Issues with the railpro...

Here is a shortlist of my annoyances from tinkering with the RailPro this weekend...

1. Manual Notching - I can't get this to work.

2. Popoff Sound - This should be a random repeating sound, but currently it's a manual momentary sound. Ugh. I talked to Ring Engineering on Saturday by email and they indicated that they are integrating popoff an other compressor noises into the engine sound sets, so that will be take care of soon - yay!

3. Uploading prime mover sounds to the HC-2 from the internet takes a really loooooooong time. Like, upwards of 30 minutes! This could be done better. On the plus side, once you have them loaded, you can put them on any locomotive in moments and you don't have to fetch them again.

Everything else? A+ so far.

Peco Gotcha's

Well, my bullet proof Peco Insulfrog turnouts, turned out to have a problem. (see what I did there?)

The older ones actually short out at the frog with the metal wheels. This is unnoticable with DC controllers, but with the RailPro (DCC would be the same) they short (visibly spark) and the loco cuts out.

On the plus side, the loco's under RailPro just resume whatever they were doing once the short is cleared, but the sound and motion does stop momentarily.

The fix for this is easy. I just painted the frogs to protect the the rails from shorting under the wheels.

Store the paint next to the frogs

I have an Atlas turnout that this happens on as well, and I've been using nail polish to try and control it (digging it out and replacing it would be a job and a half).

Let's just say that the wheels rolling over the nail polish wears it down quickly.

Store the paint next to the frogs

I was thinking that might be an issue. We'll see.

Some sort of insulating tape will do the trick if needed. I used black electrical tape to verify the problem and it wasn't a problem for the trains. I suspect it would come loose though. Kapton tape maybe needed.

The path well trodden...

Dear Bill,

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm#a6

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

When the paint wears off...

I'll try the filing suggestion.

Thanks Prof!

Rail Pro worst Controller For Operations

This thing cannot be operated with one hand. It weights a ton, and as a total system will add up to a ton of money. Every time i tried to use it in op session the screen got touched and the controller was off in the wrong location. 

Horses for Courses

Dear Art,

...and when Bill comes round to your layout, he'll have to make do with whatever system you prefer. In the meantime, Bill appears to have found a system which works for him (and his family, Bonus points if it gets the family positively involved with the trains! ), and I do look forward to hearing more of his "clean slate, out of box" experiences...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

@Bill

Glad you got it installed and working!  It is indeed VERY easy to set up.  I'll hit your points in the order you put them:

1.) To get manual notching to work, you need to have three buttons set up.  First, the prime mover on/off button.  The other two are the notch up and notch down, shown in the button list as a picture of the prime mover with a "+" or "-" next them, respectively.  These need to be set to button type "Action", and the action type is set as "Notch Up" or "Notch Down".  To enable manual notching, go to the setup page for the locomotive under Sound Setup.  Switch it to manual notching and save.  It should work fine.  Check the manual if you have any questions...it's pretty thorough, and it's also on the controller itself.

You will notice though that manual notching does not work across consists at the moment.  I've talked to TIm about it and am currently testing a beta update to the LM-2S that enables manual notching for all locos in the consist.  He will be working on a beta to bring the same functionality for the LM-1 within the next week or so.  In the testing I've done, manual notching across consists worked flawlessly and sounds excellent....it really is much more prototypical.

2.) I've asked Tim the same thing and got the same answer.  I do know that they are working on the pop-off and compressor sounds currently.  I'm not sure how they will implement it, but I'm thinking it may be an automatic setting that can be turned on/off from the sound setup menu.  I'm looking forward to when that happens.

3.) Yes, downloading the prime mover files takes forever.  I've just learned to expect it.  But as you said, once it's on the controller you don't need to download it again.  It does still take a while to install prime mover files on locomotives...they are quite large.  

Another thing that takes a long time is updating the controller's software version.  The reason for this is that the controller is both downloading, installing new files, and deleting old files all at the same time.  I just downloaded a beta update for the HC-1 the other day and it took 30-45 minutes for the download/install.  The big thing is to make sure the controller is charged before attempting big software updates.

