dimentions?

Hey, Ken, How big (small?) is this thing? (aprox. is good enough - I figure you didn't take it to work ;^)  I'm working on a sound install and this might be the time for me to give a cell phone speaker a shot.

Thanks for your help with this and all the other things you've helped me out with!

Is the the "ear phone" speaker for the iPhone

I've got an iPhone but have never taken it apart to see how it ticks. Are you using the "ear phone" speaker here in your demo or is it a different speaker. If so, what would it be called? Fascinating stuff.......

Sugar Cube Speakers

There's a number of people experimenting with these tiny speakers. They've become so popular, that a few shops are selling them, TVW Miniatures even has wood enclosures for them.

Laurie McLean has done a number of videos on testing these tiny speakers with good results ....

Here's a couple examples using four of these speakers in an array from George at TVW Miniatures ....

Check the right hand column on YouTube for more videos.

Cell phone speakers from TVW Miniatures ....

http://www.tvwminiatures.com/Cell-speaker-size-collection1.html

The great thing about the extremely small size of these speakers is that they can actually be mounted in the boiler of a steam engine quite easily. This gets the sound coming from where it's supposed to come from !

Mark.

Perhaps the Tsunami

with your regular speaker and then the cell speaker would give a more objective comparison as I can't tell how much the TCS colored the sound.

I agree with you though that cell phone speakers have opened a new door to sound fidelity and broader applications. I have 2 of the speakers and wood enclosures TVW and the sound is impressive.

Paul

Sorry for the delay in responding

I just measured one of the ones I have.  The whole thing is 5mm thick and 54mm long (52.5 if you remove a mounting lug).  The center section is 11mm wide and the "bulb" on the end (which houses the speaker, I believe) is 15mm wide.  The other end is 14mm wide.  Thus it will fit inside a box 54mm x 15mm x 5mm.  The sound port is on the side of the "bulb", and is just visible in the photo I posted with the Amazon link.  In terms of port area, it looks to me as though the port is about the same size as an HO scale locomotive exhaust stack, which suggests to me that it might be possible to pot the sound where it is supposed to be.

This is the speaker from inside an iPhone 4, not an external ear bug or plug in speaker.  Look for replacement or repair parts.

I thought about that, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.  While not quite as useful, another test I want to do is to put the TCS decoder into the tender in place of the Tsunami.  I designed the tender to allow easy swapping of decoders without massive rebuilding, with just this sort of test in mind.  That should at least give a direct comparison of decoders.  I will also try different speakers on the same decoders at some point.

Update

I tried a couple things tonight.  I pulled a speaker out of a Blackberry, and it sounds tiny by comparison.  I also soldered the TCS decoder to the speaker in the tender, to see how much of the sound was from the decoder.  Here's what I learned:

• The Blackberry speaker is 8 ohm, and it does work with the TCS decoder.  However, the sound is miniscule by comparison.  With the right installation, it might be possible to make them sound decent, but it's not a slam dunk.  I'll probably try, because I have several on hand, but it's nothing I'm going to look for more of in the future.
• The TCS decoder in my scratchbuilt tender, with speaker from Bachmann, sounds really good.  I would say that it sounds roughly comparable to the sound of the TCS decoder and iPhone speaker, though I did not compare it side by side.

What I get from my experiments is that the iPhone speaker is surprisingly good quality (sorry, Prof) in a remarkably small package.  I would say that it is as good as a typical amateur's (meaning, mine) speaker installations, maybe better.  For that reason, I will probably be using them preferentially in the future, though I will probably not bother scrapping the speakers I already have.

wire location

I should be receiving a couple Ifone speakers I ordered after reading this. On the Ifone speaker where is the connections? I tried to see on the pics online, but probably won't know until it's in hand. Hopefully it's somewhat easily marked.

I have a galaxy S4 phone currently. I had too many problems with the apple. I did notice the external speaker on the new phone seems quite a bit louder and clearer than the Ifone ever was. So I ordered one in the mix too. When I get it hooked up I'll post up with the findings. 

I'm really hoping this works out well. With the size of the speaker there will be a lot of extra room.

