Freight traffic and revenue questions

Michael you are going to want to check out these guys

http://www.opsig.org/

Scroll down and you will find an idustery data base - kind of car, shipper, recever etc

Steve

Check out the Winchester Western in Virginia, West Virginia. Maryland and Pennsylvania. Their main function was and still is seasonal Apple and other Fresh fruit transport to the juice & canning companies also wheat and flower to the many mills along the Appalachian trail and Shenandoah Valley and North to Gettysburg and the Penn RR interchange.They make a number of Models of Cars and engines for them as well as structuers that are still on the market and sold by Walters. One such model is a Martinsburg Mill and a second is a Lumber Co. they also servis a number of Scrap Metal recycle companies and ship scrap metal North to steel mills

Pre 1950 they were 3ft narrow Gauge and around 1950 they switched to standard Gauge and they are still in Business today. They have a number of their own engines plus they lease 6 GP40s from the CSX. That are parked here in the small Yard at Winchester Virginia where I live every nite and I've considered Building a small version of the Short line myself as a diversion from My Narrow Gauge Rio Grande Southern. chech out the link at Rail pub they are one of the best old Model Railroad and real Railroad Magazine and Book stores on the net and you should be able to find some books on the Winchester Western.

http://www.Railpub.com

Good hunting Dan

Thanks for the reply and the link Steve...

Has their site helped you in researching your modeling interests?

What era do you model?  What scale?  What road?

Thanks for another reply Dan and for the link (don't think I have seen that site before).

Modeling the Winchester Western had crossed my mind before. I saw a RS3 by Athearn in WW paint online and that got me thinking. I have seen their trains running near Winchester from time to time. I have also seen some online videos of their trains running on YouTube.

I also had thought of using the South Branch Valley RR as an inspiration. Either as the SBVRR or even as the South Branch division of the old B&O (this would be more in line to the era I would like to model). As far as I have read, the SBVRR operates over the old B&O's trackage from Greenspring, through Romney, Moorefield, and into Petersburg WV. I've seen their trains running near Romney. The Potomac Eagle would be a cool train addition to model if the SBVRR was the theme. They use a lot of older motive power and passenger equipment on the Eagle from what I've seen.

And then there is the Western Maryland scenic RR...

Yep, there are a lot to choose from...so...getting back to my original question(s)...How do you go about finding the information you need in order to create specific load-in, load-out exchanges within your modeled industries once a prototype has been chosen to model? Especially if the chosen prototype is a fallen flag and there is a good chance these industries no longer exist along the right of way? (online, books, magazines, or a combination of all of these).

What has worked best for you?

Thanks again..

Looking forward to further discussions on this this topic...

Until later...

Well, the overall possibilities are endless, but it looks like you're basically starting in the right place; you've mentioned you've gone over books in the library about your chosen railroad(s).

A few things to try are the OP-SIG industry listings, which are obviously not completely comprehensive, but do give you an idea of some industries, where they're located and what they ship or received.

Another thing to do is check out what rail-served industries exist in your area today; what are they, what do they make and what sort of structures do they have and what sort of cars do they get. You might not be able to really tell exactly what's being shipped in or out, but it's a start.

Also, go back to the library and see if they have historical or older maps of your town, especially insurance maps. If you can see where the rails went, and what industries may have had spurs into them, you can determine what sort of industry it was and make an educated guess about what products and cars would have been shipped to or from that spur.

Also remember that an industry may only receive or only ship, or both. They may ship/receive only one commodity by rail and source or sell the rest locally (especially if it's a warehouse, distributor, transloader, less-than-carload pool shipper, etc) or ship and/or receive multiple different commodities.

And, depending on your era, things will change. For example, up to the 1960s, most grain was shipped in boxcars; with covered hoppers becoming much more common through the late 1960s and 1970s. 50+ years ago every little town would have had a local coal dealer (which might actually be a fuel dealer handling coal, heating oil, kerosene and even gasoline or diesel once cars and trucks were more common. I've seen examples of companies that were combination lumber/building supplies and coal/oil dealers. Old mills might have their own power house and receive a car or two of coal at a time.

Think about how your cars get to/from your industries to the rest of the world. Either your railroad is a small terminal or branch of a larger railway, connecting to a yard, mainline or other secondary line. We often use staging tracks (either hidden or visible) to represent the connection to the rest of the world. Think of the layout like a stage in a theatre, and the staging track(s) is your backstage/wings, where the train enters, does its work and departs. Or, if it's an isolated shortline terminal railroad, or private industrial tracks with their own switcher, you'd have an interchange with another railroad where your cars are exchanged. Some people like to refer to an interchange as "the generic industry, that accepts any sort of car", but I dislike this characterization, as it's gross oversimplification and does not really represent what the _purpose_ of the interchange really is.

Submitted by _michael on Sun, 10/25/2009 - 04:16.

