Joe Atkinson IAISfan
I mentioned this in one of the recent RailPro threads, but have been enjoying these changes so much that I felt they deserved more visibility.  I don't claim to originate any of the information that follows, but have been a grateful consumer.  Hopefully other Tsunami users find something useful here.
 
A week or so ago I had a couple of personal breakthroughs with DCC - specifically with Tsunamis - that have had a dramatic effect on my enjoyment of operations, on par with the introduction of sound itself.  Combined, they allow kind of a hybrid approach between automatic and manual notching, providing some of the control of the latter but without the distractions of constantly keying the prime mover sounds up and down.
 
First of all, I finally found a way to overcome the Lenz shortcoming that prohibited me from using Tsunami's working independent brake function in MU consists in the past.  Setting acceleration and deceleration momentum rates somewhat high, the independent brake function allows me to throttle down as I near a stop and hearing the engine notch down as the consist continues to roll forward, then toggling a working "independent brake" on and off as needed to bring things to a complete stop, just as the prototype does.  
 
When starting out with a heavy train, I can set the independent and throttle up the consist, giving the appearance of the units working hard to get the train started.  After a few seconds, the brake is released, and since acceleration momentum is set higher, it just SLOWLY starts to move, then gradually picks up speed.
 
Some other neat uses of this function:
  • When building a train or making a pickup, you can set the independent and throttle up slightly to simulate pumping up the train line air.
  • For modern modelers, especially when using two-man crews, you can use the independent to simulate three-step "Red Zone" protection, i.e. conductor calling out "Red zone" before walking between cars, engineer responding with "Set and centered", referring to the reverser being centered (throttle zeroed) and independent brake being set (corresponding function enabled).
Here are the CVs I changed to enable Tsunami's independent brake function.
 
CV3 – Acceleration
150
 
CV4 – Deceleration
150
 
CV21 – Functions recognized by entire consist
Value depends on function mapping and personal preference
 
CV25 – Speed Table selection
6
 
CV29 – Speed Table on
50
 
CV41 – Map F7 to Independent Brake function
128
 
CV61 – Independent Brake rate
255
 
CV139 - Brake squeal volume
50
 
CV196 – Automatic brake sound intensity
0 (disabled)
 
CV198 – Automatic brake sounds enabled
0 (no - Independent brake makes brake sounds at appropriate times)
 
This is all standard Tsunami functionality, but I wasn't able to use it until recently thinking of a workaround for the Lenz shortcoming that prevented it from being recognized by all units in a consist.
 
The other breakthrough for me was the creation of a "coast" function, and I have to credit Mike Confalone for indirectly giving me the idea for that.  Someone mentioned on another forum recently how one of Mike's MRH DVDs explained his discovery, through a tip from a friend, of configuring the Tsunami dynamic brake function to instead act as a toggle that'd cause the locomotive(s) to go to idle (notch 1) and back again when activated and deactivated.  Since the information was from a paid MRH production, the poster understandably didn't want to divulge the detailed steps to make it happen, but the idea enabled me to find the settings myself, and I really enjoy the effect they provide.  Since I found the CV settings on my own, and since Mike didn't originate the idea himself, hopefully he and MRH don't mind me sharing them here.  I also hope this will serve to drive people toward buying the MRH DVDs on Mike's outstanding work.
 
Unfortunately , the coast function assumes that you don't use dynamic brakes, since you're essentially re-purposing the DB function for this use.  To set up coasting, I configured the dynamic brake function with a volume of 0 (CV133) and a throttle notch of 1 (CV116 - adding 64 to whatever your base value (1-15) is).  In my case, CV116 is set to 79, i.e. 15 speed steps per engine notch + 64 to indicate that the prime mover should go to notch 1.  
 
The above settings allow the function for the DBs, which my prototype didn't use in my era anyway, to instead serve as sort of an "infinite momentum" for situations of very light loading.  So, when running light power to the house, drifting through the yard, or coasting downgrade with a train, I can engage the DB/coast function and the prime mover sound will drop to idle (notch 1) while the consist continues to "coast" at the speed at which the throttle knob is set.  Occasionally disengaging and re-engaging the coast function will cause the engine to throttle up slightly, then back down, as things roll along.  It's really a fun effect, allowing some of the control of manual notching, but with a single on/off toggle, avoiding the distractions of that method.

Joe Atkinson
Modeling Iowa Interstate's 4th Sub, May 2005
https://m.facebook.com/groups/iowainterstate4thsub

https://www.iaisrailfans.org/gallery/4thSub

My MRH blog index

https://instagram.com/iaisfan

Reply 0
dkerber123

Sounds good....

But I have a question... My Maxwell Turn consist is the CFNR 108 equipped with a Tsunami sound decoder and the CFNR 111 equipped with a Digitrax DH165xx. If I enable these functions in my Tsunami equipped loco will it affect the speed match I already have dialed in between the two, or do these function settings only affect the sounds?

Also, I plan to pick up at least one additional sound equipped GP15-1. Will a Digitrax system support these features with two units MU'ed? I am still learning all the "ins" and "outs" of DCC and what can be achieved with it, so please bare with me.

