i don't know if this will help?

did you check the drive gear on the wheel sets?  the old proto 2000 ones use to crack and cause a click hope this helps.

Cracked Gears

If you're hearing the 'ol "thunka-thunka-thunka" sound from the trucks, then you probably have a cracked gear on one of the axles. The Protos have a reputation for them. Your can get Athearn replacement gears cheap and they're compatible. Remove the truck bottom cover, lift out the axle, pull the wheels out of the cracked gear. Get your replacement gear, reverse the process and put it all back together. Good as new.

Not Cracked gears

Guys the proto 1000 drives are completely different than the proto 2000 drives.  It is not the cracked gear issue, the gears are even different than the proto 2000, and is was the first thing I checked.  Thanks though.

Ryan M

P1K also

Ryan

For what it's worth, I've had to replace gears on some of my Proto 1000 F3's.

One direction, one truck

Dear Ryan,

The "one direction, one truck" info is going to be key here.

Reccomend:

- remove the shell
- get the loco moving under power in the direction that it does not click,
such that you can see by-eye the driveshaft turning
(pref no faster than 1/2 rpm at the motor/driveshaft,
you'll need a _good_slow_control_system_ to do this!)

- bring the loco to a stop
- change direction to the direction that does click
- and as you throttle-up to the afore-mentioned 1/2 rpm,
before the drive motion actually gets to the axles/wheels,
watch carefully for any sign of Fore/Aft movement in the drivetrain.
(The flywheels or Unis visibly moving towards one end of the loco,
ends of the Truck Worm shafts protuding/receeding thru the truck tower end bearing, etc)

What you're trying to work out is:
- if "in the nominated direction", there is any backlash or slop which is being "taken up" by the worms push/puling the driveshaft assembly fore-aft
- If there is such slop, the components which are being forced-together now have "bearing faces" which may be rough, have burrs, or may otherwise not be obvious points-of-contact.
(This includes:
- Flywheel face <> motor bearing or frame
- Uni <> cardan shaft <> uni compression
- Uni <> truck tower bearing/face
- Worm <> internal truck tower faces)

- once these "unexpected bearing faces" are identified in the truck that clicks,
check for burrs/flash/roughness there...
(and assuming you clear any such roughness, make sure you re-assemble the mech with adequate thrust washers to eliminate the excessive slop).

Debugging clicking and rough performance in any "worm based" mech has to take into account excessive slop, which the nature of the worm will oft translate into "push/pulling the entire driveshaft/motor-shaft assembly fore/aft depending on the "loco direction"/direction-of-rotation....

I hope this helps...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

As usual prof is right on

Shaft movement

Prof

You were right there is a lot of movement in the motor bearings / worm gears etc.  I am going to start with the worm gears and add some shims.  But the motor shafts moves even more.  I am going to try and pull it apart and add some shim washer in there also.

Larry,

The gears are all ok.  I checked these first.  They are not the same as the athearn ones used in the proto 2000, I wouldn't even no where to get replacements if I needed them though.........  I will take a picture of the drive and post it soon.  It is a one pc frame and weight but not the same as the rs2.

Thanks

Ryan

Looking at the diagram, one

Looking at the diagram, one other thing to check is the tab coming off the truck where one pickup wire is. Make sure as the truck turns the drive shaft isn't hitting this.   Joe

Tab

Joe

Thanks for the tip I will check when I get home from work.

Ryan

Motor magnet

So after eliminating the slop in the worm gears it still made the same noise.  I then took the motor apart to add some shims on the inside of the bearing faces.  The shims in the motor were pretty worn.  but when i got it separated i noticed that the magnets were loose.  So basically the magnets were jiggling around inside and rubbing on the motor core when it shifted to one side.  I glued the magnets back in with Loctite super glue for magnets(yes they make a version just for magnets), and now it runs nice and silent.  I ordered some NWSL wheels  for it and will put these in and then hopefully its good to go for the long haul.

Ryan

Well spotted...

Dear Ryan,

Well spotted! Must admit I'd never thought of the magnets coming adrift, or being an interference depending on motor-position...

Well played sir!

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I wonder if Kevin (K-Pack) is reading this thread?

Thanks

Prof,

Thanks for the guidance, it got me looking in the right place.  Its running good now, but not quite as silent as my Atlas loco I have, I don't think the trucks are as well made.  I think a break in run would be a good idea, but my layout is a shelf layout only with only about 16 feet of main line so it will take awhile.  I think will get one of those roller things you sit your loco on to break it in.   I have 3 of these proto units, 2 RS-10's and 1 RS-18, I am going to check them all now as they may all have the same problem.

Thanks again

Ryan

Braeking in locos on a P2P layout...

Dear Ryan,

Sounds awfully to me like you need a "shuttle" unit.
If on analog, a simple "dumb-timer reverser" and pair-of-diodes will do.

