Working on it.

That's all I'm saying.

I've been looking around

recently because I thought I'd seen one on-line somewhere, but no luck.  I got my first Shapeways product (I printed a custom door/window set particular to a building on my prototype) and l'm pleased, but I think some things I'd like to have done would be better done laser-on-wood, and maybe cheaper.

Color me intrigued

Bill,

I'd love to know what you have in the works.  Depending on price, there are quite a few things I'd like to have laser cut.  If you need a beta tester, let me know!

When I'm ready...

I'll certainly be signing up to be an MRH sponsor, and after that, you'll hear all about it.

laser cutting

We do custom laser cutting all the time. I have the drawing info on my home page of the web site http://www.rslaserkits.com. We just cut the roofing for Clever models and have cut for others.rich

Wait a minute....

Just to be clear, in case someone hasn't seen the other thread, Michael Rose's idea goes beyond something like custom cutting pieces for a building like Rich is talking about.  Rich custom cut me some trusses for an engine house when I was in N scale and I was very appreciative but Michael is actually cutting his roadbed that goes  under his trackwork with a laser.  My thought and comment  was about the roadbed and how much labor it might save but a custom cutting service for all types of work would be really cool too.

Regards,

Michael

Kingmill Enterprises 

Kingmill Enterprises  Kit-O-Mat      http://www.kingmill.com/

...

Buy the laser.  Download the files.

 A laser can cut road bed but

A laser can cut road bed but not with a angle  for the ballast. Most lasers can only cut  at a 90 to the bed. you would need a CNC router and the right bit to do roadbed right.                                                                                                

Getting somewhere

Exactly.  If there was a service like Shapeways, you could have custom roadbed, or  structures, or freight cars, or anything else you can think if that would logically be made on a laser cutter.  I took your idea and improved upon it!

I don't really think you need the ballast profile, and it would be a poor use of a laser cutter anyway.  Cut the ties, and lay it on cork roadbed.  If you want to cut the roadbed, cut it thin, and don't raise the track quite so high about the surrounding area.

I know you bought a laser cutter, Benny, but I don't think it's the best use for my modeling budget.  I might realistically want 1-2 laser cut projects per year, at something short of $50 apiece.  Even at $100/year for laser cut kits, it would take me decades to amortize the cost of the laser, and at the end of that time I have a 20+ year old laser cutter which, if it still works, is nowhere near as good as what is available commercially since the big boys would have been upgrading as the technology improved.  If I had my own laser cutter, I would probably find several things which I could do with it instead of some using some other, less expensive tool, but even so it's not likely that I would amortize the cost in any reasonable time.  There's also the problem of having to find a space for it, and maintain it.

You could make the argument that we should all buy 3D printers as well, but the same logic applied.  Shapeways and others can provide much better quality parts at a reasonable price, in a reasonable time, and without requiring each of us to invest in and maintain our own printers.

Also, it might be nit picking, but I'm not talking about downloading files.  I'm talking about making my own drawings, and sending them to a printer who would them send me back the parts.  Since I can do both 2D and 3D CAD work reasonably well, in my spare time and inexpensively (using free software in both cases), all I need is access to the laser itself.

Rich,

How does your pricing structure work, and are you prepared to do small jobs, like a single structure or car?  If so, it sounds like you might be offering the service I am looking for.  I will have to work on some drawings for things I want, and see what sort of money we're talking about.

What about custom paint masks?

Just thinking about things a laser might be able to do..  Would it be practical to cut stencils for lettering, presumably out of something like masking tape?  I need lettering as small as about 4" in HO scale, roughly .046" actual.  A stencil might be a good way to make sure that I can always get the lettering (no worries about ALPS printers failing) and that I can match the color exactly (since I pick the paint).  but..   are letters that small practical?  If not, what is the practical limit?

...

Ken, the whole thing about the laser cutters is how simple they are in both concept and operation.  You can make one yourself, if you have the ability to make the table and set up the electronics.  That being said, the finished boxes are getting to be around a reasonable price.  That's why I finally bought mine when I did.

