Your basic layout shapes

Your basic layout shapes are:

• I
• L
• T
• C
• S/Z
• O (C + I)
• J/U (L + I)
• G (L + L)
• E (C + T)

The shapes you choose will likely be influenced by if you plan to model one location or several.  For example, if you plan to have several towns you'll probably use a lot of C's and L's to optimize the length of the mainline, having the industries run parallel to the mainline or having few industries along the main with the focus being on yards/interchanges at each town.

If you instead plan to model one town with a focus perhaps on yard work and local switching then you might opt for more E's and T's with the industries perpendicular to the mainline on short peninsulas and large yards on the long runs.

Other considerations:

• Do you need to leave any room for a workbench or other non-railroad area?
• Will people be able to follow the train without having to run around long peninsulas?
• Where will operators most likely "camp out" while switching or operating?  Will the aisles be wide enough there for people to pass?

the electric panel

Subject to questions from titus, that 8-foot wall beyond the box looks tempting. There could be a turnback blob at its end with spurs for industries, etc., and there still would be no-stoop access to the track next the wall. The liftout 2-track mainline you mention helps this.

I've soaked up enough John Armstrong writings to ask - what are height from floor to bottom of the electric panel, and also height above the panel? Do you care about access to the entire panel, or just to be able to open its door?

Below the box could be a place for staging for one of your connecting short lines, or even for one end of the CSX.

Wilder: if you consider two decks, the main line could start at the 8-ft wall and run below the box or its door, then climb on a grade along the 33 ft of clear wall, turn in a blob at the far end, and climb some more to pass above the box to terminate at upper level along the 8-ft wall. With a 30-inch radius at the midway loop you could rise 20 to 30 inches with 3% or 2% grades without a helix. Or use a helix to make the long runs more level.

Cheers,

jolS

I would probably go for

I would probably go for multiple towns/industries over a single town and yards.  One idea I had for the 8' section was a branch line off main layout that leads to a large paper mill.  Other idea is I have an 8' staging yard etc. 

The height to bottom of electric panel is 48 ".  It goes pretty much to ceiling.  I want to have access to panel without much fanfare.

The other way to look at this

The other way to look at this is not, "how much layout can I cram in this space?" but, "how little layout can I build and still have something I'm really happy with?"

I'm actually in a very similar situation as you, the basement just got finished and I'm in early stages of building benchwork and planning.  What I did was kind of a 5 step process:

1. Determine what industries I wanted to have (chosen for operational potential, modeling interesting, or just because I like the car types that sit at it)
2. Sized each industry**
3. Made sure it was plausible that all my industries would appear together once I had the final list
4. Figured out where the largest industry would go, then the next largest, until they were all placed.
5. Drew track to connect them all

I have a space slightly smaller than yours, 16x11.  I picked 10 industries and my first pass at the design I attempted to put all of them in an L shape along the outer walls.  Only when they didn't fit did I start to look at peninsulas.  However by that point I knew how big the peninsulas had to be because I had sized the industries (step 2).

** = There are different ways you can size industries.  In my case I did a t-shirt size to represent the overall, then did my best guess at spur count and spur length.  In the case of the large industries, a woodchip loader for example, I measured the cars and calculated the actual length that would be required base on prototype photos.

If a visual would help this is literally how my layout design process started:

Layout Industries Spreadsheet

Something else that's helpful is to annotate if an industries can be a foreground industry or not.  Industries with no or low buildings or where you can model just a see-through loader, for example, are great for the foreground.

You've already started to describe some of this: a large paper mill or yard.  Figure out which is the biggest or more important industry to you and start designing around that.

@ Mu26aeh

the electric panel

In all probability, the National Electric Code applies to your location. Whether it does or not, it certainly provides sound guidance. If I remember correctly, you can have absolutely nothing in front of the panel box or below it for a width of 30" and for a distance of 3' in front of it. It is not acceptable to have to remove a lift-out or any other such obstruction to gain access. If you don't comply with the code, you risk losing insurance coverage if anything bad happens and more importantly, risk life and limb-yours and that of others.

Dante

What scale?

A lot more N will fit than HO scale?   I'd probably just come up with a loose interpretation of the the three short line interchanges arranged in the proper order around a large loop for the continuous running purposes. The left half of the loop could just be a narrow shelf on the walls with removable sections where needed for access. It doesn't take a lot of complicated trackage to interchange cars but it becomes a valuable operations element. .DaveB

Sorry, this would be an N

Sorry, this would be an N Scale layout. 

