OPS SIG had presentation on it

Several years ago I attended an OPS SIG weekend and one of the presenters had a class on it. There were several references from the Design SIG newsletter and you may want to start there

Steve

I can't comment on a layout

I can't comment on a layout in a container but I did live in a "motel" made out of containers only at the Vancouver Winter Olympics in Whistler, just outside of Whistler actually.  One room unaltered is quite narrow.  We had "common" areas that were also made out of modified containers with the long sides taken off.

It wasn't my favourite accommodation and I can't imagine what the heat would be like in summer.  Definitely a higher air conditioning electrical bill using metal as your house surround.

Do-able, If You Do It Right...

Dear ???

Yes, believe this has been discussed here previously.

See  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/anyone-built-a-layout-in-a-shipping-container-12190101 
("MRH search" at top right of the MRH page is your friend... ).

There is a small worldwide movement of people repurposing containers for domestic housing, from "2nd hand DIY" up to "architecturally-designed show homes" based on ISO containers. The DIYer websites have much useful info, including the need for vapour barriers and insulation, to combat the inherrent condensation/moisture issues of a steel-sided box.

In the Industrial and Mining worlds, Container conversions are massively practical and widely deployed, esp where the industry is required to be "re-locatable" easily. One local example is http://www.portcontainerservices.com.au/shipping-container-conversions.htm

(they even have "container conversion of the month" contests... ).

In short, yes, a layout-in-a-container should be do-able. However, to do it right in such a manner that it will give an inviting, usable, and long-term viable layout space, expect to have to do a bit more than just "drop the container onsite, and start building the layout"...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS it is entirely possible to land 2 containers side-by-side, cut the long walls open, and forma  16' wide room.
However, to do so and maintain both structural and weatherproof integrity again requires you to do the work...
(Oh, and don't forget that something this size may require local council/govt planning/permission!!!!)

Another thing to remember...

Tornados and other windstorms are drawn to loose things on the ground like a locomotive motor attracts track nails. A container is in that category, too... you're going to need AT LEAST a heavy slab with lockdowns to match the container hardpoints... since you're doing a whole home, I'd suggest burying them and making the entire thing underground - and immune to such issues as 200 MPH winds. Add waterproofing and foam insulation outside before you pile on the dirt, and you'll solve a number of the potential problems this kind of construction might otherwise have. (...and you can use the leftover foam to scenic your railroad...)

Container homes

I had heard some time back about container homes but this post caused me to take a Google cruise to see the latest developments. People are doing amazing things with container homes. Somehow I suspect it is the uniqueness that makes them attractive. When one considers all the fabrication costs associated with construction it is hard to imagine they are inexpensive.

Doesn't mean they can't make a great railroad room though. The width might be an issue unless the layout is designed long and narrow. Putting two containers side by side to form a wider room would require some cutting and welding but can't see any reason why you couldn't do it. Imagine modeling modern era with container stacks running inside your container house!

A buried container.....

..... for the train room can double as a hurricane or tornado shelter. May be easier to get permits and safeguard your most valuable asset.... Just thinkin'. Jose.

I've spent some living and working in them

But I think your nees as far as construction methods will be met on container housing centric discussion groups and websites. The needs of building your home in that environment and the needs of building your layout in that environment are nearly the same so the questions here should be railroad specific. What would serve you best from this community would be input on what is essentially a 7' 6" room by 39' 6" room layout plan. You can have a pretty mighty shelf layout wrapped around all sides but the entry door. You'd be limited concerning peninsulas, a few bump outs or wider spots would be ok but no "F" shaped benchwork. Construction will vary slightly. It's not hard to do wood studs inside a container to support your benchwork but if you or somebody you know is at all skilled with a welder, a stack of right angle iron recycled from cheap bed frames and a firm plan can result in some solid bench work really, really fast. Just weld the angle right to the container sides. 

On the plus side, your layout

On the plus side, your layout could survive an EMP attack!

When one considers all the

Yeah, it always seemed to me that it would be a lot easier and cheaper just to design a prefab, modular house from scratch.

Steve S

Because of the trade imbalance

Aussie Container availability

Dear Container-Railroaders,

FWIW

http://www.containersfirst.com.au/used-shipping-container-clearance-store

http://www.constructionsales.com.au/buy/results.aspx?N=1711+1552+1602+1601+4294957215&Ns=p_StockPrice_Decimal|0

http://seacontainersaustralia.com.au/shipping-containers-for-sale-sydney/

Admitedly these are Aussie proces and availability, but it's interesting to note...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Thanks Everyone!

Man have I enjoyed reading your comments!

A little clarity may help.

1) I'm actually situated in the Antipodes, in beautiful New Zealand. Thanks pipopak but earthquakes are the risk here. We've had one fatal tornado in the 45 years I'm lived in NZ.