Enjoy!

-Kevin

Neither have even seen a DCC controller

That's too bad. Kinda hard to make comparisons when one has no experience with anything else to compare it to. Sorta like the kid that hates vegetables but has never tried them:> ) .......DaveB

I think his point was ...

... that the Rail Pro throttle was 'intuitive' enough that even a novice with little or no experience could operate it; at least that was my take on it.

This thing cannot be operated with one hand.

Not even close to true Art. It took me about 10 minutes and my hand found a natural way to hold it and operate with only 1 hand. Really you are so wrong.

It sits very comfortably in 1 hand with the horn and clank & throttle at my thumb.

I do have to use a second hand to tap the direction switch, but I don't have to look at it to do it.

I operated with an NCE DCC controller a week ago and did not find it comfortable or intuitive at all.

I can find the function I want on the RailPro in a quick glance and the functions on the edges are easy to hit without looking. After 2 hours with the NCE, I still didn't know which button was the horn or bell without having to think about it.

RailPro is an elegant system and it CAN be operated with a single hand.

when Bill comes round to your layout

Actually I could bring my locos and my railpro and use it on Art's layout Caus' railpro does that.

But Art won't need to bring his locos to my place. RailPro's DC power doesn't do that.

@ctxmf74

Uhm. you clearly didn't understand the comparison.

I watched myself fumble and mess with an NCE DCC controller for 3 hours. I watched myself, my kid, and my wife pickup the RailPro and be running smoothly in under a minute, with horns, bells, engine sounds etc ... all without any of us asking any questions about how to do it.

There is an experience to compare to. 3hrs <> 1 Minute.

Totally agree, Bill

I have both a Digitrax Zephyr and RailPro (Zephyr provides rail power, plus powers several DCC equipped locos I have).  There is never a thought about which button to press on the RailPro controller, and you CAN hold it in one hand and throttle it up and down.  I still have to press every function button to remember what they do on my Zephyr, not to mention that my locos all have more functions than buttons, so not everything can be done on the Zephyr.  The base Digitrax utility throttle has even fewer function buttons than the Zephyr, so I have to buy the $150 DT402 to get enough function buttons, but I'm teathered with that.  RailPro is wireless out of the box.

Let's talk cost, as Art also claims it is "way more expensive."  Absolutely false.  Let's compare apples to apples (all prices from Yankee Dabbler):

Digitrax Wireless setup (Super Chief, Duplex Radio) - $500, includes command station and 8 Amps power

NCE 5 Amp Radio Starter set - $405

RailPro RPK-1 Starter kit - $299, includes controller and power supply (amperage not noted, but states enough to run 15 typical locos)

So getting started is cheaper in RailPro, but likely what Art refers to as being more expensive is the decoder vs. module cost.  If you have no interest in sound and have lots of locos, then yes, RailPro will be more expensive in the end.  A non-sound loco module is $47 for RailPro compared to fleet decoders that are less than $20. That means if you have more than four locos to power, it will be cheaper to go to NCE, and 7-8 locos before you equal the system cost of the Super Chief Duplex radio with decoders.

However, if you are into sound, compare a sound equipped LM-2S module ($75) to a Tsunami decoder ($95) and we are even cheaper yet for RailPro.  Even if you equip 1 sound loco and 2 non-sound locos in consists, the cost difference is only $27 per consist more with RailPro, so you could do four of those consists before the total system price equalled the equivalent cost of the NCE system with decoders and 7 or 8 consists (that's 21-24 locos!) to equal the equivalent cost of the Digitrax system above with decoders.  Sorry, but the cost argument is just another red herring.

Note also, to be fair, if radio is not your thing, yes, the other DCC systems are cheaper.

Clarifications?

^{"I watched myself fumble and mess with an NCE DCC controller for 3 hours."}

If you don't mind me asking Bill, which model of NCE cab did you try out?

