Single wire

I've also seen single wire for catenary. It would be mostly used in a secondary line where high speed isn't an issue. Perhaps a Google search would be helpful.

I have an interest in catenary wire and electric locomotives and have several models but no layout yet.

Bernd

Bernd, Thanks for the

Bernd,

Thanks for the input. Google, as you suggested, was helpful. Turns out the Sacramento Northern as well as the Chicago, South Shore and South Bend used single wire. SN used it for slower areas like in Yuba City. Still researching CSS&SB usage but I think I'm on to something. Evidently one of the big advantages to cat was the need for fewer poles. With the larger relative wire sizes our models require, being stiffer as a result, it sounds like single wire would be both prototypically and practically ok.

Lou

You're Welcome Lou

Now that you mention those roads I do remember that's where I saw it. That's the problem with to many railroad interests, you forget half the time where you saw something.

I'd like to eventually put up some cat when I get that far on the layout. I was thinking the simple cat that Bob Hegge used on his Crooked Mountain line. He wrote several construction articles for Model Railroader back in the 70's I believe. I always loved his simple catenary he used for his O scale railroad.

Looks like we'll need to build our own. I was thinking of using phosphor bronze wire of about .010" thickness.

Here's a few electric locomotives. One is a brass import, you'll never guess which one, and one's a scratc-bash made from an Athearn Alco B unit with a modified frame and scratch built porches.

A possibility. Using an Athearn SD9 shell.

And two Alco PA front ends glued together to form a double cab electric. None are completed. What you see in the pictures are the way they are as of today.

Also have two Great Northern Y-1's. Don't have any pictures on those yet. A Penn Line GG1, plus I picked up an old AHM GG1 at a train show this past weekend.

Nice to see somebody else interested in electric locomotives.

Bernd

Bernd, As Spock would say,

Bernd,

As Spock would say, "Fascinating"! Love the porches, all they need are BBQ's (electric of course). Your SD9 reminds me of a Swiss "Krocodile" type loco. There are some handsome and rugged looking locos from NYC(Correction, this just in.....not NYC, but PRR DD-1, cool pics in Wiki) including one with massive electric motors driving the wheels through main and side rods. The early motors were too huge to hang on the axles so that was their way around the problem. One thing driving me to electrics are that the prototype used small radii turns and a wild variety of equipment. There are some interesting things being done in O scale, but you don't see much in HO. As far as that goes, you don't see much in Traction at all. Pretty esoteric stuff compared to the normal "steam" roads.

One of the things that piqued my interest in overhead was a two part series of articles in Model Builder in early 1938. One described construction of a scale pantograph and the other was on constructing catenary. Of course back then it was in "standard" gauge rather than HO but it is, as they say, "scaleable".

As a side note, I've been "lurking" for a while before joining and I have to say your stuff in particular has always caught my attention. I really enjoyed your magnetic drive series. As a machinist I fantasize about making some stuff for myself, but at the end of a long day I can't wait to get out of the shop. Oh well, you know what they say about the cobblers son having holes in his shoes......

Thanks again for the feedback, keep on keepin' on.

Lou

Pans & catenary

Lou:

As an old traction modeler & operator at the Western Ry. Museum, I can tell you that there was no hard & fast rule as to pans & catenary overhead. The main reason for a catenary was its STIFFNESS so it would be more rigid when trains ran at high speed. It would also stay up if the wire broke.The Key System "Bridge Units" in Oakland used pantographs throughout the city & shared the wire with streetcars using trolley poles. I've had a couple traction layouts & I did find you had to have the wire was pretty much centered right above the rails or the pan would slide off the wire; trolley poles are a little more forgiving for the wire being off-center. Pans usually make better contact with the wire but make sure they have good upward tension & that all your hangers & frogs are smooth or they will snag & maybe tear the pan apart. Have fun!         Bob

Fascinating indeed!

I've always had a thing for electric locos with pantographs. I am considering converting my 'high line' switchback on my copper mining layout to overhead wire, with small electric locos similar to GE units that served on narrow gauge copper mining roads in Sonora, Mexico. I have several beautiful Marklin HO pantographs I purchased on ebay, waiting for this project.