I have not done much with the hobby since I started writing my novel set last fall - but that's just how it goes.  I will say that there's nothing better than being able to make what you use, so if you were using laser cut ties or roadbed, it's really best to have the machine in your hands to do the work.

"How hard would it be to set up a company like Shapeways"

   The problem is people still need to know how to create the files to send off to the cut or print on demand company. For something as simple as roadbed it's not worth learning the skills needed to send off a cutting file, one could cut all the road bed for a layout before they could figure out how to run the design software. If they need complicated things like trusses or lots of odd windows or other intricate parts a laser might make sense but  still the design file is going to take more cad skill than most of us would want to acquire. Modelers tend to want to spend their time modeling instead of studying how to run new software. I've ordered TT scale cars from Shapeways but I wouldn't want to spend the time it takes to make a shapeways ready car file and I certainly wouldn't want to spend money on having someone laser cut roadbed since it's such a low value item......DaveB

 yes we do one off's all the

yes we do one off's all the time as for pricing drop me a email as this is not the place to go over that  I would think. Have added a second laser here in the last month or so now if I could clone myself  might get more done   

I've been reading this thread

I've been reading this thread with interest because it looks like I kind of triggered it ...

It's interesting to hear everybody talk about laser cutting but nobody mentions laser engraving. Now cutting is simple - make a drawing, define your material, send it out to somebody who can do it for you. Engraving structures and textures is a different animal altogether. Here you have to create a  gray scale image where the different grays define how intense the laser fires and how deep it engraves. The problem is that your file depends both on the material and the laser engraver being used so it's not easily portable. What works beautifully on my laser might not look like much on a different machine.

The reason I bought my own laser is that I want to make my own buildings the way I want them and for that I have to be able to optimize the complete process from design to manufacturing. Also, because I will need several hundred structures for my layout it makes sense economically. I never expected ending up making roadbed and track with the laser. The roadbed happened because I wanted more precision than whatever cork gives me, the track happened because Atlas is too unreliable at this point in time.

Would I use a laser cutting service if it was available? Probably not because I need to go beyond cutting.

Also it's a lot of fun doing it yourself!

...

That's the whole thing about having the lasercutter yourself - any time you get an idea, you can go make it yourself and in really very little time. 

That being said, most of these things we've been making [structures, tie strips, templates] are Already On The Market.  Michael's tie strips, for example, are similar to a product offered by FastTracks [Crossties, $3.00 for 10"]. 

My curve templates that I made to lay out the curves on my layout, they're extremely similar to Fast Track's Sweepsticks [$9.00] - and they certainly function the same way.

Structures, there's a ton on the market right now [but they're not cheap]. This here is my very first laser-cut structure.  Market estimates for a station kit of this size is around $30 for the station and $20 for the RPO shed, BUT I would have to settle for a kit that is already available [their plan, not my plan].  In doing this project, I learned how to use SketchUp, and then I learned how to get my output printed to scale.

So if you want these ideas, you can certainly buy them.  Getting your own laser, though, will give you the ability to make exactly what you want to make when you want to make it, if you can figure out a way to lay it out in 2D. 

If you don't want to take the time to learn a new skill, well, then you put yourself at the mercy of those who are on the market selling these goods.  They are out there, and they will make stuff for you, but it's going to be at a fair market rate.  All this being said, even if you don't buy the laser yourself, if you want them to "print" stuff for you, you'll have to send them one of the file formats they use on the laser or you will have to pay them by the hour to set up your project.

All this being said, and having constructed a number of commercial laser cut kits, there is no greater thrill then when you put together a kit that You Made Yourself.  And there's no greater relief when you completely DESTROY a window during construction and have the ability to just "print another ten off."  When I made my station, I made the windows out of 1/32 sheet basswood, next time I'll probably solely use cardstock!

Anyone heard of TechShop?

