securing it with thinned white glue.

The basic spline roadbed is dead quiet without scenery. In the past, attaching a plaster hard shell to the roadbed, and then securing the ballast to the roadbed and plaster scenery always seemed to amplify the sound. It appears that the paper and cardboard scenery doesn't amplify the sound the way the "hard shell" does.

In our search for  quiet running, I believe we have to address the whole system. It has become more important to us since 2 P2K SP SD-9's with sound started running on the layout!

Richard Todd

Building the NWP in Ohio

Noisy track – noisy trains.

Noisy track – noisy trains.

So what?

But to my ear, our models sound nothing like the prototype.  But many other modelers will have different expectations, which is what makes the hobby a great place.

The construction techniques in the MR “Realistic Track” special issue are designed to attenuate the clatter, and enhance the sound system.  Hopefully others will try different approaches and achieve even better results, or at least results that satisfy their objectives.

My HO track (flextrack on cork on camper tape on cookie-cutter ¾” plywood) has been in place for six years.  Following are comments based on my experience relating to the issues raised in this blog, starting from the top.

Noisy ballast can defeat the benefits of a “quiet roadbed” – I agree that the glue used for ballast can create a “hard shell” that accentuates the noise.  And “hard shell” plaster scenery can also transmit the noise.  To avoid that issue, I used DAP 3.0 caulk to glue the flextrack and apply the ballast at the same time.  Alex caulk would also work.  Both caulks have remained flexible and even tacky after six years.  I believe the flexible caulk helps to control the noise.  And I have used Sculptamold for scenery, expecting that material to transmit less noise that plaster.  Although the Sculptamold touches the cork, I am not hearing a “soundboard” effect.

“Sound barrier” – I am not an “acoustical engineer”, but I believe the effectiveness of the roadbed sound attenuation comes from the “mixed materials”.  Doubling the thickness of a cork roadbed does not change the sound very much.  Thicker Homasote has little effect.  But mixing layers makes a difference.  Each material will tend to transmit a different spectrum of sound waves.  What vibrations get passed through cork will be somewhat different than the spectrum transmitted by camper tape.  I suspect that in the cork/camper tape mix, the cork provides some damping and the camper tape does a good job of isolating the sound from the plywood subroadbed.

Yes, quiet rolling stock will make a big difference.  A solidly glued-together boxcar will be much quieter than the same box car with an open door!  My noisiest car is a cattle car.  Good thought about stuffing a carpet pad or sponge into the car.  Also consider the wheels.  Cast wheels (those with the neat foundry lettering on the wheel face) will be rougher and noisier than turned wheels.

“The camper tape dried out after a couple years – disaster” – Sorry to hear it!!!  Mine has been in place for six years and is as good as new.  I used the tape manufactured by Gaska Tape (gaska.com) model V610BK.  Keep in mind that this tape is used to form a gasket between the pickup truck and a camper shell, and is exposed to the elements from Alaska to the Baja.  Incidentally, I use a layer of Alex caulk between the camper tape and the plywood, and do not rely on the manufacturer’s adhesive.  Also, the Alex allows me to adjust the position of the tape, whereas the manufacturer’s adhesive is an instant grab.   And I use Alex to glue the cork to the camper tape. I supposed some adhesives could cause a deterioration of the camper tape.

Laminate flooring foam sheet – I have not explored flooring materials.  Check out Jim Richards’ article in MR October, 2010, page 45.  Try an experiment.  Lay down several lengths of flex track, end-to-end, using the different construction materials.  Roll a car along the track and listen for the difference.

Costs! – My local camper shell installer charges me about $10 for a 30’ roll of 2” Gaska camper tape – the charge depends upon how he is feeling that day!  So, $0.33 per foot.  Midwest cork $0.67 per foot.  Atlas code 83 flextrack $1.50 per foot.  Total $2.50 per foot.  US dollars. 

Introducing flexibility or elasticity – I was initially concerned about the “softness” of the camper tape construction, but again, after six years, no problems.  Admittedly, I don’t walk on the track, and a dropped hammer would probably leave a dent.  My layout has seen seasonal temperature swings from 55 – 85 Fahrenheit, and unknown humidity swings (I live in southern Oregon), but I have never experienced any negative effects.  Knock on wood, I do not have derailments – other than over-running a thrown switch!  But “rigid”, it is not.  Just quiet.  To repeat, different objectives will drive different construction techniques.

I use acoustic earmuffs when I use the power saw, but not when running trains.    Keep looking for your “right” solution.  And have fun!