Brad Ketchen OSCR

In my first post I talked about moving to a smaller space, a condo in Toronto with my girlfriend and how I could accommodate my passion that is my model railroad, the Ontario South Central. Well, we found a lovely place. Its an open concept loft style condo. We fell in love with our brand new living arrangement instantly. The main living room, dining and open concept kitchen is a good size for the price in Toronto at 20' x 12'. After signing off on the place I was thinking, how would I instill my passion for model railroading in this place? 

Well, I came across Lance Mindheim's Blog and his August 10, 2013 entry 'Instant On Layouts, The Five ton Elephant in the room'. Feeling a bit down before the read as I may of had to put my hobby on ice for awhile, it lifted my spirits. As soon as I finished reading it, in discussion with my girlfriend about furnishings and so forth, she piped up, "what about your model railroad?". I got a huge rush of positivity and showed her Lance's blog and got the go ahead! 

So what I have devised is a layout, 6' x 1' with a staging, fiddle yard hidden behind my work space as you see in my layout plan. 

0plan(1).jpg 

 

Its a modest plan but I managed to squeeze in 3 industries (with an option of spotting a tank car at the end of what we'll call track 2. I've utilized the staging area as a runaround and lead to the mill industry at the top of the diagram. 

It will be on a shelf about armpit level that if need be I can store in a closet in times of company and so forth replaced by candles and the feminine touch . Although the plan is to make it look really nice with, again, Lance's recommendation of nice fascia... but i'm sure the layout would be a nice conversation piece.

With bills and such I will be running DC with 5 blocks. Its a one engine operation but I can swap my DC locomotives around.  The idea of course is to switch to DCC. 

My question to you, with this common rail old school DC block arrangement, switching to DCC, will I be able to just hook the wires from my DC power pack to the AC of my new DCC NCE Power Cab or is a total rewire?

So i'd like to thank my Girlfriend, Heather, for understanding and allowing me to have my model railroad in our living area. She's been great in this move. And... she's allowing me to bring my Marshall Guitar stack to our living area! Great find she was.

 

 

 

 

Ontario South Central Railway, Toronto, Canada. 

Reply 1
Pelsea

Just pay attention to the turnouts

If you buy or build "DCC friendly" it will take you about 5 minutes to convert. pqe
Reply 1
dreesthomas

common rail or not?

I started out with DC, but with all of my blocks gapped on both rails.  Switching to DCC was a simple matter of having all of my block toggle switches set the same way.  Works ok for a small layout, but you need a proper bus arrangement for DCC on anything larger.

David

 

David Rees-Thomas
Reply 0
Brad Ketchen OSCR

Turnouts for DCC

Thank you David and Pealsa for your replies. I have Atlas turnouts (I tossed all my Shinohara's). I plan to buy Micro Engineering ones, but for now on the budget, i'll use those for now. David, i've always ran my layout with DPDT's on my control panel with common rail wiring. I never got around to wiring another pack, being such a small layout in the first place. So if I have all my DPDT switches say switched left i'm good? 

David... on re-read it makes sense! Thanks again. 

cheers.

 

Ontario South Central Railway, Toronto, Canada. 

Reply 0
ctxmf74

"have Atlas turnouts "

If they are code 55 Atlas I see no reason to buy Micro Engineering turnouts instead? My Atlas code 55's seem more trouble free than my Micro Engineering code 55's. As for the wiring since it's such a small amount of track I'd just wire it from the bus wires as one block with maybe  feeder toggles to turn off a couple of gapped spurs if you want to park an extra loco, that way you will minimize cost now and have  simpler wiring when you convert to DCC. I'm wiring my around the room layout as three blocks for trouble shooting but they all connect to one bus when running. When hooked up as DC as it is now for testing I have three spurs that can be switched off so two locos are parked off line and one loco is running at a time.When hooked up as DCC I'll just leave all the spurs on and be able to run any of the locos at the same time.....DaveB

Reply 0
Joe Brugger

Good start

That would make a nice "shadow box" kind of arrangement that would blend in well.  The plan could also be divided in the center where it goes to single track, allowing you to wrap it around a corner and even run a concealed connecting track behind other furnishings in the room. 

Any chance you could provide a larger jpg of the layout plan, or provide a link to a more readable version?

Reply 0
Dave O

"What about your model railroad?"

Wonderful!  

Reply 0
dreesthomas

DPDT switches

Quote:

So if I have all my DPDT switches say switched left i'm good?

Yup, that's what worked for me; in fact that layout wiring remained in place until I moved.  I didn't instal a DCC bus until I rebuilt an expanded version in my new home.

David

 

David Rees-Thomas
Reply 0
salty4568

Why bother with DCC?

Not everybody needs DCC ..... I am building a 12 foot x 2 foot switching layout with several blocks and DC. I purchased a PWM (Pulse-width-modulation) throttle which has great control for switching, etc. Half of my loco stable is DCC, other DC. Right now I can't afford to change over to DCC, nor is it necessary right now.  If you want DCC, fine, otherwise you can do fine with DC, especially a small switching layout. 

