joef

Recently we've received complaints about all our "TrainMasters TV" ads. The complaint goes something like this:

"Enough with all the TrainMasters ads already! I signed up for MRH, not this TrainMasters thing. I have absolutely no interest in TrainMasters, and I'm getting very tired of all the ads, please stop."

We also get some similar complaints about our eBook ads.
 

ITS THE PRICE OF FREE

MRH has always been about making a magazine free to modelers but funding it with ads. The more ads, the better funded MRH becomes and the more we can do to cultivate and produce great articles and supplemental media. MRH has NEVER been free to produce - and much of the monthly revenue from ads goes to PAY other modelers like yourselves for their contributions.

All along, the idea has been we will build MRH's audience by being free,  but we will sell ads to pay for it. If we're successful, that means the ads will increase over time.

All along, we've also planned to offer products that DO NOT HAVE ADS. Without ads, those additional products could not be free. We would do everything we could to make these products you pay for affordable, but by not being free we know not everyone could afford them, even if we price them to be economical.
 

ADS ALONE DON'T CUT IT

It's also important for you to know that the ads in MRH and our emails do not always generate enough revenue to keep MRH in the black every month. If you want your free magazine to continue, we NEED the revenue from the eBooks and TrainMasters in order to keep MRH in the black. For the first time in 5 years of operation, the extra revenue from the eBooks and TrainMasters is putting MRH solidly in the black.

If for nothing else, thank those who do like the eBooks and TrainMasters for keeping MRH free because they are also underwriting MRH, just like the advertisers are. Some have told us they like MRH well enough they would gladly pay us for it. Well if you really mean that, then sign up for TrainMasters or buy some of the eBooks, because you are helping underwrite MRH when you do that, as well as providing funds for ever better eBook titles and killer TMTV content.

And for those who are tired of the ads, remember it's the price of free. Those ads generate a lot of revenue each month for the advertisers, and the money they pay us for those ads is helping pay for your free magazine.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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George J

TANSTAAFL

TANSTAAFL.

-George

"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers, ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."

Milwaukee Road : Cascade Summit- Modeling the Milwaukee Road in the 1970s from Cle Elum WA to Snoqualmie Summit at Hyak WA.

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ctxmf74

complaints about all our "TrainMasters TV" ads

 Some people just don't know when they've got it good :> )  Don't worry about the complainers, keep up the good work Joe and crew......DaveB

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David Husman dave1905

What TMTV ads?

I guess I hadn't even noticed that many TMTV ads.  

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

Blog index:  Dave Husman Blog Index

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joef

TANSTAAFL

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, for those who are wondering what TANSTAAFL stands for ...

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Nelsonb111563

Naysayers will be Naysayers!

I wouldn't put too much thought in this Joe!  Anybody who complains about something free in the first place isn't going to PAY for something in the second place. They're just not the cliental that you want to do business with!  I'll gladly pay for something if I feel that it will bring good value, and if I feel that I could better spend my money elsewhere, then that's what I do.  

Nelson Beaudry,  Principle/CEO

Kennebec, Penobscot and Northern RR Co.

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Ken Biles Greyhart

The Price of Free...

You know, I've never had a problem with making a buck on my hobby, or any other legal means. I am also willing to help others do so, if they have something useful. So far I haven't been interested in the eBooks, but I am a charter subscriber to TrainMasters.TV.

I believe that the complaints mostly come from people who don't understand what it is you are doing (even though you have explained it many times), and worry that their free magazine is going away. Others it seems, just don't want to see you succeed.

I notice that I have never once heard anyone complain about ads from Digitrax, Yankee Dabbler, Bowser or Litchfield Station (random advertisers I picked out of the advertiser index). No one seems to have any problem with model railroad companies paying you for advertising, so that you can offer the magazine for free. So why do they have such a problem with you putting ads for your other projects in the magazine?

The only answer I can come up with, is because they are ads for your projects. I have no doubt that if I or anyone else were paying you for the ad space in the magazine, no one would say a word about it. Same ads, same products, but because it's not the Publisher, it's ok. Everything I have heard from these complainers, is that either the ads shouldn't be in the magazine, or that the videos (read information) should be free.

