The changes for the JL&T Layout...

Hi All,

As part of the growth of the JL&T and myself as a modeler I've had a chance to reflect on my original ideas for our layout, and learn a little from others in the hobby.

When I first started designing my layout 4 years ago I went through the process of what I wanted to model and what types industry I wanted on the layout.  Now this was tied into the eventual operations that I wanted to run too.  One of the givens that I put into the plan was an intermodal yard, not a small representation but a fairly big chunk and one that looked big.

I allowed nearly 10' (3m) of main top deck bench space to achieve this, it wasn't the full depth 27.5" (700mm) but it took a fair proportion, had two sidings dedicated to the complex and would require a huge amount of styrene to complete the vast amount of concrete hard standing area.

As can be seen the yard was a major space, and it took up a huge proportion of the entire northern area of the layout top deck, it had 4 yard tracks (orange) two for 89' Trailer On Flat Car (TOFC)/ Well Cars & two track for auto racks.  I planned the operations and switching and laid the track.

This is current layout as it stands in full...

Now one thing about growing, not only in life, but in hobbies is that you always learn something new every day.  And recently I have...  And that new love is switching and narrow bench work, I'm not going to rip out the entire bench work and redo it only 12" wide throughout (although if I started again I would seriously consider it) but I am thinking about more switching!

Before Christmas a couple of N Scale guys found me through MRH and made contact as they are all within about an hour of our layout.  They came around and visited the JL&T, what a great bunch of guys, and a wealth of knowledge to share and help out.  As part of the guys visiting they all offered for me to come and visit their respective layouts.

The first one I visited was Brendan (not in the original group who visited the JL&T) but the JMRI, Signaling & Detection guru.  And man has he flown, I've had people say I have achieved a lot in four years, Brendan is laying track after 18 months.  And this after he built the shed that the layout is in, framed it internally, plastered it, and has all his wiring including signaling & detection installed.

The layout I have recently visited was Rod Warren's "Santa Fe Railway - Southern Division in N Scale.  And WOW...  Seriously most impressed, so many ideas, so many great things to look at and learn from!  So much I really want to do now.  But there is a "well we need to change a few things first" moment.

Since starting (and almost completing) the L&T Branch as mentioned above, I have grown to really love switching and appreciate how much action you can get into a narrow bench work section in around 10' (the rough length of the L&T Branch) some of my small ops session have lasted 3 hours by myself.

And one thing has started to bug me since I started to think a differently about the switching side of operations, and that is the massive amount of room the intermodal yard takes up, and how little amount of switching can occur in it.  This has come about by running a few intermodal trains around, either being 89' TOFC or well cars, or combination.  And realising how big they are, how the lead in is around one corner of the layout and the end is still with you on the other side.

So after talking with Rod the other day, and learning that he himself had an intermodal train or two running, and that are just "big" and take up a lot of room, I needed to change.  I needed to alter the layout industry, the layout itself and so began the process.  When talking with Rod one idea that I mentioned was a Paper Mill...

One thing I like about them is they are "big", not as big as an intermodal yard (well they could be) but big enough to warrant a railroad service of a substantial size.  It could be if designed right, fit into half the space of the intermodal but generate double the amount of switching, and more operational potential.

So with that I have come up with the following.  This is version two (version one had everything in it) as the first version was done with a lot of ideas in my head so they all ended up on the plan.

So the concept...

I wanted more switching & a big industry to accomplish it with.

I needed to fix the bench work around the duck under, so that the lift out bridge wasn't directly over the entrance/exit for the L&T duck under area.  I also wanted to get rid of the return blob in the top right of the layout, and open this area a little more.

I wanted to add a few more industries to the top area of the layout to maximise space, and add more operational potential.

So with that I have come up with the plan above.  Its still not set in concrete and may get tweaked a little more.  The new Paper Mill is on the right and takes up the entrance and about a third of the top portion of the deck.  The industry next to that is a TTX Repair Facility - Think of it as a RIP Track on steroids, so anything that is detected or bad ordered will end up here for repairs.