Enclosures

Even though these phone speakers have some pretty decent quality, you still need to make an enclosure for them to get the most out of it. Wood veneer makes an excellent material for speaker enclosures, and would be very easy to fabricate. Like any other installation, be sure the enclosure is air tight and the speaker is well sealed to it.

Mark. 

My experiment with this type of speaker

Good afternoon,

After watching Laurie McLean's videos, I looked online for a source.

At the DigiKey.com site: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv60=106&pv588=7&pv589=3&FV=fff4000b%2Cfff80046%2Cfffc01a7&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&chp=0&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 I selected 3 rectangular models; the "Sambo"( 423-1176-ND ) , "Dumbo" ( 423-1175-ND), and "Nautilus" ( 423-1179-ND).

The picture shows where I was able to install a "Dumbo" speaker in an Atlas RS-1. The speaker was sealed to a piece of .040 styrene and then secured to the frame in the short hood/cab area. The plastic sits above the front truck and doesn't effect the truck's movement.

The sound is as good as I've heard from a Tsunami (in my humble opinion). Just thought I'd share my happy experience with the speakers and install!

Tim Moran

Akron, OH

lots of different speakers

The connections are the long gold contacts close to the center, and are clearly visible in the photo above.  I found it very easy to solder to them.

That depends on the speaker.  Specifically, the iPhone 4 speakers I tested already have enclosures as part of the package, and I would not suggest trying to replace them with something homemade.  Other speakers I have seen (such as the Blackberry I cut up) do need enclosures, though.

Having trued to put a speaker in an S-1, I have some idea how tight that installation is, so well done!  I am especially intrigued that you decided to seal the speaker against a piece of styrene.  Did the sound or volume improve compared to the same speaker in free air?  Also, what is the practical difference between the "Sambo" and "Dumbo" speakers, which seem to have the same dimensions?

Thanks for the reply. I kind

Thanks for the reply. I kind of was thinking it was the two tabs. I couldn't really tell in the video. I bet the sound sounds better in person. These el cheapo computer speakers don't do anything justice.

 

Recording sound

The microphone on my camera isn't the greatest, either.  The camera is great, but it's a digital SLR, not a video camera.  Unlike some, mine doesn't have any provision for an external mic, either.

Speaker Differences (per your questions)

Ken,

The reason I chose the "Sambo" was the slightly wider frequency range as noted on the product ID page. The "Dumbo" model has a slightly higher volume capacity, though. The "Nautilus" is an edgeported design and I haven't figured out a good way to get the sound out with that version.

Before sealing the speaker to the plastic, I experimented with these speakers. I had a bass reflex speaker to gauge them against for overall sound. Again, to my ears, the small speakers simply pressed against a hard surface (such as the styrene) matched the bass reflex speaker in it's enclosure. The next experiment was sealing the speaker. The results were more than satisfactory for me. This loco went to a friend's ops session the next night and I was told that the engine "definitely sounded like an Alco". That's good enough for me!

Based on the relatively cheap cost of these speakers, I'd recommend (as I did) buying several of each model and "play" with them to get the best results for you!

Respectfully,

Tim Moran

Akron, OH

Nice install

Tim, That is a sweet and simple install. I realize that we're not aiming to shake the house with these, but I see an outlet for a good less expensive option.

Dang

So I thought I didn't get any mail yesterday. Don't wait until 11:30pm to check the box. I'd make a mental note, but I'm outta paper.

So I scrambled to the train room with the speakers. I put one of the Ifone speakers in a P2K BL2 with a soundtraxx decoder. I was running a soundtraxx speaker with a custom enclosure. Needless to say the sound level was marginal. I swapped in the new one. WOW!!!! What a big difference!!

Then I put the Samsung speaker in an athearn P42 that is equipped with the LM2 module from rail pro. I had the narrow bass reflex speaker from rail master in that. The sound did improve. Not as good as the Ifone speaker though. But I am thinking it would sound better if the intake screens or the fan was opened up. I'm going to stab the Ifone speaker in it in a bit. I'll come back with results.

iPad speakers - how to mount

G'Day,

I've been using these tiny speakers for some time now and they are called dynamic transducers. They are also called cell phone speakers and sugar cube speakers.