It's as if suddenly people decided that anyone who finds a way to make a little money from their hobby, is bad, and money is inherently evil. Sure, it's ok for Walthers to charge for their products, but you shouldn't. So when was the hobby of model railroading taken over by hippies? There's no such thing as free, and they should have learned that in the fall of 1969, when they had to pay for their summer of free love. (I say theirs, because I was 4 years old in 1969)

I think that some complainers are afraid that if TrainMasters.TV is successful, you will suddenly decide that people are willing to pay for this, and you'll start charging for MRH. It will no longer be Forever Free. After all, it only makes sense that if people are willing to pay for it, they will be charged. Now I know and understand what a business model is. MRH is based on the business model that advertisers will support the costs of publishing a magazine that is free to subscribers. The business model doesn't change. The magazine might end publication, but it won't ever charge subscribers. It won't surprise me however, if someone does begin publishing a high quality online magazine, using some of the ideas MRH has proven out, and charges for subscriptions.

I think others, feel that because you are the publisher of MRH, and don't have to pay yourself for the ad space, that you are stuffing the magazine with ads for TrainMasters.TV. Because there are two or three ads in an issue, in high visibility spaces, I can see why people might think that, but looking at the advertiser index for the February issue, I see that Berrett Hill has two ads, Ring Engineering has two ads, Digitrax has a two page spread, as does NCE and Rapido. TrainMasters has two ads, both are full page, but that's nothing out of the ordinary.

Yes, you took some editorial space to talk about TrainMasters when it came out. That can be considered a bit unusual, since I don't usually see the magazine push new products from other companies that way, but you've done that once, and it's your magazine. I would have done the same exact thing if I were Publisher.

So what it really seems to come down to, is a matter of perception. Because you are the Publisher, some perceive that you are taking unfair advantage, and putting far more ads for TrainMasters in each issue than other advertisers get. That is untrue. Just do what I did, and look at the advertiser index. You will see there are no more ads than any other advertiser. Are the ads free to you, as Publisher? Probably, but that really doesn't make any difference, I'm not paying a higher price for the magazine.

What about the idea that you might make money off of the hobby? If you do, that's great! That is the free market system at work. The American Dream. Anyone with a good idea has the ability to turn it into a means of making money and supporting themselves. Capitalism is NOT a bad thing! I don't care what the current cultural attitude that everyone gets a ribbon for participating, says.

If you really have a problem with Joe (and I know it's only a problem with Joe, not any of the other staffers) making a living, or better, from an idea based out of his hobby of model railroading, you have several choices. You can not buy a subscription, or any other product from him. You can come up with your own idea to make money from model railroading, and then advertise it everywhere you can find. Or you can just leave the hobby altogether, because it's obviously not what you want it to be.

I've known Joe online for many years. He's a nice guy, who is always willing to help out someone who wants it. I'm really sorry that he's had a target painted on his back because he dared to start some things he thought might be useful to those of us who are, or want to be model railroaders. I have found however, that this is what happens to leaders in any community. Those who wish they were leaders, do everything they can to tear them down, for fear of being left behind. Joe's time is valuable, just as mine is, and just as yours is. I have no problem paying him for valuable content. If you don't find it valuable, don't pay for it.

I suspect however, the problem is you find it valuable, you just don't want to have to pay for it.

 

 Ken Biles

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joef

Pioneers

Yes, Ken, one of my favorite sayings ...

Quote:

"You can always spot the pioneers - they're the ones with all the arrows in their backs."

So yes, I know this comes with the territory.

I will still try to explain our rationale to people. if they want to listen.

As for the magazine ever being not free - won't happen. We will shut down the business before we would ever do that.

Having products that are ad-supported and free to modelers is part of our core business strategy, as are products without ads that are not free. We will continue to do both.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Mycroft

And for those of you

who think we are getting rich doing things like writing the articles?  I had a large 2 part article in the magazine last year.  If you look at what I got paid vs my salary at my regular job, the article paid 1.6% of my total income last year.  I'm not in this for the money, nor are most of the other authors, because if we were, we would starve.  Don't get me wrong, the money paid for a very nice DCC controller to use at my club layout......