I've narrowed the bench work down by 6" from 27" in this new area to allow for reach in to the industries towards the back, and for any switching/uncoupling that needs to occur.

So if you feel like it, please let me know what you think?  Offer ideas, be critical, suggest something I haven't even thought of yet...  I will be starting this shortly once the L&T section is completed so that I can continue on with adding scenery to the major portion of the layout.  So I thought I'd put out to the wider MRH audience to get some feedback...

Cheers,

Jas...

The only thing

I wonder about is all the buildings at the front of the layout in that new section.  I just fear they will get damaged over time with the reach in to uncouple cars that are being switched out, and how easy it will be depending on the size of the buildings, too.  Just a thought.

I think this will help you...

Mike Rose has a paper mill on his layout and has done some MRH articles..

http://issuu.com/mr-hobbyist/docs/mrh11-07-jul-2011-ol?viewMode=presentation&mode=embed 

You can also track progress of his layout on the photo site, PBase.  Here is a link to his whole collection: 

http://www.pbase.com/mikerose/mikes_layout_pix&page=125

Hope this helps.  Please keep posting - I'm amazed at how well you capture the area where I grew up!

-bill

Buildings in the front

Jas, I have always really liked your track plan. I'm not sure what it is that I really love about it, but I just do.

I have to agree with Dave, I'm concerned that your access will be poor in the paper mill with the buildings all out front.

Consider moving the main a little further towards the rear of the layout and placing the paper mill buildings between the main and the sidings. This will give you better access and help create the illusion that the mill is larger than the edge of the layout and give a feeling of greater depth too.

I like the way it opens up the corner of the room

  As for modeling intermodal yards one can find smaller one's that would be easier to model. Reno had a neat little yard in front of the Nugget Casino , I don't know if it's still there but was just a couple of tracks and a piggy packer and a concrete ramp that the operator parked his truck on. They also had a nice little loco service area next to the casino parking lot that got torn out for "improvements" years ago.....DaveB

Thanks for the comments so far...

Norfolk Southern has a small intermodal yard in central Jersey

Not sure if this URL will work for you - this is a satelite view of the yard in Secaucus, NJ.  

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Secaucus,+NJ/@40.7617781,-74.0705454,603m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c257b6ccc6e50f:0x5f5d048ca6540e4f

The intermodal yard is narrow but long.  You can shorten this if needed.

Thanks,

-bill

Mock up?

I figured you'd considered that already, Jas, but even doing a quick mock up might help you with the final design.  I know I've had it happen a couple times where I considered the problem, thought I addressed it, but when it came together it didn't quite work as I thought.  Overall, though, I really like the change.

Ramp down under

Jas,

where are you going to have a connection between the upper and lower decks? I just can't find them on the track plan now, but maybe I don't look hard enough to find the ramp down under  - that is, if there is going to be such a ramp.

BTW, your layout looks very good, so does your plans

In light of a few suggestions to...

Try and shift the buildings back along with the mainline and get all the switching up front near the fascia, I came up with this...

Let me know what you think...

Jas.

Let's play X's and O's !!

Wow, I like this a lot JAS!

A few thoughts:

1. what are the 2 tracks I have noted with O's for?

2. I think I would avoid the crossover behind the facility. Murphy is going to be operating that switch EVERY TIME.

3. I would suggest eliminating the short storage track. It looks over crowded. Better to have some pavement there for the staff condemned to use rubber wheels

It's changed again Bill...

Here is the explanation Bill, and others...

So since Bills post the plan changed again, I had a few ideas that would make things even better and give an added bonus of some extra storage space.

So I've attached the plan below and numbered each of the tracks to give a little explanation of how I want things to work for the plant operationally and for an ops session going to, and coming from the plant...

1.  Is the main yard lead from the main to the Paper Mill.  There is enough room to pull an entire train into the lead and cut out the require car/s.

