Main thing we're losing with hobby shops

The main thing I think we're losing with hobby shops closing is a place to go for newbies, or a place to stumble upon for the general public.

Once you've been in the hobby for a while and kind of know the ropes, I don't see that the LHS does a lot for you that you can't get off the internet.

that you can't get off the internet.

  I can get most of the stuff I need from the internet but what I miss about the local shops is going down and chatting with the owners and the guys who dropped in. Much like we now do here but in person with the chance to check out the new items and maybe find something interesting in the used box......DaveB

I LOVED my LHS in Buford, GA!

I lived about 30 minutes from Trainmaster Models in Buford,Ga and they were invaluable when I was a "newbee".  They could accurately answer such questions as "What other rolling stock might have been seen on the L&N in the 1960's?" After I had been in the hobby for a number of years I still continued to purchase much of my modeling stuff from them.  Not only do they offer great expertise, but they also have great prices and a very friendly staff.....and they are right across (about 100 feet) from the NS mainline!  They have a couple of running layouts and a layout that they are building where anyone can come and help - which is a great learning experience and fun to boot!  BTW, they do a great internet business also!

I'm not sure if Joe will allow this, so Joe please remove the link below if it against your policy.

For a virtual tour click below, or if the link has been removed then go to their website.

http://www.trainmastermodels.com/category-s/230.htm

Good hobby shops are out

Good hobby shops are out there....but none of them are of the "chain" variety. One local LHS near me stocks every Microscale decal available, and every Detail Associates, Details West, Cal scale and Cannon part available from the manufacturer. That is a huge investment for a mom and pop to lay out. Considering Microscale sheets are up to $9 a pop retail, multiply that by the hundreds of sheets in their lineup, and you have a lot of money sitting there and not turning over very often. 

I would close the store too.

haha, you probably wouldn't have any customers so you'd been closed long ago. Folks want friendly shop owners not the grinch :> )   In those days we bought everything local cause the internet didn't exist. We'd stop by if we needed something or if we didn't we'd still stop by, coffee was always on and model trains spoken....DaveB

One local LHS near me stocks every Microscale decal available

Give em some love and let us know who they are? Folks like that need to be rewarded......DaveB

It must be a brutal business

I don't know, but I look at my LHS ( Central Hobbies in Vancouver, who are excellent by the way, and do mail order), and I think this must be an increasingly hard business to be in. 

Retailers make money by turning over inventory.  An item sitting on the shelf is losing money every day it sits there (Don't get that?  Suppose you had to borrow money to invest in the inventory - then you are paying interest on the inventory.  Same goes if you paid cash that you could have invested in something paying a return).

Now, look at what has happened in the hobby business over the past 30 years.  Not only has the cost of individual items gone up from a few dollars for an Athearn blue box to tens of dollars for most cars, but the specificity of that item has gone up too.  The end of the Athearn blue box said "40 foot box car," not "PS-1" or "AAR 10'6 IH" or whatever. 

As you've learned about the difference between a PS-1 and an AAR box car, you are coming in to search for items with the same specificity.  In order to satisfy a walk-in like you, they have to stock both items (in your preferred road).  Assuming a markup of 100% (because it's easy: I have no idea how much the markup is), the inventory required to satisfy you 30 years ago was about $2.  Today, the inventory to satisfy you is worth about $35 (using Intermountain pricing). 

Then, there's the space issue.  The space requirement for today's inventory is actually more than double that of 30 years ago because the packaging to keep today's models secure is that much fluffier.

It is indeed lamentable that your LHS would not deal with Microscale, and I can only assume the reason is that they don't get enough demand for it to maintain an account. 

However, the next time you whinge about the lack of availability of anything at the LHS, turn around and look at all the stuff that is available!  Have a little heart for these guys who are actually supporting the hobby in a very real way, and buy from them whenever you can.

..

The old retail model relied on limited availability of information and resources such that it was difficult for the single person to find the companies they wanted to buy products form and it was difficult for the manufacturers to sell to anyone due to their own overhead.

Now anybody can find anything they want on the internet.  If you want o know what cars ran on the ATSF in 1974, there are so many resources now that the single point source [who is only taken on his word by the confidence by which he speaks] is antiquated.

