That's a fine question!

I think there are definitely right and wrong ways to model a railroad.

But they all come down to rule #1 - "It's MY railroad!"

Unless you're arguing with the board of directors of a club what really matters is whether you like your railroad or not. If you do, then you must be modeling the right way. If you don't then you're doing it wrong.

If you want a wood burning Shay pulling Hi-Cube box cars then why not?  (I actually have a train like that for someone to run if they count to darned many rivits on the BC&SJ - so far nobody has had to run it).

Now I'm absolutely certain that there will be great differences of opinion on what is right for one's self.

I'm rather keen on sticking to a 1952 time frame - but sometimes there are things that are out of era for me that I like enough to just say the heck with it (like a NP box car in a 1969 paint scheme or those nice looking Broadway Limited Cab Forward articulated locos). I accept the fact that these aren't 'correct' and it doesn't bother me. Neither does running my railroad with Track Warrants - a form of train control that didn't come into major usage until nearly 30 years after 1952. Oh well. See rule #1.

I also like a 'sincere' layout track plan (where the track passes through each scene once). But that doesn't mean a twice around plan is a 'bad' design. Only a design that I'm not interested in building for myself. It may be just what the doctor ordered for someone (or ones) else.

So in summary Irv, if you're happy with what you're doing, you shouldn't have to worry about pleasing anyone you don't feel like pleasing.

Best regards,

Charlie

Less-than-Perfect is OK

For me, as long as my railroad runs with little or no derailments, and I can photograph believable-lookng scenes for the timeframe I'm modeling, I'll be contented.  The trouble begins when I start thinking I'm in the Model Railroad Olympics, and compare my rolling stock, trackwork, scenery, benchwork or whatever to somebody else's. The fact is, I don't have a bottomless checking account [unlike some parents of my daughters' friends, LOL].  Sure I would love to have a finished 80-by-40-foot basement, with FasTracks handlaid turnouts and Micro-Engineering track, and LokSound decoders in all my locomotives.  The fact is I simply can't afford them at present, so I'll just focus on enjoying what I do have.  But hey - I have the rest of my life to acquire those things so there's no rush!              

Less-than-Perfect is OK

I like your thinking. I just wish that more people in this hobby thought like that.

I don't mind suggestions from visitors. What I do mind is being told that what I am doing is wrong in no uncertain terms. Sure if there is a better way or what I am doing isn't prototypical I am willing to listen but lots of times we all have to make compromises and that extends to affordability and time as well.

Right now I am in the process of painting my train room. I have already received some criticism about why it's taking so long. I know that criticism is correct but I don't live to work these days. I get tired and I still need to move stuff around so that adds to job. Finally, I need to clean up after a painting session. All of that takes time and I get tired more easily than I used to.

Once the painting is done, there is some elctrical work that needs to get done and then there is laying indoor/outdoor carpet in the train room. The electrical work and carpeting are two things I can't do. That's going to require that I hire folks to do it and that is going to require some dollars that I may not have when I am ready for it. But I'll live with it knowing what is down the line.

Irv

Irv, I agree with everyone

Irv,

I agree with everyone else on this. The right way to build a model railroad is your way. Build it to do what you want it to to. I have a very good friend in Dallas and he interested his neighbor in modelrailroading and even helped to build a layout. He runs his trains as fast as they will go and has lots of lights and working things on the layout (old lifelike or tyco crossing gates etc.) I say, ignore the criticism and forge ahead doing it your way.

There areNo RulesTo

There are

No Rules

To Model.

It is

Your own

Model Railroad.

Go forth

Have fun

The End.

There is no right way

But there are a few wrong ways..

I think the creative choices are all "whatever you want", but I think everyone wants trains that can make it around the layout without derailing and locomotives that can go through a turnout without stalling. I will never criticize someone for mixing eras or making a loop-loop.. but if those mixed era locomotives can't make it around the loop then maybe some constructive suggestions..

Chris

Excellent point, Chris!

So true - there is no "right way" to model railroad, but there are certainly more than a few wrong ways!

And that's the heart of the question being asked, isn't it?

Help show me the wrong ways so I can avoid them - sort of like "show me where the mines are, so I don't step on them!" ...

So there's a good topic thread - wrong ways to do model railroading - it would be interesting to share the boo-boos, false starts, and just plain dumb mistakes!

Reminds me of the LD SIG's motto - Make only new mistakes.

The idea is to share learnings so that everyone doesn't have to reinvent the wheel in their layout design efforts. Seems to me it could be expanded to include the entire pursuit of the hobby.

Why limit making only new mistakes to just layout design?

Mechanical no-nos

In no particular order here are some things that will cause poor running of trains.