If DCC, take a look at the "Train Shuttle" unit by Tam Valley...

http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/trainshuttle.html

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS Disclaimer: I'm not involved with Tam Valley,
except as a voted-with-my-wallet fan of their products,
and occasionally-inspirational pain in Duncan's side...

Motor magnets and break in period.

Hi Ryan:

I would have suggested a thin film of silicone sealer as a adhesive, the advantage being some

sound dampening ability, but it would have to be a real thin coat so as not to eliminate the clearance

for the motor's rotor and magnets.

As for breaking in the engines, a cheaper alternative would be some inexpensive 18" radius

track temporarily laid down in a figure 8 on the floor in a corner and let them run, the advantage

to a figure 8 is equal wheel flange wear and increased contact point movement between the truck

and the bolster like on blue box Athearn's as well as the axle stub ends and electrical pick up bars

on Atlas and later Proto's.

Joe

Proto 1000 drive problems (a post script)

Ryan (& all),

Glad you found & fixed the problem.  There were quite a few informative suggestions posted, any one of which could have lead you to the problem.  These things can be a real challenge to find, for sure.  As a now retired former designer and locomotive project manager for the Proto locos (in the US), I'd like to add a post script comment for everyone's information.  The philosophy behind the Proto drives was that the quality of design and operation would be the same for both Proto 1000 and 2000, even if the gearing itself was different one model to another (ie: GPxx to SDxx to F3, etc.).  The cracked gear problem was only applicable to locos with 40" wheels, drive gear axle part #504408.  It was fixed in 2001, but of course a lot of models had been produced by then and are still "out there" that could be faulty.

Chuck F.

Atlas fits

As an FYI, I have a Proto 1000 RS18 which ran like crap.  I got fed up with constantly trying to adjust it so I looked around and found an Atlas RS11 chassis.  To my surprise the body fits without any modification.  I did have to cut down the fuel tank area to get the proto fuel tank to fit but it wasn't hard to do with a dremel.  

It's now silky smooth and quiet.  Nothing runs as good as an atlas!

Dave

Thanks Dave

Dave,

Thanks for letting me know.  Even though I have fixed it up it still runs like a proto unit and not like my atlas locos. I will start look for some rs11 drives and swap them out it will be worth it in the long run as they run so much better in my opinion.

Ryan

Proto 1K locos

I have a few Proto 1K locos that I really like for their very good weight and pulling power. But I have NOT run these locos extensively up until this time as I have not had a layout to do so.

1) DL109's.
I think Proto was the only manufacturer to produce this model engine in plastic? I really like the Santa
Fe model. I'm even kitbashing a B-unit to go with it. I plan on running these extensively on my new layout. I'm hoping I do not end up with these sloppy drive train issues.
 

2) C-Liner's
I also have a few of their C-liners,...again very nice weighty engines. I have a PRR one that I added the radio antennas to.
 

Just yesterday I discovered a B-unit of one of these C-liners in my inventory. It has excellent weight, and very accommodation access to its drive train,...something like this...
 

My initial thoughts were that this could be a good candidate for a chassis for my 'pusher/helper' I am looking into for my steam engines??      https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/improving-our-steam-engines-performance-12219656

Those Proto1000s are

Those Proto1000s are generally very heavy haulers in their own right. We've got a pair of the DL109s at the club and individually they will pull 20+ freight cars up a 5.3% grade, and this grade includes an S-curve and a 170 degree turnback, so it's probably the equivalent of about a 7%. One of the DL109s regularly holds down the assignment to pull the CMX/Centerline track cleaning train, which is the equivalent of a very heavy train due to all of the friction inherent in the track cleaning processes.

We also have four Proto1000 E8s, and again, individually they will pull a 12-car full size passenger train up the steepest grades. They end up running in pairs because we don't have that big a layout nor do we have that many diesel powered passenger trains, but we certainly don't need two powered units to do it.

Putting one of these in the auxiliary tender would be a little like putting an SD70ACe behind an old 2-8-0!

Cracked Gears

Proto 1K,  C-liner

Today I discovered I have at least 2 axles on one truck that have split gears. Will the Athearn gears work here?,..or are these axle sizes different from other Proto engines??

I would surely think they would have utilized VERY similar parts in their production?

C-Liner PK1 trucks

I was checking out my C-Liner a couple of days ago (for that nasty grease that they used). Thankfully there was not too much in there.

But something that did make me uncomfortable was how the those little square axle bearings could become displaced out of the square shaped receptacle in that metal side-plate. It appears to me that there should be additional spacers on the axle shafts between the gear and the bearings?

Here is a photo i found in images, as I did not photo my particular loco,...maybe I should take it apart and do that?? Mine had much more empty space between that gear and the bearings,...which allowed the bearing to move inwardly out of good engagement with the metal plate receptacle.

Yes the drive trains had different designs, but NOT the axles and gears between the early locos produced by them.

I have several P 1K C-liners that I hope to recondition and add reefer bodies to disguise them into pusher power for some of my steam engines.

I would like to hear from more folks about their experiences with these Proto 1000 C-liners??

from another forum and older posting,...