Hi Bill,

My layout, the Bear Creek and South Jackson was featured in OSL3.

The DS and crews communicate with FRS (family band) radios with headsets. Joe Fugate and I share a pool of operators and both of us run under TWC (Track Warrant Control) in which the dispatcher dictates a warrant to a train crew granting them authority to occupy a portion of the track on the layout. To make this work the DS needs reliable radio communication with the crews. Many of our crewmen purchased their own radios (which is much appreciated by us Superintendents as buying a dozen radios with headsets would be rather a large expense for us).

Since we got our radios technology has changed. The radios we purchased (about 4 years ago iirc) were rather short range (perhaps 1/2 mile) and required no license. Now radios in these frequencies are much more powerful with ranges of over 10 miles for some models. And they require a license application be filled out and submitted to the FCC (in the United States). I'm not sure of the compatibility between the hi-powered newer models and our old models but I think they work ok.

Both Joe and I used to use the 5 channel analog Maxon or Radio Shack radio headsets. These had the disadvantage of being on the same frequency as baby monitors and other such devices making it hard to find a clear frequency for our railroad chatter at times. They were also susceptible to static from devices such as a DCC command station.

The FRS radios we use now  have many more channels that the previous ones and the sound quality is much better. They also are a lot more resistant to noise (its possible to walk around a DCC command station without the radio going berserk).

While our FRS radios have headsets with VOX (voice operated trainmitter) capability we prefer to use PTT (push to talk) mode. The reason being that any loud noise or even a conversation between an engineer and conductor are enough to activate the VOX mode and broadcast audio spam. In push to talk the radio user must push a button to transmit so there are no inadvertant noises or chatter on the radio.

I use a single channel for my operations while Joe uses two, one for the dispatcher and another for the Roseberg yard master.

We've found that calling the dispatcher for a warrant helps slow the pace of operations a bit. Even on our fairly large layouts there's entirely too little track which tends to make each run finish way too quickly. Taking time to request, copy, and read back a warrant really helps slow down the pace a bit.

If you're interested in more information about operations on the BC&SJ you can check the following links on my BC&SJ operations website pages.

s145079212.onlinehome.us/rr/operations/twc.html - Dispatching with Track Warrants

s145079212.onlinehome.us/rr/operations/session.html - op session info for crews and dispatcher

Note (and confession) - I'm using TWC temporarily until the rest of the BC&SJ is constructed because it was relatively quick to get going and it's easily understood by crews. However, TWC didn't come into major use on the prototype until around 1980 when radio technology got good enough to permit it. Since the Bear Creek is based in 1952 this represents a significant temporal anomaly.

At some point I'd like to move the operations to the Time Table and Train Order system which is more era appropriate. Although CTC (centralized traffic control) would also be appropriate for 1952 I prefer a dark (unsignalled) railroad partly because I'm lazy and don't relish the task of installing (and paying for) a complete signaling system and partly because (to me anyway) following a bunch of stop lights around a layout isn't as much fun. However that's not to say CTC isn't a good system - especially if you want to move a lot of trains.

Having the DS in a separate room is a good way to go providing the most realism in DS/crew communications (if you can get past the incongruity of using radios to communicate over a distance of <100'!). If you do build a CTC panel you won't need the radio headsets as once the crews are out on the high iron there movements are controlled by the signals and the DS throws all the switches.

Building a segment of the layout to get started sure seems like a good idea to me.

Hope this was helpful.

Charlie Comstock

Charlie,

 If by the "newer model" radios you mean the GMRS ones, I have two of them (and a Phillips headset I picked up for $10 at Lowes) and they have worked at Joes. It took a bit of tweaking to figure out the frequeny settings to they would talk, but it was doable.

I use the Maxon radios too but what I really want are telephone handsets located in proximity to phone shacks. Does anyone have any info on how to create the circuit(s) and where to get non push button phone equipment?

Hi Charlie,

I often wonder about using radio head sets but think it might be an overkill on my smallish layout which is 25'x10' and resides in half of a double garage. We have a crew overseering staging, two road crews and a yard master at the main town on the layout. The dispatcher at present sits at a desk facing away from the layout with a compuerised dispatchers magnet board. The DMB was developed from an article in the OPSIG's journal "The dispatchers Office".At present he converses with the operators and train crews verbally. With radios we could put the dispatcher in the entrance hall out side the garage or even put him in a comfy chair in the lounge room directly above the garage.

Have you heard of radio headsets being used on similar sized layouts?

While a 10x25 layout room could easily dispense with radios (or other electronic forms of communication) in favor of audio communications (yelling at the DS), headsets (or handsets) may provide an extra sense of prototype in an op session.

I don't know of many layouts using radio headsets. I'd guess they're an artifact of TWC or DTC dispatching where crews are in direct contact with the dispatcher. For TT&TO the dispatcher should (in theory) be dictating all orders to operators who then 'hoop them up' to the crews. But TT&TO works best when there are long enough runs that the DS has a bit of breathing room to get out the necessary orders. CTC doesn't use much communication at all other than to let the DS know a new train is entering their territoy. After that it's being led around the layout by the signals with the DS throwing all turnouts before you arrive.

So if you're interested in TWC operation you might consider the radios despite the somewhere compact layout size. But audio commincations probably would work fairly well too.

Hope this is at least somewhat helpful.

Charlie

I've never operated on a layout using radios, probably because I operated on only one different layout a year.

The majority used TT&TO for control, where radios could be an anachronism.  Some of these used phones to communicate among dispatcher, yard masters, and train crews.  The phones were located at most towns, wherever the layout owner thought it logical for a phone to be located.  In these instances, the dispatcher was often in a different room (kitchen?) from the layout (garage?).

Mark

I have only experienced Holler Dispatching with "You want me to what?" order verification. It would be fun to try things out with heads sets. My layout will be sized such that will be pretty silly.. but some of the layouts I have had the priveledge of operating would be big enough.

I do have a place planned for a dispatch desk under the stairs, but it won't be isolated enough to matter. At first  I will probably just use the same "walk around" dispatching others have been using during our op sessions.

Chris

Even using across the layout conversation can be fun if you use prototype speak ...

Conductor: "Dispatch, this is the Oakland Turn, SP 4408 in Roseburg yard, ready to depart ... over."

Dispatcher: "Okay, 4408, tell me about your train ... over."

Conductor: "Dispatch, we have 17 cars plus a crummy ... over."

Dispatcher: "4408, you ready to copy a warrant?"

Conductor: "4408 ready to copy, dispatch."

Dispatcher: "This is track warrant 27, dated July 24th, 1988, to SP4408 in Roseburg ..."

And so it goes. Feels very railroady when done this way, and it's great fun!

With a little practice, this becomes very second nature. You get so you don't want to move your train anywhere without first getting permission - which is exactly how it works on the real thing.

One of the problems that plagues my gaming group is some people will "play in role" and others are just a nerd with throwing dice and pushing numbers around. I have tried to encourage "real" train talk at the sessions I have visited but most people don't want to play. I end up just sounding silly at best, and pushy at worst.

One nice thing about having my own operating layout down the line is I can set the tone of the session and try something like Joe describes above.. but much like my gaming table.. there are people who just won't take the next step.

Chris

<With a little practice, this becomes very second nature. You get so you don't want to move your train anywhere without first getting permission - which is exactly how it works on the real thing.>

Anyone who has a wife should already be operating that way so it shouldn't be so strange, at least not to those of us who are married or have been married.

Irv