1. Don't expect the $25 train set locos and cars to work well.

2. Do use track that is in gauge (and keep the wheels of your rolling stock in gauge also).

3. Be careful with rail joiners - make sure the rails are "in" them instead of sitting on top of them.

4. Use enough electical feeder wires so that you're not depending on electricity traveling long distances (> 10') through the rails. A good practice is to run some relatively heavy wires under the rails and bring up another set of feeder wires every 6' or so. Wire sizes can vary from 10ga (for long runs in O scale where the current demands of the locos are higher) to 16 ga (I'd consider this a working minimum).

5. If you're building a larger layout separate it into electrical blocks. Being able to shut off part of the layout will make finding short circuits much easier.

6. You don't need to build a layout like it would need to support a bull-dozer crawling over the top of it. But using 1/4" plywood probably won't give enough support for the tracks. I use 3/4" plywood for joists and roadbed in flat spots (with masonite spline out in the 'countryside') but this is probably overkill for most small railroads - but I don't know too many people whom would wring the hands and cry "Oh woe, I built my layout too strong...".

7. NEVER using the wood in the cheap bin at Home Depot for benchwork. Unless of course you're trying to build a roller coaster. You'll be amazed at how far away from straight that stuff will warp (and split and sometimes ooze sap). Pay a bit more and get decent wood. You don't however need to shop at a furniture/woodworking store (unless you're name is Bill Gates and can afford it).  If you have trouble getting wood to stay straight once installed you might consider plywood - not the douglas fir plywood that warps but the Home Depot/Lowes hard wood plywood. It's still not furniture grade but its willing to stay flat (for the most part anyway).

8. When track planning be on the look out for S curves. Track Planning For Realistic Operation has a very good discussion of S-curves and the problems they cause.

9. Use appropriate minimum radius curves for the equipment you like. If you like those nice Walthers full length HO passenger cars count on needing 25" minimum radii. 4-axle diesels and 40' freight cars (HO)  will be quite happy with 18" curves and #4 turnouts. When in doubt ask the Hobby Shop employee you're talking to at the counter before buying. Or ask your buddies. Or ask here. "Hey, will such-and-such a car work on my layout with xxx" curves and #xx turnouts?"  (but do get a copy of Track Planning For Realistic Operation and read about turnouts, minimum radii, S-curves, and various pieces of equipment).

10. Learning about easements and how to aproximate them is probably a good idea - especially if you're trying to herd long equipment around tight radii. Track Planning For Realistic Operation discusses those too.

11. If you're going to have grades becareful not to have the transition from being on "the hill" to being on "the flat" be too sudden. Especially going up hill. People observing a steam engine crest a  hill without enough vertical easement may  be heard to cry out "Thar she breaches!" (this was something the lookouts on an old time whaling ship would yell from the crow's nest when they saw a whale coming up out of the water before falling back.) The effect is sort of like Shamu at Sea World except that (hopefully) bystanders at your railroad won't get wet. Make the transistion from hill to flat gradual and you won't have this problem.

12. If you thought the problem in #11 sounded like fun try putting a curve, or better yet a turnout right at the top of track coming off a hill without enough transition (easement). The front wheels of the loco (especially steam engines with their long rigid wheelbase) will lift off the track causing derailments.

Ok guys. I know I'm missing stuff here. What other design/engineer mistakes lead to derailments?

Regards,

Charlie

Mechanical No-Nos

I agree with everything you said but I think you need to consider that not everyonemodels in HO. I don't. I model in N-Scale and anything using 11" curves is pushing it unless you only run 4 axle diesels and 50 foot freight cars. While alot of N-Scale equipment will work on 11" curves and may even be able to negotiate 9.75" as well, try to avoid them as much as possible because nothing says "toy train" like tight curves.

Irv

Oops. I thought I made it

Oops. I thought I made it clear my radii were HO and other radii apply in other scales.

Might I suggest that "Toy Train" is a bit of a perjorative and while my personal preferences are lined up with yours on tight radii (except for industrial swtiching districts with tight quarters and even tighter curves) that there are some out there for whom the tight radii curves are fine. If it's fine with them (and their trains run well enough to not be a headache) then I guess they've built a successful model railroad.

Best regards,

Charlie

Practice makes perfect

I think this is an area where building a small practice layout pays huge dividends. Sometimes a derailment is worth a thousand words.

I think everything Charlie said is spot on to my current experience with my little layout. Using L-girder benchwork, my layout is somewhat less picky about lumber quality although I do like to let it acclimate to my basement before I use it. I use dimensional 1x2 and 1x3 lumber for my N layout. I am using 1/2" plywood for roadbed because my joists are on 12" centers but my next layout will use 3/4" layout because I hope to go to 16" joists. This will facilitate fitting my driver between them.. The 1/2" is fine for this layout but I have read of people reporting sag on plywood mounted on 16-24" joists with that size. The veteran recommendation seems to be 3/4". Its just a bit jarring to use plywood almost as thick as it is wide for my N scale track..