2.  This is a RIP track & Caboose track all rolled into one, it will also serve as an overflow track during busy days.

3.  This is an unloading track for chlorine, acids & other chemicals of a nasty nature.  (it will have a dedicated bund).

4.  This is the track that will see chemical by-product shipped (via tank car) to other manufacturers that has been produced by the milling processes.

5.  These are the main box car storage tracks, two (2 - South) empty & one (1 - North) loaded ready for shipping.

6.  The yard run around, so that locals and plant switchers can still move around whilst the paper mill is being switched.  It will also serve as a storage track for outbound boxcars when the yard tracks are full during peak times.

7.  This is the main loading siding for the paper mill, all finished goods will be loaded into box cars from here.

8.  Overflow storage for wood chip hoppers that need to be unloaded in the rotary dumper.  Also can be used again for overflow storage of outbound loaded boxcars.

9.  Rotary Dumper lead & passing siding, this is the main lead & storage for wood chip hoppers that are to be unloaded into the rotary dumper.  It can when "empty" be used as a passing siding for traffic coming from the west (the mill has trackage rights over this section).

10.  Rotary Dumper siding.

So the plan of operation is:

All empty boxcars come in from the south/main yard lead.  They are left in the yard run around (6), and then spotted into the yard storage sidings (5 - two South Sidings).  

When ready to be loaded they are pulled and placed into main mill loading dock (7) and loaded, they are then placed back into the storage sidings (5 - North Siding) or placed back into the yard run around (6).  As an alternative and during peak times, loaded box cars can be spotted into the overflow track (8) when empty, or when they are to be added to a local consist that is arriving within a short time frame.

All wood chip hoppers are delivered via the north siding (9) they are either spotted in the siding up to the crossover near the paper mill, or are stored in the overflow (8).  Empties are stored in the same configuration as loaded wood chip hoppers.  Overflow can also be stored into the yard run around (6) and be picked up when the next local drops off empty box cars.

Liquid chemicals such as Chlorine, Acids, Solvents are all unloaded via the small chemical siding (3), as it has a dedicated bund area for spillage or leaks.

By products from the milling process are loaded into tank cars from the eastern end of the southern most yard storage track (5) next to the storage tanks.

There will be two switchers and/or a lease locomotive working the mill.  It will haves it own fueling rack, that will also be rail served for filling of diesel tanks.

Hopefully this will make things a little easier to explain, its always difficult to look at a track plan and try and make "your" mind up as to how the designer is thinking.  When things like the overall operation of the plant will work, how thinks are to be received, shipped, stored, spotted, and how they will all work from an ops session perspective too.

Let me know what you think, and please feel free to offer any suggestions or other ideas.

Jas...

Nice!

I really like it Jas. And thanks for explaining the proposed operation.

I'm still concerned about the 3 turnouts located behind the facility. Looks like a maintenece nightmare waiting to happen.

Unless of course, the buildings are going to be removable?

I have faith in PECO turnouts Bill...

They all will be PECO Code 83, which I have currently on the layout and they are all fine after four years of being down.  They will be switched remotely via tortoise and a Panel on the fascia.

And if needed I always have my buildings designed & built so that can be removed "easily" from the layout.  Not ideal but needed to add to the layout operationally overall.  The crossover wont be used that much hopefully anyhow...

Glad you liked it, I'm itching now to get started on it!  

Jas...

The crossover wont be used that much hopefully anyhow

What's up with the orange track that goes to the car repair facility, Why does it come off the main so far from home and cross those other tracks instead of just coming off the main near the plant? ....DaveB 

The orange one...

Is actually the lead to the TTX Repair Facility, so to facilitate a full length train with a bad order/detected piece of rolling stock entering the siding I needed it to come straight off the main (not through the Paper Mill track) to give the entire siding the room to clear a train from the main.  

The Light yellow track from the east has no way of getting to the repair facility (the slips are single only) so a train will cut out the bad rolling stock (on the orange track) and the repair facility switcher will spot it back into the facility.  Also the light yellow track east of the slip/crossover is Paper Mill track that they have trackage rights over.