My blog documenting the construction of the CFNR West Valley Sub in HO scale http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16315

 

Dan

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Coast only

Hi Dan - Since the independent brake impacts movement as well as sound, that could only be used on a pure Tsunami consist.  However, you could take advantage of just the coast feature, which is still a lot of fun.  Later, if you decide to add sound to the 111, you could go with the independent brake feature then.

My understanding is that both Digitrax and NCE support these features without a problem.  Worst case, you could do as I had to do with my Lenz system (which initially didn't want to share these commands with more than one unit in the consist) and just configure every unit in a particular consist to the same unit number.  By removing the consist's other units from the track when I programmed certain features, I was able to give each one specific attributes that were appropriate only for its position in the consist.

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

TSU MU'd with non-sound : Use Soundtraxx MC decoders?

Dear Joe,

Could this be a potential justification for equipping non-sound locos with the SoundTraxx MC "motor only" MC series decoders?

http://www.soundtraxx.com/MotorDecoders/MotorDecoders.php 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
dkerber123

Thanks Joe

That's all good info. I should have just purchased the DCC/sound equipped loco from the start. I'm into the non-sound unit for $140 + $28 for the decoder, for a total of $168. The sound units can be had for $180, a $12 difference. Would've, should've, could've. My other units are both factory equipped with Taunami sound and it would be nice to just have everything the same. This is a good reason to pickup more sound units and keep the 111 as a backup.

My blog documenting the construction of the CFNR West Valley Sub in HO scale http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16315

 

Dan

Reply 0
Tore Hjellset

Thank you!

Exactly what I have been looking for. Will these features also work for Soundtraxx Sound value decoders?

- Tore Hjellset, Norway -

Red Mountain Ry. (Facebook)

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Check the docs...

Dear Mr Bridger,

Some of the SoundTraxx OEM decoders are cut-down in features and available CV numbers. Do you have a specific "Sound Value" loco in mind? Most Soundtraxx OEMs have documentation available from the loco manufacturer which provides the list of CVs that are (or are not) included...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
Tore Hjellset

Bachmann S2

I have a cheap Bachmann S2 loco with sound, and I'm eager to try this out.

- Tore Hjellset, Norway -

Red Mountain Ry. (Facebook)

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Some CVs missing, may or may not be critical...

Dear Mr Bridger,

According to the Alco S2 Sound Value documentation on the SoundTraxx site

http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM_pages/bachmann/ho_alco_s2_sv.pdf

the S2 appears to be missing the following CVs from Joe's recipe...

* CV61
* CV196
* CV133
 
Given the majority of the required CV adjustments are included, it is probably worth trying. However, I would strongly reccomend getting comfy with the Reset procedure for the decoder first, and/or read the existing values and note them down so you can "get back home" quickly/painlessly if things don't work quite as expected...
 
Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr
 
 
Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Follow-up

Quote:

Could this be a potential justification for equipping non-sound locos with the SoundTraxx MC "motor only" MC series decoders?

Possibly!  Though I'd suggest checking out the capabilities of those MC decoders to ensure they support the non-sound aspects of the independent brake function.

Quote:

According to the Alco S2 Sound Value documentation on the SoundTraxx site

http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM_pages/bachmann/ho_alco_s2_sv.pdf

the S2 appears to be missing the following CVs from Joe's recipe...

* CV61
* CV196
* CV133

Unfortunately, those could be some critical CVs for this functionality.  Since the S2 didn't have dynamics and the DB volume CV (133) is missing, my guess is that Bachmann went with a stripped down Tsunami that lacks that function altogether.  As Prof said though, it's worth a try!

Prof, I appreciate you posting that link to the OEM pages at Soundtraxx.  That's the first I'd noticed those.  I've got a set of Athearn Genesis IAIS GP38-2s on the way, and while Athearn stated that they support the necessary CVs for the functionality discussed above, it was still nice to confirm it here.

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Another idea

Quote:

But I have a question... My Maxwell Turn consist is the CFNR 108 equipped with a Tsunami sound decoder and the CFNR 111 equipped with a Digitrax DH165xx. If I enable these functions in my Tsunami equipped loco will it affect the speed match I already have dialed in between the two, or do these function settings only affect the sounds?

Dan, I just had another thought.  Since you run shorter trains, I'm guessing you don't actually need two powered units.  Could you de-motor the 111, leaving the Digitrax decoder in it for light control?  Doing so would allow you to configure the 108 for both independent brake and coasting.

Personally, I run several dummies, some with sound and some that have yet to have it installed, and the fact that they lack motors is so "invisible" operationally that I've found myself forgetting which ones are powered.

Reply 0
JC Shall

Coasting with an Alco

I just tried the coasting aspect with an RS3.  It is really cool simulating the engineer bumping the throttle occasionally to maintain his speed.  It works best at very slow speed (which is where it should be for the effect I want).

Thanks for the tip, Joe.

