CCT small version

    Here's the previous smaller plan  with 32 inch minimum radius curves, other than that I was pretty happy with it...DaveB 

Curve radii, Turnout position, and plan options...

Dear Dave,

Love where your heads at with this. I'm conflicted however about the 2 plans.

- The larger plan feels more "geometrically correct" in that the kickback to Sweetener Co and the curve off the main into the Lodi Industrial park are 90-deg curves. However, the location of the turnouts feeding the Sweetener spurs and the industry spur that X-overs the Sweetener lead feel very wrong. They are coming off the yard waaay too close to the Main <> yard curve.

- The smaller plan looses the pure 90-deg curve geometry, but has a far better "feel" in terms of where the Sweetener lead and X-over'd industry spur turnouts are located along the length of the yard.

In both cases, esp when compared against contemporary GoogleMaps images, it appears we've "lost" a few dbl-ended tracks at the mainline end of the Lodi yard.

Whether those tracks end up being critical to model RR ops is anyone's guess. However, in the tradition of the "IAIS twins" layouts, it's been found that "the prototype doesn't lay track without reason", and tracks which had been trimmed "with no obvious purpose" are now being re-instated once actual "to prototype" ops are being performed,... ("...Oh, so that's why that track is there..." ).

Of the 2, I'd personally opt for the "smaller version", as it's compromises (not 90-deg curves) can be mitigated with appropriate scenery treatment and viewer/operator position limiting. The "Larger" plan forces unprototypical switching moves, and presents a number of track-geometry arrangements which are IMHO only tenduously linked to the desirable prototype arrangements which make Lodi soo appealing in the first place...

As far as curve radii goes, if you can fit 32", IMHO you're already well-above "safe mechanical minimums" for the equipment CCT commonly sees in Lodi. The gains achieved when up-sizing from 22"> 32" are far more than are achieved when going from 32"> 42" (law of diminishing returns).

Indeed, if I were trying to design this, I'd be tempted to start with 24" as both "minimum" (3x 60' car length = reccomended minimum radii. Sweetener takes 40' 19,600 syrup cars and 55' covered hoppers, well within 24" radii range), and "common" radii (Maybe 30" for some "Big Cosmetic" curves out on the Main, but not within the confines of Lodi Industrial area).

Also, while you have staging "north of Lodi" (aka "Stockton", to the Right in both your plans and the proto images above), remember the well-covered "Stockton last Run" was 6th Dec 1998. As such, any layout depicting post-1998 can quite happily get away with "weed covered rails" (IE hidden close-the-loop continuous run link, if so desired), and no staging beyond Lodi environs.

SO, to recap:
- IMHO no need to go to 42" curves, 32" is more than enough, and within Lodi Industrial I think you could actually get away with smaller curves

- of the 2 plans, I prefer the "smaller" one as presented.

Nice drawings! (Prof only wishes he had comparable levels of artistic and draughtman talent)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS FWIW, here's a quick n dirty XtrkCAD rendition in HO, using PECO Code 83 #5 turnouts and 18" minimum radii. The track capacities are severely truncated, but the turnout arrangement matches the prototype. The indicated "modules" are norminally 4' 2" x 1' units. Sweetener Co has been reduced to a 3:2:2 protonook, but could be easily extended to proto track capacities with an extra module. The mainline heading back to Stockton could equally be extended with one or more modules, thus allowing modelling of the industries on the main south of Lodi. However, given the kind of space limitations which prompted such "start from minimum and grow as space allows" approach, everything south of Lodi, inc the immediate industries, the Port of Stockton, and even BNSF's Mormon yard interchange could be just as effectively represented by appropriate staging.

the location of the turnouts feeding the Sweetener spurs

 Hi Prof, Thanks for the input.  I can probably move the sweetner spur switch and the scissor crossover into Certainteed a bit farther to the top. Looking at it now there's a lot of space in the lot across the spur from the tank that could be used. Sliding the sweetner spur up closer to the staging curve backdrop will change the yard layout so maybe it will look better?  I was trying to reserve space for my workbench under the staging at the top of the drawing so that's why the E.Lodi ave. scene is pushed down toward the mainline. I also didn't want any turnouts on the lift out curve section so couldn't start the yard throat closer to the bottom which in turn moved the yard up in front of Certainteed instead of in front of the PG&E yard. I'll draw up some changes tomorrow and see if I can make it better, check back when you get a chance......DaveB