2) Costs are an issue we are exploring but currently we expect the build price to be around 70% to 80% of an equivalent timber frame house. In this country an **average** house in our area  is $450,000NZD to build so even 20% saving is a big deal! (Other parts of NZ you can by an equivalent house and land for as little as $70,000NZD but my kids don't live near there.)

3) Thanks LKandO for the image - It's stunning and yes, I think my wife is after an architectural statement. I just want a stable train room.

4) And Rustman you are spot on! I was wondering about layout design in a 7'6" x 39'6" room. I suspect I'll have no (real) say in the design of the house - that is definitely my wife's domain!

Thanks also to Prof_Klyzlr for the link to another container Railroad thread.

So, if anyone has ideas on a long thin layout that keeps a 3 to 6 man crew busy, runs 8 x 50' car trains and 12 car double headed through trains then let me know.

Thanks again

So I got curious as to what

So I got curious as to what was available locally in Vancouver and here is what I came up with, you can see they are willing to modify the container for you so I'm sure you have this service in NZ as well:

http://www.insta-space.calls.net/

Why not  use a  Skyline  or

Why not  use a  Skyline  or total span garage, as it would be cheaper  for RMA   fees?

Regards Phil

Auckland NZ

Container in Indiana

Container comments

For those considering containers, a few things not mentioned:

-Tare (unladen) weight of a 40' container is about 8,000 lbs. +/-, so moving it (eventually, if at all) requires a crane and flatbed truck, or a truck with tilting rails and a winch, so that whatever is inside better be well secured.

-In my area (So.Cal.: i.e. earthquakes, winds) I have several farmer friends who have used containers for machine shops, storage, engine houses for live steam locos, etc.           In all cases, they have found that it is prudent to provide an adequate foundation for them.                       Yes, even the wind (60-70 mph east winds)  can tip the containers if they're hit broadside.  And, of course, earthquakes can move mountains up or down 4-6 inches, so a container is like a feather.

-the walls are steel, so insulation is a must.  Also, many of the used containers have damage, particularly salt water corrosion, and need welded patches.

So, an alternative:  obtain a used house trailer or travel trailer.  They're on wheels already, so they can be moved if necessary.  And, they're already insulated, and have windows.  And, they can be secured to the ground using "deadmen"  anchors.

Container vs Skyline (Garage)

Hi Phil

I suspect we have traded a few times on TradeMe.

A skyline would be nice I must admit. My Dad had a 2 car one lined as a rumpus with carpet and a British LMS layout around 2 1/2 sides. It broke my heart having to tear it down when he passed away, hence the thoughts around a container that is more or less mobile. Yes you do need a truck and crane and you should expect there to be some damage to the railroad during such a move.

However, my wife **very keen** to build an interesting architectural design statement that is a bit unique. (There's an amazing container house for sale out in Murawai at the moment). Also have a look at these. http://aplus.com/a/shipping-container-homes. And honesty makes me admit I think it's a stunning idea and looking forward to it!

Thus, any railroad room must blend in and a container is the obvious choice over a sklyine garage. Actually, I rather like the nature of the space. In my imagination the need to walk from on end of a container (39 foot or so) and back again has got to make it feel like the train is definitely going somewhere. Careful location of the towns so that they don't visually interfere with each other should enhance this affect.

Thanks again to everyone who has responded.