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Great

Great to hear Jack!  I was originally planning to get back to work on photo backdrops this weekend, but I'm having so much fun with these new "toys" that now I'm planning to just operate instead. 

Reply 0
jeffshultz

Weekend, Ho!

This sounds like an excellent reason to get out to the layout and play around. I got one of the SoundTraxx MC's when they were handing them out at the NTS a few years back, and recently put it into service consisted with my first Tsunami equipped locomotive. 

Time to see what this will do in a consist. 

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
mikeconfalone

Coasting with a consist

Thanks for sharing the coasting tip Joe. It was actually discovered by my friend Brian Bennett and discussed in detail in the Allagash ebook V3. To really appreciate the power of this feature, try it with a consist. A trio of Geeps or Alcos sounds amazing as it coasts along with the occasional notch up or down and the inherent M.U delay between Alco and EMD in mixed consists. This same feature can also be deployed with LokSound decoders, but isn't quite as effective. Mike Confalone
Reply 0
rrfaniowa

Loksound effectiveness

Mike, 

Would you elaborate on why the LokSound isn’t as effective? I’m curious about your experience. 

Thanks, 

Scott Thornton

rebanner.png 

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Consists

Quote:

To really appreciate the power of this feature, try it with a consist. A trio of Geeps or Alcos sounds amazing as it coasts along with the occasional notch up or down and the inherent M.U delay between Alco and EMD in mixed consists.

Thanks Mike!  Unfortunately, my only Alco, an MLW M420R, currently has an older Loksound decoder.  However, I've had a lot of fun testing this with EMD 645 and 567 units in mixed consists.  At some point I plan to put a Tsunami in the M420R for better sound, and I'm looking forward to the result.

 

Reply 0
KnuT

SoundTraxx MX and brakes

I think it should be possible to use SoundTraxx Mobile Decoders together with the Tsunami braking function.

There are references to the braking function in both the UserGuide the Technical guids for the MC decoders, like this:

Quote:

CV 61
F11 Braking Rate
Description
Contains a value between -127 to +127 corresponding to the decoder’s
brake deceleration offset:

The F11 braking rate is added to or subtracted from the decoder’s base
braking rate when the F11 button is pressed. The throttle is set to 0, forcing
the decoder to decelerate to a stop.

Page 30 in the User Guide states this:

Quote:

F11 Train Brake
F11 can be used to slow your train down as if the brakes really are applied!

The brake can be function mapped to F7 or other Function buttons.

Well, at least in theory this should work, I think. I have bought both Tsunami and MC decoders to use with my consist, but I have not gotten around installing this, so I am looking forward to hear about your experiences, Jeff.

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Soundtraxx MC decoders

Quote:

I think it should be possible to use SoundTraxx Mobile Decoders together with the Tsunami braking function.

There are references to the braking function in both the  UserGuide the Technical guids for the MC decoders, like this:

That's encouraging news!  Thanks for reporting back.

Reply 0
clarssen

Tsunami settings

Say Joe how about a shot video on the setting and how it works. Sounds great though

Reply 0
KnuT

Thank you for Tsunami settings

Quote:

That's encouraging news!  Thanks for reporting back.

And thank you for sharing your Tsunami settings with us, Joe

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Video

Quote:

Say Joe how about a shot video on the setting and how it works.

Uhhhh...maybe?  I've never posted video before, and I'm not sure how well I could operate and shoot at the same time.  Maybe I could recruit my wife to shoot for me?  I'll give it a try, but we've got a new puppy (seen on my son's photography blog at http://tayloratkinsonphotoblog.com/?p=463 , if anyone's interested), and layout time is pretty rare right now.

Quote:

And thank you for sharing your Tsunami settings with us, Joe 

My pleasure!  I wouldn't have known about these features if others hadn't shared them with me, so I'm just passing along the favor.

Reply 0
Joe Atkinson IAISfan

Video

Well, my first two Youtube videos are now behind me.  The quality leaves a lot to be desired, but hopefully they'll give you a glimpse of the independent brake and coasting functions we've been discussing.  The starts and stops are usually smoother than this, but trying to operate the throttle and camera at the same time proved to be more challenging than expected.

First up, Iowa Interstate train BICB-06 departing Atlantic, Iowa on May 8, 2005 after setting out grain empties, demonstrating locomotives working hard to start a heavy train.  The brakes are already applied at the start of the video and remain set until about the 00:18 mark.

In the second video, the crew has tied down their train on the mainline at the east edge of Bluffs Yard and is bringing their consist to the diesel pad for servicing.  In this video, the coasting function is enabled at around the 00:06 mark, where you can hear the consist drop to idle, and the independent is applied at 00:18.
Reply 0
dkerber123

Vids

Joe, great videos! Thanks for posting them, it really displayed the effects you were talking about. If a picture is worth a thousand words, a quick YouTube vid is priceless!

My blog documenting the construction of the CFNR West Valley Sub in HO scale http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16315

 

Dan

Reply 0
dkerber123

BTW

Those scenes look GREAT!!

My blog documenting the construction of the CFNR West Valley Sub in HO scale http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16315

 

Dan

Reply 0
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