location of the turnouts feeding the Sweetener spurs

 Hi Prof,  I taped some new graph paper over the sweetener area and moved the tracks and curved connector a bit towards the west( towards the top of the drawing). I also added a little length to the west end of the spur ended yard tracks to better balance the arrangement and give room to run a street across just beyond the end of track bumpers. I'm still way short on east to west length but it will have to do . I only put 3 yard tracks in the double ended yard instead of 4 tracks but I think I'll have enough capacity to serve the industries. I'll probably have less cars coming and going than the real CCT does.  I'll develop the plan for the main line passing sidings along the bottom and right side after construction starts as those areas have plenty of room for what ever I might want to put there. I have some older era equipment that I want to run so that's why I'm putting in the oval connection with Sacramento staging. I'd like to start by building the staging yard with Peco code 100 turnouts( no motors or switch  stands  required)and the around the wall loop with cheaper code 100 flextrack  then come back and build modules or dominos for the various scenes at my leisure using code 83 track and turnouts.Initial pass around the walls would include a buss wire that the later modules could be connected to as they are built. Here's the latest study plan....DaveB

IAIS twins?

Neat plan Dave!  I'm excited to see what comes of this.  So are you tearing down your N scale layout then?

Lol...I don't think James would take kindly to being called my twin. 

While I think James was able to build the Grimes line copying the prototype's schematic exactly, I knew from the start I'd have to skinny down Bluffs Yard, removing 1 of the prototype's 7 yard tracks and 1 of 2 RIP tracks simply to keep the scene from being too deep to reach in.  So I understand Dave's feelings about condensing the Lodi scene. Sure, it'd be nice for both of us to be able to model things without those compromises, but at least in my case, they don't seem to have a huge impact on operations.  I keep my RIP demands low by adjusting the number of B/O cars that are to be routed there, and the yard capacity loss seems to be mostly absorbed by the fact that, like Dave's plan, I'm running fewer cars than the prototype.  Hopefully Dave finds the same to be true of his situation.

Where I recently added a missing track to Atlantic yard, that was more for esthetics than anything, and because I finally realized I could squeeze it in.  The three overgrown yard tracks are barely used on the prototype, and never had more than 2-3 cars in them that I saw.

Can you expand on that a bit Prof?  I guess I'm not seeing where those moves would be necessary, but it's early here. 

"are you tearing down your N scale layout then?"

  Hi Joe, Thanks for the input. No ,my N scale layout is in a spare bedroom in the house and the new layout will be in a room in my workshop. I'm on hold right now on the N layout till Atlas restocks their turnouts, I want to use some #7 code 55's in a few spots.  If I wanted to use N scale for the new layout it would be a piece of cake to fit it in or TT scale would work great too but I'd have a hard time getting equipment to run. I have some old HO stuff I'd like to get out and run and I've gotten some newer HO equipment and can add to the HO fleet easily as most of the needed equipment is plentiful in HO scale. I'll have to make some compromises to get the larger radius railfan loop I want but I'm hoping the scenery will look and operate somewhat like a compressed version of the prototype in certain spots.  Regards, DaveBranum

One more possibility

    Hey Prof,  By cutting the room corner I can move the sweetener spur up a bit and gain more distance from Lodi Junction. I'd hafta re-arrange some shelves in the corner where it cuts across but it would be possible. This would balance the yard better but would cut down on staging length a bit which I could probably recapture by moving the Sacramento end turnouts around the curve to the edge of their lift out. This version doesn't have the 90 degree angle off the yard track but it does seem to open up the room a bit on paper.I'll go out to the shop and check it out in full size tomorrow and see if it feels better....DaveB  

New locos

    Got an SW1500 today, Atheran and Peterson Supply did a great job on it, just needs the kadee glad  hand cut off then some weathering and a decoder to be layout ready. The GP7 is an Atlas Classic model, it runs very well but will need some detailing. Main problem looks like it will be grinding the footboards off the frame. One neat thing about the CCT is it didn't have many locos so I'll be eventually able to replicate almost the entire diesel roster...DaveB  

Those SW1500s...

Dear Dave,

Those CCT SW1500s, they get me every time...
(If only I could find a Petersen GP18 1790 RTR,
instead of having to hunt a P2K RI donor unit and confront my fears of painting and decalling...)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I know they generally didn't, but I love the idea that one pair of SWs handled Port of Stockton,
while the others did the run up to Lodi and back...
(any chance this could have occured when the 1790 was down for maintanence?)

Those CCT SW1400s, they get me every time..