The trackwork gotchas I found that I would add to Charlie's list are

1) Watch out for Kinks. Even though I use easements on every curve I still find cases where the track will kink. What I am doing now that I didnt do when I started is soldering the connections between rail pieces then cutting my electrical gap later where there is good webbing support to minimize the kinks. This is exaggerated by my use of code 55 Peco track which is VERY springy. Good for making nice easements.. tough on holding a curved shape. I was using plastic rail joiners which look terrible, create kinks, and also caused some bump problems..

2) Watch out for bumps. In the course of building my initial track work there are places where little bumps appeared. This could be because the tie I fit in didnt quite sit right or there was a slight twist in my "assembled on the workbench" turnout groups. I also had some issues where my pre-wired under-track feeders didnt line up in the holes quite as well as I would have hoped which put tension on the rail and cause a bump or kink.

3) Make sure turnout points are sharp and sit flat on the rail. I had some rail picking issues before I went through and cleaned those up.

I got these issues worked out to the point where I can switch a turn without any issues except once in a great while having a "way to light by NMRA standards" unloaded flat car ride up in a few spots. If this was my final layout there is a spot I would pull up and redo, but since it is three turnouts.. works well enough.. and this is a temp layout.. I am going to let it ride. Not uncoincidentally it was the first section I put down.

Chris

Even the trackwork need not be perfect

If the modeler is modeling a bombed out, war torn region, the track need not be perfect...infact, perfect track would be a no-no.

Many layouts are probably just static diaoramas for most of their lives anyway.

So no, there is No Right OR Wrong way to model.

You could also get a

You could also get a railbender from Fastracks and pre-bend all your curves.

Railbender on flex track?

Would the rail bender work on flex track? If that is so, then I may consider getting one. It looked like you had to feed an entire rail into it sans ties.

I am going to experiment with hand laid track on my current layout by replacing a siding I am not happy with using code 40 track.. so plan to order a few things from them sometime soon anyway.

Chris

Nope, railbender won't work on flex

Nope, a rail bender won't work on flex.

For flex, if you want to make sure you're bending your flex track to a consistent radius, get yourself some Robbonrail metal curve gauges. They fit down between the rails and they're available for HO, HOn3, and N.

Here's a link to what's available.

It's my way or the highway!

No, not really.  Just kidding.

The right way to model is in whatever way gives YOU the most satisfaction.  This may be different for everyone and that is probably a good thing.

The highway?

Oh.... you mean slot cars!

Charlie

My next railroad ...

Based on this thread I've decided my next layout will be a rails-to-trails layout.

Lots of fun scenery to build, and no operational headaches. No more shorts, and no more expensive locos jumping the track and taking the steepest grade on the layout (straight to the concrete floor ...).

Or how about this ... I know I get the best access if I increase the size of my aisles - and aisles are cheaper per square foot than layout physical plant.

Maybe what I need to do is maximize my aisle space and minimize the layout physical plant by becoming an armchair modeler!

Theres not much space

There's not much space on the arms of a chair. That's why most armchair modelers like Z scale!

Charlie

Just make sure you leave

Just make sure you leave plenty of aisle space bewtween your armchairs so layout tours can move smoothly through your living room.

I am interested in maybe

I am interested in maybe picking one of those up when I finalize my base radius for my next layout.. but the real issue i was having was just the springy peco track making it hard to avoid kinks in rail joints on the curve and to keep the ends even after being trimmed. Its the down side to being the code 55 rail that is really larger rail sunk deeping into the ties. On the bright side, it makes great natural easements.

Regards,

Chris

The railbender trick

The railbender is very easy if you are using Atlas lfex, one raill practically ejects itself from the strip as it is.

Bend that one rail, and you have it half done, which may be enough - and then the ends of the set rail.

Now I don't know how much of the rail needs to be in the bender at one - if just the head could be fed through the bender, then you cold leave the one solid rail in the tiestrips.  But I haven't got to experimenting!!

The Atlas Tie strips come off pretty easily.  I should kno whaving chopped up two three foot sections to make two 18" sections of code 100 bridge track with code 83guard rails.  The code 100 has the same bottom profie as the 83.

Armchair Railroading...

I like to put my feet up.  Are there any trackplans for the Lazy-Boy?

Maybe we need a book?  "Trackplanning for footrest operation"?

Turn on the vibrating massage to simulate an earthquake...

EMD's, not earthquakes

Actually, the vibrating massage can simulate the rumble of a 2nd- or 3rd-generation EMD prime mover passing nearby.  That's something that can never be duplicated with 1"-diameter speakers...