Robert

aka R0D0R

A railroad in a container

I have a 40 foot container with personal access door adjacent to the main opening doors which I use as my storage and computer work room and model railroad layout. The personal access door makes it extremely easy to come and go.The outside is painted in a white colour to help reduce heat from the sun plus I have fitted a split system air conditioning unit inside to make things more comfortable on hot or cold days. The container is a standard high cube shipping container so gives slightly higher headroom and makes the appearance of being more spacious. I did contemplate buying an insulated container and am sorry I did not go down that path, although I have had no real problem climate wise. I am now in the process of installing foam insulation sheets along the walls and across the ceiling just to help when I need to use the air conditioner which really only occurs on very hot or cold days. The climate is very pleasant where I live in south eastern Australia. I have installed a series of six light fixtures along the centreline roof on pads I had had welded to the inside roof by the company I purchased the container from. This saved any breaking through of the container roof to attach the lights . They also installed the access door plus an opening for an exhaust fan in the end opposite the doors. This fan is of variable speed and can reverse direction of flow, and has closing shutters, but I rarely use this, finding the open access door usually sufficient for ventilation, etc. There are no other windows or openings, but I have had absolutely no problems with condensation occurring. I feel this makes the room more security secured. I also have a removeable bar fitted inside across the main opening doors at the end which makes them unable to be opened from the outside for added security, the lockable access door being the only normal access. I have fully carpeted the the floor and have installed a free standing interlocked series of steel shelf units along both sides of the container. These are very stable and enable me to have lots of shelf space. Fortunately they stand about 1 1/2 inches clear of the side walls as there was a protusion along the bottom of the side walls which meant the feet of the shelving units could not allow the shelving to actually stand against the walls. This now makes it easy to slide foam insulation sheets behind the shelving, which although would have been simpler to install before the shelving, it is of little problem. The shelving units being 6 feet high and allowing adjustable shelves give me lots of shelf space, but even so I am quickly filling up those places! I am constructing a model railroad layout on one level of the shelving. I have a depth of 2 feet along both sides of the container with a connection shelving across the far end. This area I have installed a Fleischmann turntable with 48 roads storage and 24 road Fleischmann engine shed complex with the main track connection curving behind making use of as much as possible of the maximum radius available of the container width. One side of the container layout shelving is for storage/staging of trains and the other a large station complex based very loosely on a prototype track plan of an area I was very familiar with when a much younger person. At the access door area I am contemplating using an opening half door to connect the tracks between the two shelving units to enable a continuous circuit. The area opposite the access door I have installed my computer equipment and I spend a great deal of time at this point. The only downside to the shelving units are the supporting legs every 6 feet, but being of steeI they are not too conspicuous. If I ever move the container can be craned onto the back of a truck and relocated. I further plan to extend the layout to a second level with a smaller station on a narrow ledge above the main station. The two stations will be connected by long ramps running the full length of the container storage road side to rise and to fall back down again after continuing across the aisle, as to use a helix at both ends would not be possible. I feel a model railroad should need operational requirements and as the station I am roughly basing my layout on was situated at the bottom of a steep gradient up to a higher plateau, where it was essential for most trains to require an assistant locomotive to be attached there, and then detached at the next station at the top of the grade to return back down light locomotive, I think this will fullfill this concept for me. With the large turntable, I shall have access to lots of swapping of locomotives to keep me busy. All this concept is fitting inside a 40 foot steel container. I enjoy spending my time in what is just like an ordinary long, but narrow, train room and recommend anybody needing a relocatable train room to consider. Colin McLeod.

Wow!

Hi Colin

Thanks for your informative post! I'm trying to visualize your setup and loving what I'm thinking! If every there was a good advert for a Railroad in a container then what about a 24 road Fleischmann engine shed attached to a 48 road turnable!

I also love the concept of the computer / office right next tot he railroad.

All the best with your building.

How about some photos.

Building a watch in a rubber case

Shipping containers are, as a whole, a good way for building things - IF you take all the variables into consideration up front. For your intended purpose, here are some of the highlights I would put very high on my list of must do's and things to evaluate:

1.  You must generate a foundation on all four corners that will not only support the container in the vertical down direction, but it will also have to overcome the overturning load exerted by a hurricane force wind load (130-150 mile per hour loading).

2.  Roofing will need to be altered to maintain run-off for rain/snow.  A simple method will be to just add a simple timber truss 'shed' style (pitch in one direction).

3.  A container is an all steel structure. To maintain a water tight condition, all attachments, both inside and out, will need to be welded to the container with screwed/bolted connections to the wood framing. Every inch of insulation you add will decrease your interior dimensions.

4.  IF you are intending to relocate the container, consider that the container is NOT a RIGID item. Lifting the container from the four corner blocks will generate flex (sag) in the middle, depending on how much load is in the container. The container will also 'rack', meaning the ends of the container may twist in different directions. Any form of hard shell scenery may experience some failure in a move.

5.  Like any structure left outdoors it will need to be painted now and again.  The higher the quality paint you put on in the first place, the less often the coating will need to be re-applied. The higher the quality, the higher the dollars.

6.  I would also recommend either removing and plugging the cargo doors or building an interior insulated false wall. The doors are pretty air tight, but not very well insulated.  They might be convenient for the construction stage, therefore the false wall suggestion.

These are lessons I have learned in my experience with a Navy sub contractor designing things for them. I can provide no specific details, but I would recommend looking into a good quality Environmental Control Unit for your task. As a point of interest, you should be able to purchase a once used 40' container for in the neighborhood of $6-8,000 plus shipping to your location.  There will also be the cost of a crane or heavy off road fork truck for unloading from the delivery trailer.

Sounds like an interesting concept, especially if your layout will be in HO or smaller scale.  S might fit for a narrow gague.

Bob C.

I have a 20' version

I, too, thought of of buildings pike in my container but decided on a wood structure in the end. Bob C. pointed out a lot of the similar issues I faced from foundation, interior finish and electrical, exterior - add a "man door", paint and a sloped roof. Since the container was not going to move it seemed reasonable to simply add rigid foam over the exterior and add lap siding for protection. In the end, and despite the low, low cost of the container delivered, I opted to give it up to my wife for feed and tack. 

Some municipalities will exempt these from permits but others are dead set against leaving them in plain view. Our county allows up to 600 square for structures for tools or storage but cannot get electrical installed (legally). Check it out before you buy. 

Neil Erickson