Yep, there are a lot to choose from...so...getting back to my original question(s)...How do you go about finding the information you need in order to create specific load-in, load-out exchanges within your modeled industries once a prototype has been chosen to model?

Don't fall into a trap of thinking that there will necessarily be a load-in, load-out exchange at your industry. In particular a smaller industry will likely only be receiving inbound shipments, or only shipping outbound shipments. If it does both, it's likely the inbound and outbound will be very different from each other and probably not loaded into the same car, or even type of car.

Also, especially in such a small area, your industries are probably not shipping to each other, but to/from somewhere far afield. If you need to ship something down the street, it's easier and probably a heck of a lot more cost-effective to put it on a truck and run it down the road, rather than ordering a car from the railroad, waiting for it to be delivered empty (if they have one available right away), load it, wait until the next day for them to pick it up (and hopefully actually spot it at the receiver the same day). Of course, there are always possible exceptions; based on the size and/or weight of the load, it may not be cost-effective or even possible to load it onto a truck or trucks. eg., huge bridge girders, or 1000 tons of that could be shipped in 10-15 railroad cars in a single movement or 40-50 trucks. Time/speed will also likely be an issue as unless it's a regular, re-occuring large bulk shipment, it could take a few days to actually move it by rail those few short miles.

IMHO, it's easy to over-think this. You have a compact layout in mind for now, and it's great to be starting and not waiting around forever for a giant space.

The industries you choose to build on your layout will determine what loads are shipped and received. IMHO, that's the place to start, not with a theoretical discussion of all possible industries.

One of the most important things to grasp is the idea that there can be multiple "spots" on the same track. These may be different doors at a warehouse, loading spouts, unloading grates, etc., etc. This means that one physical track can include two, three, or more locations where cars can be placed.

Large industries can receive and ship many kinds of traffic. This small layout module (about 1'X4' in N scale) represents the operation at a large brewery, for example.

You can read more about this layout and an adjoining yard module here.

As others have mentioned, the Operations SIG is a great organization and its publication can provide many operating ideas. There is a $5 annual membership option that allows on-line access to new issues, the best value in model railroading for folks interested in operations.

As far as books, Tony Koester's Realistic Model Railroad Operation and John Armstrong's classic Track Planning for Realistic Operation (both published by Kalmbach) are excellent resources.

But again, I think that sometimes folks make this stage much more difficult for themselves than it needs to be. Once you decide on the locale, era, and concept for your layout, the industries that are most plausible to include should become clear. From that, it's straightforward to do some targeted research to determine what should be shipped and received.

Best of luck.
 

Operation
Submitted by cv_acr on Sun, 10/25/2009 - 11:36.

Load-in/Load-out
Submitted by cv_acr on Sun, 10/25/2009 - 11:49.

start with the basics
Submitted by Cuyama on Sun, 10/25/2009 - 12:24.

Chris, Byron...

The information and analysis of operations and industries you've provided here has been very usefull to me. It also got me to thinking about what I really had in mind to begin with. The bare essentials of what I would like to accomplish in the first place and, what it's going to take for me to finally get a somewhat credible and decent layout built and running.

Getting lost in all the industrial operational possibilities that could be modeled took me a little off track. Knowing what goes where and why has to come from experience and research. Very easy to overthink this and get stuck within the decision of trying to make too many decisions.

Okay...new perspective...just think about using some industry structues that could be found almost anywhere, I would personally enjoy building, would lend character and visual interest to the scene, and could be serviced by the rolling stock I already have on hand. 

I looked into the OpSig site and found there was some general information there. And like you said it wasn't a fully comprehensive guide. When I looked over their text as per state listings I was dissapointed to find very little information for the local areas near me. i.e there were no listings of any towns/citiy rail industries in my area even though I know there out there.

I have been thinking about looking into some prototype rail-served industry around here to see if any might fit into what I'm modeling.  I'll try to get back to the library one day and look into your suggestions of public records, etc. In the mean time I'll keep up on my reading in regards to railroading, layot construction, concepets and ideas. but most importantly...I really should get to the building supply store and start building...

By the way when I saw the brewery diagram I realized, hey, I've been to your website Byron. Ops fun for one...the San Jose Shelf Switcher...I need to go back there and look over your pages again.

Nice layout you have there Chris. Just scanned over it very briefly but looks like you guys know what you're doing. Got it added to my favorites as well.

Thanks again...

P.S. I there any way you could possibly provide me with any (general) suggestions in regards to late 50's early 60's railroading and modeling ideas for the Eastern Appalachians? (South Western MD. and North Eastern W. Va.)

Until later...

The best industry would be an interchange with another railroad.  You can exchange any type of freight car.

Hi Michael-

Nice to see a new member.  I think what you might be looking for is Shenware's Industry Manager software.  They sell a CC/WB program that is around $50 but they offer the OPSIG industry database for free on their website.  You can search this by era, load type, as well as the railroad which served the industry.  Here is their webiste:

http://www.shenware.com/

Best,

Rich