If I want a $5.00 sheet of decals, that's all I want.  But I've had to adjust just like all of you to the internet model, and guess what: I'll order that $20.00 minimum without qualms because I'll be sure to find four more sheets that I like as I keep looking online.

The place I deal with mostly

The place I deal with mostly has a large inventory and turns it over fairly frequently. Some things are likely slow turn over items but one needs a certain amount of them as well. The order enough stock that ordering decals is not an issue as are most things. The only issue is when the manufacturer will have it in stock. They discount everything and base profits on volume. The staff is knowledgeable and friendly. They also have consignment shelves as well. These folks have invested enough that they have become the go-to place in the area for most model railroaders.

They cover most scales and some narrow gage and have things from rolling stock to scenery , tools, paints, books etc. Scratch building supplies and lots of structures both kit and open the box types are available. Detail parts are also well stocked and displayed.

It is unusual to want something that is available that they do not have but when that happens one just fills out an order card and waits for the manufacturer or jobber to ship it.

I continue to shop at Discount Model Trains in Addison, Texas because of the fair pricing and great service they provide. It also has the benefit of allowing me to see something before I buy it and if it does not meet my expectations I do not buy it, much better than on line dealing.

I am not against the online folks but think there is a place for both in our hobby.

Rob in Texas 

The last time....

Not enough business in parts and paints

Hobby shops near me are dropping rr paints and parts.  With RTR and most kits already decorated, there isn't much demand for paints and decals.  Even Floquil is gone.  Military paints are another story - apparently painting figures and other stuff is a big part of the military hobby.

I rely on train shows and internet dealers for paints and other parts - they get enough business to make it worthwhile.

Paul

I'll order that $20.00 minimum without qualms

" because I'll be sure to find four more sheets that I like as I keep looking online."

 and if you don't you can always buy enough of something to meet the minimum then sell the excess on ebay.  Someone with the right printing equipment should start a decal printing service like shapeways where one could browse thru the offerings or upload designs and get the decals in the mail a few days later....DaveB

Death of a hobby shop...

The internet. Period.

When top quality manufacturers decided they no longer needed the middlemen, then writing was on the wall.

Horizon bought Athearn and pulled the line out of every other distributor, forcing the mom and pops to deal with 2 distributors that had high annual order requirements. And then Exactrail (i think it was them) dumped their distributors in favor of direct only sales. hmmm.

Couple this with the internet only shops who began offering items at about a 20% discount - which is half of the standard cut that a hobby shop owner would make if his prices were full MSRP - and it's very hard to compete in an LHS.

1. Less access to the product people want? Result - sales go down.
2. Needing to compete with internet based shops that sell for less than MSRP and make their money on volume? Result - either income or sales go down.
3. Cost of living goes up, Cost of labor goes up? Result - Income goes down and stores close.

It's not that I think the internet is bad - believe me, when started Promotex Online, which was my business until I sold the website back to Promotex, I found out right away, you can make a lot of money online with very little investment, stock, or overhead, especially if you can make arrangements for a solid supply line from your suppliers.

I knew it wouldn't be long before manufacturers smelled the money and started dumping the middle men - and what happened? Most of the Model Railroad Distributors died in the mid 2000's. This just put more pressure on the LHS's and now they are almost gone too.

I've worked in a hobby shop and I've worked on the manufacturing side, and I know know the numbers. A manufacturer can make far more money, selling 1/2 the quantity of items directly, than it ever could selling through traditional retail channels.

Dropping the ball

When I lived close to a hobby shop I supported them how I could.  I moved away but still wanted to support them, so I decided I would order all my detailing parts/paints/decals through them.  However, orders took nearly a month to be filled, and when they finally arrived half of the parts were not what I ordered or even close to the original stock number.  They were kind enough to allow returns and such for un-ordered parts, but with the extremely long turn-around time it just wasn't worth it.  All told it was a decent amount of money that ended up being spent on wrong items.