Bernd, very creative interpretations! Gotta love that big 'Little Joe'! 

had to have the wire was pretty much centered

Yeah , on sharp curves it takes a few pull offs and some playing around to get it centered. I used pantographs on my O scale layout with trolley wire and they were ok but it was a pain to work on the track or switch cars under the wire so I went back to diesel for the next layout. If I ever build another electric railroad it will be O scale either the DL&W Brooklyn carfloat terminal or a little section of the visalia electric SP subsidary and they both use pans......DaveB

Juice Jacks

@Verne,

Yes I do. I've wanted one ever since I saw them in the RR magazines. Finally snagged this one on E-bay. That one and these have inspired the interpretations of my models.

Here's a project on the very back burner of the to-do-list.

The chassis is a Kato 2 axle frame, the pants are from Kato. Both are N scale. Eventually this will be an HOn30 box cab for my lime stone quarry.

@Lou,

In the October 1973 Model Railroader Bob Hegge wrote an article on hanging catenary wire. I'll be using his technique when I get around to doing catenary. He also did an article, don't have the article handy, on building a pantograph, although in O scale. But as you said scalable down to HO.

I've been thinking of a way to Americanize the Swiss Crocodile. Never knew the trucks swiveled on those things. Another prototype that had nice electrics was the Virginian Railway.

I think one of the reasons electrics aren't as popular here is the fact of hanging catenary. It's one of those scratch building projects that doesn't give instant train gratification. 

Bernd

Bernd, Found a site last

Bernd,

Found a site last night ( http://www.tee-usa.com) that features Sommerfeldt pans and pre made cat sections. All German stuff, looks well made and evidently they've been doing it for 50 years or so. Lots and lots of pans, all Euro but would serve as "close enough". Their pre made catenary is all designed to be assembled like track sections.  Hollywood Foundry has pantographs (IIRC) but I don't think they have wire.

Bob, thanks for your comments. I think my wife and I rode with you weekend before last at the WRM. One of the things there that really impressed me were the big switching locos from Kennicott Copper I think. Monster size for a switcher it seemed, very blocky looking with trucks that looked like they were made from heavy plate. They were in the "sealed" barn, the new one. (Forgot the number, #3?) Wanted to spend some more time there checking them out but the tour was rather short. The museum is only about 45 min. away from me here in Sonoma, so we go once in a while just for the relaxing trolley ride.

Over on the MR Forums, Chuck (TomikawaTT) had some interesting comments about Japanese electrics. In general, there seems to be a quiet background of interest in electrics, but the overhead is what holds most enthusiasts back. I suppose working on all the "little fiddley bits" (as our Brit cousins say) could be a sort of Zen exercise once you get the hang of it. For certain, if you're going to model overhead you can't be a RTR type unless you use the above mentioned Sommerfeldt gear. I doubt even then it's Plug and Play.

Great to read all these posts, I'd like to dream about this stuff all day, but it's "Hi Ho, Hi Ho, it's off to work I go".

Lou

Electrics

I am trying to post a photo of the catenary on my RR. They will not go from the upload to the posting. Any clues what to do?

Thanks

As far as that goes, you don't see much in Traction at all.

Lou,

Have you found http://www.eastpenn.org?

Lots info and links.

Uploading Pictures

One of two ways of doing it Rick. One is to up-load to the forums gallery. The other is from a place that you store your pictures on. I host my own picture through my website.

If you've up loaded to the forums server click on the icon that says "image" when you mouse over. Then click "Browse Server". Click on the picture you want to upload. Then click "OK" in the "Image Properties" page.

If you have your pictures stored off site use the same procedure. Open the place your pictures is at. Copy the URL and then paste it into the "Images Property" page's URL blank and click "OK".

Need more help just ask. Some of us have gotten pretty good a uploading pictures.

