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Help with an Athearn Blue Box locomotive Locos and rolling stock
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Frequent poster 568 posts John Buckley roadglide Frequent poster 568 posts
John Buckley roadglide

Hello all. I am in need of some advice on how to get my Athearn locomotive to run. Heres the story.

It was a gift from my wife for my birthday. The guy told her he had taken it apart at one time and had put it back together but could not get it running.

I noticed the metal band that goes across the top of the engine was missing so I soldered wires to each of the tabs that stick up from one side of the power trucks. Both are on the same side so they are getting power from one rail. Soldered those wires to each end of the top motor clip.

When I remove the motor from the frame and touch two power leads to the top and bottom of the engine it runs just fine. When I place it back in the frame and use the same leads to the top and to the frame, I get nothing.

Here is what I have done so far.

1. Drilled a threaded hole in the frame and inserted a screw into the hole. connected one of the power leads to that. Nothing.

2. Removed both power trucks and replaced them with power trucks I know that were working. Same result.

3. Scrapped the bottom of the frame where the bottom of the motor sits inside to make sure I get good electrical contact. Same result.

4. Removed the engine from the frame again and connected the power leads to the top and bottom motor clips. Motor runs like its supposed to.

At this point I don't know what else to try. So any suggestions over and above what I have already done would be appreciated.

John

John

COO, Johnstown & Maryville RR

 
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Bernd MRH Author 5,598 posts
Bernd

Gear towers

The gear towers are on the wrong end. Switch the two gear towers end for end.

Bernd

New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds - NCSWIC
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Larry of Z'ville Frequent poster 984 posts
Larry of Z'ville

The power lead that you connected to the screw

Should have been connected to the bottom motor clip. The scraping of the bottom of the chassis and the power lead are both getting electric power to the chassis. This needs to be transmitted to the motor. The bottom motor clip usually has fingers the make contact with top surface of the chassis where it mounts. If this is not making contact then the motor is not seeing the electrical power. Since you have already soldered wire from the truck arms to the upper clips, then solder a wire to the bottom clip and connect that wire to the screw in the chassis. You know the motor runs when it has power, this will go it that power. For more details look up "5 wire tune up of Athearn locos" on the web. Larry

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com
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Larry of Z'ville Frequent poster 984 posts
Larry of Z'ville

The gear towers

Should both be on the same side. Aft looking forward, they come up on the right side and bend towards the left side. If they point in opposite directions you will have a short and it won't run. I they both point right, it will run backwards. Larry

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com
Reply 0
John Buckley roadglide Frequent poster 568 posts
John Buckley roadglide

no short

Both geaR towers are on the same side. So I am not getting a short. 

John

COO, Johnstown & Maryville RR

 
Reply 0
Larry of Z'ville Frequent poster 984 posts
Larry of Z'ville

I still think connection is lost at bottom motor clip

You can check this by repeating the lead test. This time fix a lead to the bottom motor clip and touch the other lead to a wheel on the side of the towers. If the motor runs then the brake down is between is between the clip and the wheel on the other side of the truck. Is the motor mount holding the motor snugly against the chassis? If so I have one other things to try. Let me know if the above test works. Larry

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com
Reply 0
Larry of Z'ville Frequent poster 984 posts
Larry of Z'ville