As for the electric panel, at most all I was planning on doing is having a narrow 4" shelf along the wall connecting the two sections

@dk - I did plan on replacing the heat pump when I built the first one, I just couldn't wait until it was moved

this would be an N

That makes it  a lot easier to fit a nice track plan along those three walls because you could use return loops at each end and not need to circle the room for continuous running......DaveB

the electrical panel

Narrow shelf doesn't cut it. I don't believe that the code allows any obstruction, portable or narrow or not-it's simply not allowed for safety's sake. 

Now if the panel projects from the wall 4" or more and the shelf runs below it, not in front of it, that might work, but I would 1) check the code first and/or 2) call your local electrical inspector. Don't risk safety, money or life!

Dante

I really have to find photos

I really have to find photos of tracks/layouts in front of an electrical panel.  Have to warn these people

I found a topic on here from

I found a topic on here from earlier about the electric panel.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/5929

So I guess that area is out

If it twer I, I'd have a

If it twer I, I'd have a nolix (not a helix, but like it) that would give some open running sceniced track, so your layout would be two or three levels depending on your desires. The nolix would take up the area by the 11 foot wall,  I'd use the "third" level under the first as staging so maybe on 10 inches of separation if in HO. 

I would have a reversing loop at the 8 foot level, again two or three levels, depending on wants, this will give you lots of railroad.  Personally I settled for two levels using roughly the configuration I have suggested to you.

I guess I'm looking at a Nolix too.

Reverse E

Hi All,

Since you're in N scale, I'd use a reverse E(Refer to attached), leaving the electrical box clear as an aisle.

You could put your workbench under the layout and get double duty for the aisle.

Two of the peninsulas could have scenic dividers(mountain/city/etc. shown in red).  

You could adjust the location of the middle peninsula to suit your needs, or add it later as a harbor, interchange or loop with industries on both sides.

Continuous running connections would be easy to hide behind the scenery and you could still operate point to point over 50' if you wished.

My geothermal heat pump was

My geothermal heat pump was installed on Wednesday so I now have my open space to work with.  Next phase is getting help from my father to stud/drywall my basement walls and then I can start layout construction.  Of course, have to get a design before construction. 

electric panel

Too much focus on the "given space"

I mentioned this in a different, but similar discussion concerning layout configurations in a given space.  The other discussion also had space constrains like electrical panels.  

Although it is very important to understand what can fit into the available space it is also equally important to understand what the design of the layout is.  In another words, be careful not to let the the space exclusively dictate the design of the layout.  I personnel have to remind myself of this when I am working on a new design. 

Having a good understanding of what you want the layout to look and operate like AND having an good understanding of what can be fit into the room should be the goal.  Staging or an industry should be in a certain location because the design works best that way, not just because the room allows it.  A reverse "E" was recommended as a good way to use the space available, but only if it supports the layout design wanted.

r/

Art    

Electric panel

If I had my druthers I would look into relocating that panel down lower on the wall. I cannot see any reason why it could not be located below the layout, assuming that the layout is 4' or more above the floor. As for me, I don't very often go near that facility so a little stooping to reach it would not inconvenience me all that much. That 3'x4' space is prime location and I find it tempting to take a closer look at "off the wall" solutions. In any case it would not hurt to ask an electrician's advice.

Leo Johansen,  London, ON

Scale Drawing of your space

Here is a "more to scale" drawing of your space:

Off the wall ideas

Too bad you had to remove the old layout. I noticed I had a copy of the trackplan from out last trackplanning discussion.

There is no reason to block the electrical panel, you can get totally creative inside this space.

Here are 2 general ideas.

Here is a "more to scale" drawing of your space:

Looks plenty big enough for an N scale layout.   I'd just come down that 26 foot wall till I got near the electric panel then angle  out into the room for a turnback loop and leave the panel in it's own little aisle behind the backdrop.The panel nook could have shelves for rolling stock or materials  storage and could even have a staging track or yard on the backside of the separating backdrop..DaveB

Space in front of electric

Space in front of electric panel will now be where my work bench will be located, so general layout space will be 11' x 22'.  Thank you Bill for blocking the drawing out for me.