James Eager

City of Miami, Panama Limited, and Illinois Central - Mainline of Mid-America

Plant City MRR Club, Home to the Mineral Valley Railroad

NMRA, author, photographer, speaker, scouter (ask about Railroading Merit Badge)

 

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Bernd

Concept of Free

Interesting thread and comments made. I personally don't car about the ads being in the magazine after all I've only bought from one advertiser in the amount of time I've been hear. Monster Model Works, got two orders from me and those are very nice kits.

But the concept of the magazine being free is a bit misleading in my opinion. Every time you buy something from one of the advertisers a portion of that sale goes to pay for the ad, doesn't it? So it's more free to me since I don't purchase as much than to the person who buys larger quantities of products from the advertisers in the magazine. It's collective based. Everybody doesn't put in equal amounts of effort. Somebody like me gets it for almost free while others put in more and everybody gets equal amount of enjoyment out of it.

It's kind of like the person who owns an electric car. He feels all nice and fuzzy that he's helping the environment. Yet he doesn't seem to under stand that it took great amounts of carbon based energy to manufacture and transport that 100% nonpolluting car to him. Then he needs to plug it in. Does he care where the power comes from. No. He has no idea that if he followed the electric lines back he may wind up at a coal fired plant. Even if wound up at a wind turbine farm, those wind turbines took carbon energy to produce and transport.

 So yes, there is no free lunch.

Bernd

New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds - NCSWIC

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dick green

Ads Schmads!!

The things some people will choose to complain about never seem to amaze me. Do these same people write to the tv networks. When a comercial comes on? I doubt it. I think they do it here because people will reply thus validating thier rant. I for one am not bothered by ads I understand the need If I could afford trainmasters I would get It. Right now I cant. but they allow me to read a great magazine each month. When winter is over "made it to 8 degrees today" I'll be able to work again.  I'll will probably subscribe I'd also love Some of Joe and Mike c's videos.

There now I feel better LOL.

Dick

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rickwade

100% support MRH, Joe

What I'm about to say might sound like I'm slapping myself on my own back, but here goes:

I believe in MRH - specifically Joe Fugate and his love for the hobby and it's people.  You could tell from the very start that it wasn't about profit, but sharing his passion.  I've bought a number of items from MRH in support of the venture even though I wasn't too sure that I would "get my money's worth".  Why?  Because I want to see MRH, Joe, and his staff succeed.  By the way, in every case I've gotten MORE than my money's worth!

I applaud Joe for this thread and explaining the reasoning behind the ads / and ad free offerings.  Keep up the great work, Joe & staff!

 

Rick

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The Richlawn Railroad Website - Featuring the L&N in HO  / MRH Blog  / MRM #123

Mt. 22: 37- 40

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Michael Tondee

You can't have your cake and eat it to....

It's simple people, if you want MRH to continue to remain the wonderful FREE publication and resource it is then shut your whiny little pie holes about the ads for TMTV and the E -books.... Joe is too nice to put it that way but I'm not and a large majority of you don't like me anyway...LOL

Michael

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

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LKandO

...

My grampa used to say "They'd complain even if you hung'em with a brand new rope."

Alan

All the details:  http://www.LKOrailroad.com        Just the highlights:  MRH blog

When I was a kid... no wait, I still do that. HO, 28x32, double deck, 1969, RailPro
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Ken Biles Greyhart

Let Them Eat Cake!

Quote:

...shut your whiny little pie holes about the ads for TMTV and the E -books....

I was trying to be diplomatic, but that pretty well sums up my thought.

 

 

 Ken Biles

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kleaverjr

For once...

....I totally agree with Michael!

And besides, I don't understand what there is to complain about.  I mean if there was a pop up ad every time I came on the forum to subscribe to Trainmasters or to buy an E-Book, THEN I could MAYBE understand the complaints, but as Joe has made clear that is NOT the model he is using for MRH and his umbrella company M-T-V. 

And the fact Joe has to take the time to read these complaining emails and then need to start such a thread takes away time Joe needs in order to edit and publish this great E-zine.  So I would say to the complainers in the most respectful way, SHUT UP unless you have something of real substance to complain about!