I wanted to support my (not-so-close-anymore) LHS, but I felt like my hobby money shouldn't be wasted on unwanted parts.  So I turned to Yankee Dabbler (MRH supporter), TJ Model Trains (Ebay), and MG Decals and have never had an incorrect item since.  That and my order arrives within 4-5 days normally.  So with service like that from internet vendors, I can't really justify going back to supporting a LHS that has a difficult time getting my orders right.  

-Kevin

Whoa there

You make a lot of assumptions here, most of them WRONG.  My initial intention was to order 2 sets of that decal sheet.  If the store had said something about a minimum order of 20$, then I would have said, then go to 3 sets and we are over $20.  I might have gone up to 5 sets, since these are basic letters/numbers that I *WILL* use again.

Well, I did get the part number, but the first reason I don’t order thru such sites is the lack of security.  If you ever got your credit card hacked…  Further, I want to support my local hobby store.  I special ordered some trees from him before.  I walked in and got some track and other stuff off the shelf.  I do spend money trying to help support, but if he does not wish to even carry a line I need to get something done the way I want, then I am FORCED to go elsewhere for that.

NO, I was willing to spend the extra to help support the hobby shop.  They decided they didn’t want to participate in the process.  Makes me wonder if that store is going to survive, especially after changing owners last year.

Why don’t you climb down off that soapbox and tell us why you are so mad at this thread?

$20 minimum

I think it should be noted that if the vendor has a rigid $20 minimum for orders from individuals and that same minimum applied to retailers, the retailer's minimum order is not 3 $9 sets, it's 4 sets because the retailer gets a discount. (usually 40%)

LHS's and more

I just bought a 3 pack of CA glues from my favorite LHS. I paid about $5.00 more than going to Hobby Lobby. But  feel $5.00 is better in his hand than mine right now. He's struggling to keep the doors open and A little here and there might help. My second best LHS is the Hobby Town store. Not a big assortment of RR stuff but boy does he carry a well stocked paint dept. All in one pace and easy to shop. Lastly comes HL. They do carry a few things the other two don't, but you see one HL you've seen them all. SHOP LOCAL FIRST.

My 2 cents worth!

DaveB- The hobby shop I was

DaveB- The hobby shop I was talking about is called ChooChooNuts. This is their only web presence at the moment: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Choochoonuts/478682482219711

I am spoiled

For me shopping online is the

For me shopping online is the only way I can get what I want. I enjoy it having 5 pages comparing  products, shipping etc. Sure we have hobby shops here in Auckland(pop 1.4mil) but that is like  2-3 tops. But they are  into 90% R/C stuff.  and a pinch of Hornby products

If a hobby shop doesn't have a well thought out e-com website then they should be left to die.

Sounds harsh but its the way of the times. Business that adapt, change,meet the new aspect of how people purchase will still be around  ones that don't, well then.... As I always remember my first customer that I called on, we were talking about margins  stockturns, return on investment etc. And at the end of it he said "its not too hard to open a shop, but its easier to have it close down.

Just some observations

Where I am the closet to a Hobby Shop is Michaels. A 30 minute drive. So I shop, rather use to shop in Ft Lauderdale at Warrick's. Ron a Chicago Boy was tops in trains specifically HO. And tops in Kadee couplers. Trains are out except for a few feet of shelving. The rest of 10,000 sq.ft. is Air Planes, Whirly Birds and Air Soft.

Now go to Miami to Ready To Roll and I could spend hours just looking...anything and everything on site, except American Flyer. According to RTR the NE USA is host to American Flyer.

The hobby shop I was talking about.

  All right, now folks around there can go check out those nutz :> ) . ..DaveB

Cedit Cards

One cost factor that comes up with almost every purchase is the debit or credit card fee charged to the shop. That depends on how much buisness is run past that card issuer. One owner told me it was upwards of 12%. Want to make a shop owner happy use cash.

Jack

Credit Card Fees

Anyone who is paying more than 4% shouldn't be in business.

Paypal's Virtual terminal is 3.1% at it's highest (plus $0.3 per transaction and $30 per month)

And the Paypal smartphone swipe option is between 2.7% and 3.5% with NO monthly fee.

If you're paying your card processor more than that, you need to shop around.

I used to pay 1.8% to with my credit union with a rented terminal ($50 monthly fee) .