I learned about it a year ago, I'm no spokesperson so you might want to Google it for more accurate details, but...it's a public workshop you pay a membership fee and get access to all kinds of machines (CNC routers, CNC laser cutters, 3D Printers, etc...it varies by location, but most have a common 'core' of machines).  If one isn't close to you, you might be able to get into contact with a member and have them do the work for you.  I don't see TechShop advertised anywhere and I think it is a really neat idea; Check out their website, they might have something someone here can use.

...

Light bulb moment...

In order to have someone cut the file for you, you have to learn how to use the software the cutter industry uses to make it happen.  As some here have said, they want to spend their time modeling, not sitting at a computer drawing something up in a CAD program.

Just look at how many people still rely on good old pencil and paper to draw their layouts...it is what it is... but perhaps this is why this industry hasn't taken off like Kinkos.

Benny nails it.

"In order to have someone cut the file for you, you have to learn how to use the software the cutter industry uses to make it happen.  As some here have said, they want to spend their time modeling, not sitting at a computer drawing something up in a CAD program."

This is the point most people over look when this subject comes up.  It's easy to underestimate just how much work has to go into getting the CAD work right before sending it to the laser. 

Every once and a while I get requests to cut things for modelers on our laser, and I always give the same response, "sure, send the CAD work ready to go and I'll be happy to"  The CAD work is rarely forthcoming.  I've received lots of pencil sketches and bitmap files,but the laser doesn't seem to know what to do wit those. I've since learned to not do that anymore.

I shudder to think what it would be like to attempt an on demand cutting service.  I know from years of experience, they first cut is rarely right, it takes several attempts to get something right, usually 5 or 10 iterations before everything fits as hoped.  Imagine trying to do all that through email.  Yikes.

Good luck.

Proof Plots

Having designed circuit boards using a program called PADS for crcuit boards one would plot out the board first on a plotter or printer to check that the circuit is correct. The software would then prepare an HP format plot file that gets sent to the board manufacturers photo plotter used to make the board. I would think that this can also be done with a laser cutter. Design in CAD convert to CAM send to CNC machine. The problem is that the average modeler doesn't understand the process used to get from the idea to the end product. For instance you can't expect somebody that is in the finance field and has never had any experience in the machining field to understand that process unless it's a hobby that they are engaged in.

Bernd

CAD work takes time

Trust me, I have no illusions about that.  I've spent the last couple days working on some drawings to have a caboose laser cut.  I would guess that I am about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the 3D modeling portion of the process, and then I have to convert everything into 2D drawings suitable for the laser.  I'm working in 3D because it allows me to see how things fit together - something which has already come in very handy.

However, I don't see this as a major problem or flaw with the process.  It's certainly no different than taking the time to put together a good 3D model to send off to Shapeways.  Just like not all modelers will ever bother making their own 3D models, not everyone will want or be able to have a kit laser cut.  However, it seems like there would be a demand for the service, just as there is a demand for Shapeways.

...

Converting from 3D to 2D wasn't too big of a deal, it just involved taking apart the Sketch Up model and redrafting it on planes.  If anything, the whole process of using CAD is very easy for obtaining crisp square lines every single time you draw something!  And if you want to make changes, it's not like with paper where you have to throw it out and start over, or erase large parts.

The time is a wash if you're making many units.  If you scratch build one, it takes just as much time per unit to scratch build two or three or four.  But if you laser cut one, you can cut many with very little time spent cutting everything beyond the first unit, so the time on future units is what you'd spend on a commercial laser cut building and not much more.

I got it mainly for making windows.  If I were to scratch build one, it'd take between 15 and 60 minutes to make one double hung window.I know this because that's what it took to measure, cut, and then assemble a couple using strip wood and jigs.

I then made a second and compared the two to each other, and resolved I will never be making windows by hand!  Waste of time for an inaccurate product!

In maybe two minutes my laser cut all the windows for my station, [there's about 20, of various shapes and sizes], allowing me to spend my time Modeling [i.e. building] and not making windows.