Bernd

Industrial electrics

My main prototype (Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting) used single wire and pantographs for the entire life of their electric railway operations (~1928 to 1999).  Any second hand units they purchased that originally had trolley poles were quickly converted to pantographs.  I think the main reason for this was their less than stellar trackage.  Less likelyhood of losing contact with the wire if the pantograph just slides back and forth on the wire instead of the trolley pole coming off the wire. 

Several other other mining operations that used electrics that I am familiar with also used the pantograph and single wire combination.   

More Electrics

Here's one of my favorite videos of electrics. Never knew electrics with side rods would sound like a steamer coming down hill with the side rods clanking.

And an HO model boxcab electric.

There's lots more on electrics on the net.

Bernd

Rod driven Electrics!

Bernd,

thanks for sharing this video! I love these rod driven electrics!

Thanks Bernhard

I saw it once and forgot to put it in my favorites. It's taken a bit of time finding it again. That's why I like the Swiss Crocodile so much. It's that side rod motion and clanking on a quiet electric driven machine that I like.

Bernd

Bernd: When I click on the

Bernd:

When I click on the Image Properties Page, the image vanishes and some foreign language appears.

When I click on "image", I search for the picture I want, I get it, then I hit upload. That's pretty much where it ends.

Rick

Uploading a picture

Rick, go here http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/help/how-to-post-an-image This should be able to help better than I can explain it. You have to upload a picture to the MRH server first before you can post it in a thread. Give it a try. If you still need helps let me know.

Bernd

the image vanishes and some foreign language appears.

 Ignore that foreign looking stuff.  Type your text then start at the green square above that is image properties, click the upload tab, browse your photos and pick the one to upload, once it uploads type in 800 or smaller in the height or width box( depending on which has the highest number, neither box can end up larger than 800)  look at the preview to make sure it's the right photo then hit submit or post or whatever it says at the end. If you've already uploaded the photo some time in the past it will just rename it and continue BTW.... .DaveB

Thanks for sharing, really

Thanks for sharing, really liked the Virginian video. Sure would like to know more about the video, is there more to it and can one purchase a copy. Photography was excellent. The rod clank was really something. In thinking about it imagine how much power the trains were putting out 2 2-10-10-2 pushers and a 2-8-8-2 on the front all blasting along at 7 miles per hour and yet a three unit set with a pusher of electrics beat them up the hill. Clarks gap was the ruling grade on the line and there were also the tunnels to contend with, imagine how hard it was to breath in there on the third steam locomotive.

Rob in Texas

Catchword 2-10-10-2

Rob, you gives wit "2-10-10-2" a catchword.

My next rebuilding project, VGN class AE - rebuilding frame and running gear, new motors and gear mechanism.
Sorry, Bernd - no electrics.

No Electrics!

Bernhard,

That's ok. I like steamers just as much as electrics. I don't think Lou will mind. That 2-10-10-2 sure is a monster.

@ Rob

I don't know. I can't seem to find any others. I'll have to take a closer look and see. It is amazing that the electrics out did the steamers.

Bernd

Catenary

 It worked!! Thanks guys, very much appreciated.

This photo is on my HO NYNH&H layout.

Bernhard, What's this

Bernhard,

What's this blasphemy! Steam locomotives.......why I oughta......Just kidding, if it runs on two rails it's all good. Actually I've seen a steam/electric loco. There's a site, http://www.douglas-self.com, that features a section on "Unusual Steam Locomotives" and the Swiss built a steamer run on electricity during WW2. Seems they had a surplus of electricity  (all those mountain streams) but no coal and needed more locomotive power than the existing electrics could muster. Some clever chap thought up the idea of using the overhead to power heaters under a boiler and "Presto" instant solution. Granted it sounds Rube Goldbergish, but it worked.

Dr.JoIS, thanks for the East-Penn link. I had heard of them, but hadn't visited their site.

All in all, I've been greatly impressed with the input to this thread and the helpful comments given. I'm going to build a micro in the next few months to try out some of the techniques I've seen and the products available. I will probably scratch build a lot of the stuff since money's tight right now (all directed at other black holes!) but as I progress I'll try and post pics of what has been done.

Lou