It is very important to select a way to mount these and to make an enclosure for the iPad speakers you can obtain without an enclosure box.

Cell phone speakers are very tiny about 1/4" wide by about 3/8" long and you need to place several in an array to get sufficient volume to hear them - but when 4 of these are combined they do sound good.

The "real" iPad speakers are the 8 Ohm types commonly fitted into tablets where the unit can play iTunes so the speaker/s need to be good enough to please the owners ears.

These are all around the 10mm wide by 16mm long abd about 4mm thick. These are great by themselves and they need a styrene enclosure with a styrene back cover.

As these dynamic transducers have a strong magnet (not like the cheap conventional speakers with a thin steel washer magnet) the coil moves more and pushes air however the uniqueness is that what ever they are in contact with also becomes an extension of the speaker and aids in producing sound waves.

So, the way these need to be mounted is important and they need to be in contact with the loco body to allow the sound waves to pass into the loco body and therefore producing more sound for our ears to hear.

Carefully inspect the black plastic frame and you will find gaps that need to be sealed to prevent the rear sound wave contaminating the front sound wave with the sounds we want.

Once the styrene enclosure (0.020" thick styrene) is made and attached to the iPad speaker the back cover needs to be glued and to make a good seal one piece fits into the box and a lid glued with this so you get a perfect seal.

This back of the enclosure is what needs to be glued to the loco body so that maximum body contact is made and the sounds can resonate into the body.

These are, in my opinion, as good as the smaller high bass speakers and many of the small conventional speakers. They take up far less room and can fit onside steamer boilers where the steam sounds, whistle and bell sound come from.

I have several demo video on my YT channel - search  - scoopmmr

Laurie McLean MMR

Australia

Source for speakers

I repair cell phones for work occasionally and have been buying parts from FlexQueen.com for some time now and they have been a great vendor.  Never thought about using them in a loco though, nice work.

David

Galaxy speaker

I tested the Samsung Galaxy speaker, and while it's roughly the same same (a skotch bigger) the sound wasn't that good as the Ifone. I am going to order some of those Digikey speakers. The size on those seems just right and should be able to mount them just about anywhere.

I have two of the Ifone speakers and one of them I cut open out of curiosity. The whole black piece serves as a baffle. I didn't totally remove the Speaker from the enclosure. But when I opened one end as it was on there was a noticeable degrade in sound quality. I used the liquid cement and sealed it back up.

Trust Apple!

I'm glad somebody had the nerve to cut one open.  And I'm glad to know that my instinct to not cut one open was right.  So now we know - leave the iPhone enclosure alone, and use it as-is.

IPhone speakers

Factory enclosure

Correct.  I would not recommend trying to modify them, or to develop your own enclosure.  I look forward to seeing what you do with them!

Enclosure

Roger that on the enclosure. On my first run I bought two just to toy with. Curiosity got me, and I opened up one. The sound degraded a lot. But I just order some more and I am going to open it all the way and try a smaller enclosure.

I have some more to play with

My brother in law just gave me some more speakers, this time from both iPhone 3 and 4.  The iPhone 3 speakers are larger, but he says he can get a lot more of them for me.  When I get home, I will have to play with them and see how they sound.  I am hoping that the sound will be at least as good, since the larger package does not seem so large that it would be a problem for most installations.

This is exciting for me, as it opens up a new world of possibilities.  I've always wanted the sound to come from the right places on a locomotive!

iPhone 4 speakers

Holy moley, these are small. The previous "cell phone" speakers I purchased from TVW are much larger (remember that is always a relative term). It occurs to me iPhones have 2 speaker locations, the one for the ear and the 2 for listening in, logically enough, speaker mode. Would they be the same size speaker? Or is the ear speaker larger?

Is the black surround ton the face of the speaker he enclosure? Or, do I still need to enclose the back side of the speaker as I did with the TVW units?  Anyway, taking some with me to Pasadena next week to experiment with.