Basically your looking for the breaks in the electrical path

You know that leads on both motor clips work and loco on the track does not. Besides what I said above: Leads touching the wheels on opposite sides. If that works, the problem is the track. If not and the wheel to bottom clip works, the the problem is from the clip to the opposite wheel. The options are as follows- The fingers from the clip to the chassis. If you solder a wire to the bottom clip and connect it to the screw, then you don't have to worry about this. The chassis to the top of the truck- the shiny chassis bottom should sit on a shiny metal surface that connects o the left side of the truck. The truck to the axel - the older BB loco's had a metal side frame with a meal bearing surface that the axel rides in. The bearing surface often would corrode and break the connection. It should be clean and shiny. The later units have a plastic side frame. These trucks have two thin verticle metal plates on either side of the truck. The one on the right connects to the tower, the one on the left connects to the surface that the chassis rests on. There is a brass colored bearing on he inside of the wheel that rides in a slot on the bottom of this plate. The plate and this bearing have to be connected for current to flow. Oxidation can hide here. These also need to be clean and shiny. The axel to the wheel to the track- the axel rides on the bearing on both variations. The older is outside, the later is inside. The axel can rust. It needs to be clean and shiny in the bearing. The wheel is directly connected to the axel, so to last problem area is the surface of the wheel. The standard wheel won't shine, but it needs to be clean. A slight film and the connection breaks down. It sounds like a lot of problem areas, but for there to be no power a major connection is broken. Larry

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com
Reply 0
Mark R. Regular poster 293 posts
Mark R.

Process of Elimination

You've obviously taken all the right steps.

You've proven the motor runs, so it's not the motor. You've tried other trucks, so that rules out the trucks themselves. Swapping trucks end for end will only make it run backwards. As long as the top clip is on the same side with both trucks, you are good. 

The only two remaining points of contact are between the bottom of the motor and the chassis, and where the trucks rest on the king pin.

 

Mark. 
Reply 0
DKRickman Prolific poster 3,069 posts
DKRickman

Why not upgrade?

As Mark said, you know the motor works, so the problem is somewhere in the path from the rails to the motor.  I will second the suggestion to use the 5 wire Athearn tune-up.  In addition to eliminating potential problems now, it will make the engine a breeze to convert to DCC in the future, should you or anyone else ever wish to.  One thing I do differently than most of the sites suggest is that I cut off the top tabs on the trucks, and solder wires to the sideframes on both sides.  I find that it makes assembling the model a bit easier, and I think it looks neater as well.

I have taken things a bit further in a couple models, and bypassed the truck sideframes entirely.  I soldered fine wires (solid wire would work, if you can get the spacing right) to the bronze axle bearings, and from there ran wires up into the model and to the motor (or decoder, in my case).  It's a bit extreme, but it eliminates every moving contact, except between the wheel and rail, and the axle and bearing.  I have never had a model so converted give me trouble due to poor contact.

If you think there is any possibility that you will ever consider converting this model to DCC, RailPro, or any other form of command control, I strongly recommend that you make sure you insulate the contact on the bottom of the motor.  It sounds like that's your problem spot anyway, but it wouldn't hurt to make sure.  Once you install wires, you won't need the contact, and insulating it now will prevent problems if you or someone else assumes that it's insulated and installs a decoder without checking first.

I would also suggest trying to maintain the proper wiring color standards.  Red wires to the right rails and top of the motor, and black to the left rails and bottom of the motor.  If the model runs backwards, swap the motor connections.  You could even go as far as to run orange and gray wires (connected to the red and black wires, respectively) to the motor, thus maintaining the color conventions all around.  Run white and blue wires to the headlight (yellow & blue for the rear, if there is one).  That will simplify the decoder installation even more.  You might not want DCC now, or ever, but the next owner of this model might, and there's no harm in doing things "the right way" now.

Ken Rickman

Danville & Western HO modeler and web historian

http://southern-railway.railfan.net/dw/
Reply 0
John Buckley roadglide Frequent poster 568 posts
John Buckley roadglide

Its now working

Sorry I have not responded sooner to the great ideas and help you guys offered. It was a busy weekend what with Norfolk Southern bringing their Salute to Veterans locomotive into Jacksonville, plus Sunday football. And then Veterans Day stuff.

I was able to get the engine running by soldering a wire to the bottom clip and then soldering that to the metal screw I had drilled into the frame. So all is good. Its DC for now and will likely stay that way until I can afford a nice Sound Detector.

Thanks again everyone for the help.

John

John

COO, Johnstown & Maryville RR

 
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