One of the main reasons our club chose the system back in the mid-90's was ease of use with their Pro-Cabs. As I've said to anyone that has toured our layout and asked if all our locos are powered ...the only *dummies* on our layout are us guys running the trains.  

A big part of NCE's Pro-Cab design was to be intuitive, which was a big selling feature for us.

I can teach anyone to acquire a loco in 10 seconds. Consisting takes 1 minute (most of that is just keying through 3-4 units to make a consist).  Even very occasional operators who pick up cabs for the first time in months (or years) take little time to figure things out again, usually all on their own.

^{"After 2 hours with the NCE, I still didn't know which button was the horn or bell without having to think about it. "}

Umm...

Now I know NCE's simpler (and cheaper) cabs that are designed to look more like basic DC-throttles are not as easy to use. And I don't doubt you find RailPro much easier to use than whatever NCE cab you used. But even so, I think you may be exaggerating the experience.

Choosing whatever system serves your needs (current and future)

Personally, if anyone wants to use Rail Pro, I would fully support anyone making that choice. 

For me the reason why I refrain from acquiring a Railpro system is the fact it is proprietary.  that is it does not conform the NMRA-DCC standards.  I know there are many among you who pooh-poo on the NMRA standards.  That's fine.  But the one thing about them is because there is a standard, if one manufacturer goes out of business for whatever reason, the decoders can be used and supported by other systems. 

What happens if Rail Pro goes defunct.  Once the remaining supply of decoders runs out, you can no longer expand the number of loco's on your system?

Ken L.

...

Looks like a big remote control...

fumble and mess with an NCE DCC controller for 3 hours

Then something was wrong with it. It takes about 5 minutes to figure out how to use one, and every guy you meet on the street corner can help you if you don't get it.There's good reasons these things have been around and used for so long so don't dismiss them because you got hold of a bad one.........DaveB

I guess I'm stupid.

What I meant was that I had to keep looking at it. Everytime. I was not instinctively finding the buttons without looking for them. Given a few more experiences with the NCE Procab, I'm sure it would become second nature.

My experience is also coloured by problems with the first NCE throttle - which had dying batteries, and kept needing to be reinitialized, along with a few other quirks because of track problems.

I do know that I like the big knob over the little thumb wheel for precise control.

There is no denying the simplicity of the railpro in the hands of an complete noob. I'm not saying DCC is Bad. Just that I am very impressed with the simplicity of operation RailPro.

own and use both

I own and use both a NCE Pro Cab R system and the RailPro system.  Both systems have their strengths and weakness.  As far as operating simplicity, RailPro is the winner.  The big knob on the controller is the best I have used.  I run the railpro controller with one hand with an occasional tap with my second.  Consisting is also way easier with railpro.  The three big disadvantages (for me) in order are precedence are no JMRI support, limited sounds (no Alco's for example), and being a single source.

John Handlogten

I own and use both a NCE Pro Cab R system and the RailPro system

  Does the Railpro system use normal DCC power managers for blocks or do you have to buy proprietary components?  If you already had NCE why did you decide to buy another system?  I've found no reason to spend more to replace my Digitrax system since it still works fine ...DaveB

No Alco's - They have one now...

RP now has an alco.

New Sound Files: Alco 539T, Dynamic Breaks, and Horn Prime 920!

Here is the current RailPro Sound listing:

Alco 539T
Bell Howard
Coupler Clank
Diesel Bell
Diesel Engine
Diesel Horn
Dynamic Break
EMD 567
EMD 645 Roots Blower
EMD 645 Turbo
EMD 645-20
EMD 710
GE 7FDL-16
Gevo
GTLE Turbine
Horn Leslie 3 Chime
Horn Leslie A-200
Horn Leslie S-2M
Horn Nathan 3 Chime
Horn Prime 920
Pop Off
Steam Bell
Steam Engine
Steam Whistle
Whistle 800 Class

And more coming

Tim has also said they plan to add more Alco sounds this year as well.