Hope that helps Dave?  

Paper mill

One HO club layout I operate on has a large paper mill building about 2'x3' that has no roof. Accessible by crawling under the layout one can come up through the inside of the paper mill to access the many tracks on both sides. 4 of the 7 spurs are more or less perpendicular to the fascia, so it is nice to have access back in there in case you need to couple, uncouple or rerail cars that far from the aisleway edge (9 feet from the wall). John Colley,Sonoma, CA

a large paper mill building about 2'x3' that has no roof.

That's interesting, I was considering the same solution when trying to design an O scale version of the Harlem Transfer. Do you have a removable roof that can be set in place when access is not needed.....DaveB

Version 3 and just about there...

Well folks there have been quite a few variations made over the last few days, lots of help from fellow modelers from on MRH & here in Australia.  And this is the latest Version, number 3.

I usually can tell I'm satisfied with a plan when I can sit and look over it for at least two days and not change anything about it.  And I'm at that point now, so when the L&T Branch is finished it will be onto this new section of the layout to commence the alterations to the bench work.

Here is Version 3 - And at this point the final one...

I've attached below a explanation of how the Paper Mill complex will work and the track use...

1. Is the yard lead from the main to the the paper mill yard, it will be used to mainly bring in empty box cars, tank cars and for departing loaded rolling stock out to the east and back into the "rest of the world" (staging). 
 

2. Is the chemical unloading siding, Ive consolidated all the tanks required into one bunded area.  This will hold one tank car at a time (great for switching). 
 

3. The main facility yard, north track for empty box cars for loading.  south tracks for loaded box cars & tanks cars (with by-product) ready for outbounds. 
 

4. Run around track, as the name states, also can be used in peak time for short term storage. 
 

5. Paper Mill loading track, will be the main loading point for finished paper & other goods from within the paper mill building.  Track extends out the back and will have a crane on it for loading heavy machinery onto trucks & flat cars. 

6. Pulpwood Unloading Track, has the Walthers log unloader over it.  Pulpwood logs unloaded and stacked in open areas and then transported by front end loader to the debarking & chipping building.  This area is tight, but with some selective compression can be made to look prototypical.  The good part of this now is that it can be fed from the east (8) and from the west via the light yellow Passing Siding. 
 

7. Storage track for overflow gondolas, bulkhead flats or pulpwood flats. 

8. Pulpwood Unloading lead from the eastern main. 
 

9. Loading track for chemicals via tank cars that are the by-products of the milling process and recovery boiler.  Can also be overflow storage for Pulpwood flats when empty.

Thanks to Brendan Dennis, Rod Warren, Alan Bailey, Kevin Klettke and Bill B, Dave, Dave B for all your help and advice.  Fresh eyes always make for better solutions.

More updates as I start to make the physical changes.

Jas...

I'd say you are well sorted

Jason,

Looks like you have a well reasoned "Givens and Druthers" list as John Armstrong used to say.  And Version 3 seems to fit the bill, especially with the above explanation.

Question - what does this do to your rolling stock fleet and car forwarding scheme?

Dave, want to a buy...

A few 89' TOFC? Going cheap!

 Save them for the guys over in Australia, they'll appreciate not having to pay for postage from the USA for their cars....DaveB

Switcher Thoughts

I have been following this thread with some interest, as many of the changes you have made and your track geometry parallel the same I made while building my paper mill.  For my own mill, I opted to have a single switch engine, which is prototypical for the Ontario and Quebec mills that I modeled my own after.  I opted to shorten the track, similar to what you show in #2, and pave the area and add some other details.  The thought behind this was less clutter and trying to fit track into tight spaces, with the understanding that my switcher would likely be fueled at another location within the mill by a 3rd party vendor. Prototypical to what I have seen at mills and also allowed me to purchase a fuel truck which is seen every now and then on the layout.