Ken L.

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Larry of Z'ville

My feeling is

If they care enough to advertise in an online magazine like this, their probably in it for the long term.  I find myself buying a fair amount of train parts and other items each month.  The first place I look is the advertisers associated with this site and magazine.  They don't always have what I need, but several times they have and that was where I bought it.  In every case I thanked them for supporting MRH. 

Keep up the good work,

Larry

 

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com

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Selector

I think you have explained

I think you have explained something nicely that bears repeating now and then.  It's like fire drills...everyone hates them, but they are necessary.  The complainers don't understand that they signed up for a free magazine by making themselves available to advertising that keeps it free...to them.  Others do make purchases from the advertisers.  That, in turn, pays for the advertising that keeps it free....to them.

-Crandell

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Milt Spanton mspanton

Rick always says what I was

Rick always says what I was going to say, only a few posts earlier!  I think the format and delivery is fantastic, and praise Joe's (et al) effort every chance I get.

And here I thought Tanstaafl was a station on the Nederlandse Spoorwegen... the next one after Schin Op Geul.

- Milt
The Duluth MISSABE and Iron Range Railway in the 50's - 1:87

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dkaustin

Find something else to complain about!

Complaining about the ads in MRH is just a waste of your time as you can see you are in the minority.  This ain't the government so you don't have a minority leg to stand on.  So, you need another topic to complain about.

If you really want to complain about something, complain about all the great videos that get posted on here to be spoiled by some knucklehead who has to lean into the video so their big head ends up in the recording!  I don't know why it bites me so much, but I watch many excellent videos posted by members of MRH.  Each video has great footage until the giant head leans into view and spoils it.  It seems to happen in every video posted to the forum. I swear they do it on purpose.  You see it in the grin and glint of their eyes.

Den

n1910(1).jpg 

     Dennis Austin located in NW Louisiana


 

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Fast Tracks

It's not free.

I'm buying it for you through the ad's I pay for.  It's free to you, but it's being paid for.

Tim Warris

Fast Tracks.

Tim Warris

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UPWilly

Advertise all you want, Joe

I value the MRH product AND this forum immensely. I wish I could budget for the TMTV, but, alas, that has not yet happened. I did buy the Model Trains Video production of the Ten Mile Creek series and the first video of Mike Confalone - both good investments. I have bought from Fifer Hobby Supply - I wish my budget would allow more.

About the advertising expense being covered by the manufacturer's pricing - the added cost probably doesn't amount to much, if you knew how reasonable Joe's advertising prices were. MRH is as yet the best bargain in town.

TANSTAAFL - that is a real good one, has been one of my favorite phrases, but was not familiar with the acronym.

 

Bill D.

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N Scale (1:160), not N Gauge. DC (analog), Stapleton PWM Throttle.

Proto-freelance Southwest U.S. 2nd half 20th Century.

Keep on trackin'

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ctxmf74

until the giant head leans into view and spoils it.

there's no free lunch. The giants heads are paying for your chance to watch the free video. If you want giant head free you gotta build your own private layout and video it  :> ) ...DaveB

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Michael Tondee

The only problem with buying from MRH advertisers....

is that the company that has the very best price and selection is NOT an MRH advertiser.  I won't name them but I keep telling them they should advertise here.  I'm all for supporting MRH advertisers but unfortunately I have to take my limited hobby dollars into consideration and spend them where they go the farthest.

Michael

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

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Dave K skiloff

My guess

Is it all starts with one particular person making his wild and fervent accusations and going out of his way to let everyone know what a terrible thing TMTV is and MRH is soon to be a paid thing, too.  That individual then gets others wound up over his baseless accusations without them really know the facts, then these people add to the list of complaints.  My guess is few outside of this individual's contact list has any real issue with anything to do with MRH or TMTV.  It's really a shame that there are people in this hobby that go out of their way with their antics to damage the hobby they say they love.  I used to check out that person's posts regularly, but I will not even read them any longer, nor watch their videos.  Some of the nonsense that has gone on since TMTV was announced has made me lose all respect for them.  Shame.

Dave
Playing around in HO and N scale since 1976

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