Yeah, Athearn even put the little stop signs in the step wells. There's really nothing I want to add to it other than some light weathering. I'll run it as my staging loco I guess or fill in on the Lodi run when I feel like it.  Did Peterson make a CCT 1790 model? I'd rather get one painted too if possible. I could have gotten the GP 7 by Athearn but it only came painted for the Reading version. If they do a run of GP7 's  I'll get another one. So far the only GP18's I've seen are lifelike P2K and AHM toy train. Still looking at my workshop wall and deciding if I want to tunnel thru the corner or not :> ) ......DaveB

Dave

best to let those more talented

 Hi Dan,  I'll call you when I'm ready to paint my backdrops :> )  Where is that ST&E model? I like to check out shops that stock Cali shortline equipment.   I decided to go with the last plan that cuts thru the corner of the wall and am building the corner  recess now. Mowing the weeds has cut into my layout time this week, the recent rains  made everything grow....DaveB

Progress cutting corners

    After stopping to repair my bandsaw I got back to cutting the corner by recessing the staging tracks into the corner of the workshop space. 42 inch radius three track wide here. Still need to close the back up with a curved backdrop.....DaveB 

looking good, Dave!!!

looking good, Dave!!!

     Thanks, I'm working my way around the room installing backdrop, once I finish this staging curve I can go around again with some basic sky paint then I'll put up the benchwork shelves. Still working on the design in a few spots like at the CCT shops where I'd like to model a compressed version of the adjacent yard and team tracks. I got that curved recess sealed up and replaced the tool shelves on the other side of the wall so something got done this week end....DaveB

Solid!

Dave - interesting to see you working "in the wall" as it where. Very solid construction -

Probably an optical illusion but it looks like the staging tracks are much closer to the dividing wall (facing the camera) than in the plan ? Is it an option to ditch the wall/double doors and open everything up?

Rob
Cornhill & Atherton RR

Is it an option to ditch the wall/double doors?

 Hi Rob,  The staging lead/around the room loop connection will still run across the double doors. After putting the workshop wall back together I decided I can make a cantilevered turnback curve on the left end of the plan and gain some room to develop the CCT loco shed and team yard. This curved wall pocket will be a bit longer but there's nothing important on the workshop side of the wall to worry about, just my lumber storage nook which will still be fine with the curve in it. Here's a rough plan of the latest scheme.After framing the new wall recess I think I'll construct all the benchwork then finalize the track layout full size after I see how it all looks in the flesh. Since it's all one level I can just cover it with plywood and try out various track positions to maximize the views and fine tune  the industrial building locations. My drawing is getting kinda ragged from all the re-draws so I'll have to make a new one soon :> ) ....DaveB 

I need to pay more attention

Hi Dave - sorry, missed your updated plan which was in page 1 of the thread (just saw original on thread opener).

All is clear

Rob

ST&E switcher

Larger scale detail drawing for planning purposes

 My basic drawing is 1/2 inch = 1 foot but sometimes it helps to make a larger scale detail of more critical areas. The recess in the shop wall for the staging went so well I decided to make another for the turn back curve so I can better model the shops and the team tracks. I made a drawing with 1 inch = 1 foot scale so I could see how to fit the 42 inch track radius and the backdrops into the wall. Now I know which studs to cut and which to save( it's just a curtain wall put up to enclose the layout so I can remove any of the studs without hurting the structure). The larger plan gave me a chance to draw in preliminary benchwork and track alignment at the shop/team yard area too. I'll probably start building the track at the staging yard then build this shop area with a temporary mainline loop on around the room using Joe's build a bit at a time suggestion. The benchwork right here doesn't look like it will lend it's self to the modular save the section idea since it's such an odd shape but a lot of the other layout areas will be simple rectangles that can be built to move.....DaveB 

Turn back curve in the wall

Here's before shots of the layout side and the wood storage side of the wall. I removed the old backdrop and coved corners and marked out the cut lines( in blue chalk on the wood storage side.) first I need to move the plug and wiring that falls within the bump out area.....DaveB  

The beat goes on....swinging a 46 inch radius curve

  Spent a couple more hours today framing the turnback curve bay window and starting to layout the benchwork at that end.   Since it's curved I stacked up some odds and ends laying around the shop and made a radius point so I can swing the backdrop cur ve and blend it in to the existing backdrops on both side.....DaveB

Keep It Simple

I would suggest keeping the layout design simple and as close to the prototype as possible.  As was posted with the Google Maps captures, perhaps using the old Lodi Ave area with Certain Teed as the visible staging yard as either one leg along the wall or as a peninsula.  I think it works to your benefit that the CCT trackage makes a couple of "sharp" curves as it heads towards Stockton and that could be fit into a room corner.  I see three main industries, Certain Teed, Sweetener facility, and the big warehouses.  There are also a couple of wineries, but I don't think they ship by rail anymore.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with and seeing your layout construction.  

Dan R.

Closing up the wall

    Got the curved back drop up in the bump out behind the CCT loco shop.  Mainline will turn around in the wall space and head along the next wall toward Lodi junction. One photo is the front showing cars on 42 inch radius curve, other shot is back of bumpout in the wood storage area of my shop. I used shelf brackets to support the plywood curved benchwork so I can still store 4 by 8 sheets of plywood below the bumpout....DaveB