Skip

 

Skip Luke
Retired Railroader
washington State

Reply 0
ctxmf74

"Why bother with DCC?"

on a small or one loco layout the main reason to use DCC is to control the sound and lighting effects. My N scale locos don't have sound and I have no reason to run more than one train at a time but I still plan to use DCC when the track work is complete so I can experiment with under the table sound decoders. DCC is almost cheaper than a good cab control system when you take all the wiring into account....DaveB

Reply 0
Delray1967

Why 5 blocks?

I know the value of blocks for troubleshooting, or running multiple DC locos, but 5 blocks will add a bit to the construction (both time and money).  I had a 4x8 that I built before DCC, and when I finally got DCC (NCE), I disconnected the DC power pack, hooked the wires to the DCC and it worked great (one block, both rails gapped at all locations, #4 Shinohara, non-DCC friendly turnouts).  I don't have the layout anymore, but I didn't have problems at turnouts, or with troubleshooting, and the wiring was undersize (telephone wire, since I worked for a phone company at the time) and no wiring bus.  The wiring was a bit messy, but worked fine.  I don't suggest cutting corners, but 5 blocks might be a little more than necessary for a small layout?

NCE Power Cab is only $150, which is less than a loco with DCC and Sound; why not start out with DCC if you're eventually going to it?  Gap both rails...it's no more difficult than gapping one (is it? I never tried common rail wiring).

Nice track plan, not too ambitious and will provide nice switching with a variety of cars.  May I suggest making the layout Free Mo compatible?  As long as the main track is square to the endplate and wiring is able to be hooked up to other modules, it will work, as long as you plan for it.  As the plan is right now, it would be perfect for an end of the line on a Free Mo layout, so only one end needs to be compliant.  I have a 2x12 switching layout that I take to 1 or 2 Free Mo setups a year and the people I've met have made it worthwhile (and a good excuse to take a mini vacation with the girlfriend).  My modules are not 100% Free Mo (for example, I use regular wall plate phone jacks for the throttles and they work for NCE and Digitrax), but it works great and the guys love the switching it provides.  I only suggest this since you're in the planning stage and it won't take much to make it Free Mo compliant (track doesn't even need to be centered since this won't be a Free Mo only module set).

Even if you don't take any advice here, I can see you're off to a great start!  I'm sure everyone would love to see pics, not only of the final layout, but during the building phase...heck, it could even make a good MRH article!

Reply 0
Nedbrause

2-Wire DCC

Two wires is all you need.  If the track connections are good for DC, then the DCC signal will go through.  I have a 4x8 HO twice-around layout with an NCE Powercab and all Atlas insulated frog turnouts, and never had a problem.  All my locos negotiate the trackwork without losing power.  With a small switching layout like shown in the illustration blocks aren't needed,

Ned

Ned Brause
ATSF
Halstead Kansas
Reply 0
Brad Ketchen OSCR

Good start

Thanks Joe.. Yes I was thinking the same thing... Maybe extend a track hidden behind the furnishings to say an industry I modelled before.. an Ethanol plant. Good advice! cheers!

Ontario South Central Railway, Toronto, Canada. 

Reply 0
Brad Ketchen OSCR

Track plan

Here's a bigger plan. I've added a highway bridge to disguise the entrance to the staging/fiddle yard. 

 

0plan(2).jpg 

Ontario South Central Railway, Toronto, Canada. 

Reply 0
Brad Ketchen OSCR

re "2-Wire DCC"

Thanks Ned. Yes i'm planning on DCC and 2 wires are all I need. Cheers for the advice.

Ontario South Central Railway, Toronto, Canada. 

Reply 0
Brad Ketchen OSCR

re: Why bother with DCC

Hey Skip,

Good advice. I know what you're saying about the price point of DCC. But I work in Post Production audio and downsizing my railroad I want all the nuances that DCC has available. The sounds, the lights.... I wish someone could produce the look of an Alco smoking away and the smells of the oil and creosote ties we experience rail side.

 

Ontario South Central Railway, Toronto, Canada. 

Reply 0
ctxmf74

" the smells of the oil and creosote ties "

They do a decent job of it in O scale but the trains take up a lot of room so the track plan suffers..DaveB

Reply 0
j_pigden

2 wire DCC

Too many 'experts' simply parrot the 2 wire backbone urban myth.  Network topologies come in many flavors with the point-to-point being one.  The other common design is the star, almost a DC common rail setup.  Did you connect 2 wires in each block?  If you did, the change will take 2 minutes & a small flat screwdriver.  If not, you are trusting the rail joiners.  I tell people, 1 DCC connection every 2 joints.  As to turnouts, keep a bottle of nailpolish handy during DCC operations.  If you get a short, a touch of polish at the frog should help you locate the culprit.

Reply 0
j_pigden

re Track plan

Have you considered adding a car float/ferry operation to the end of your yard?  A simple way to add/remove cars for more variety.

Reply 0
Bruce Petrarca

Solo DCC operation . . .

is the subject of my November column. I understand finances. However, consider the hassle of putting switches into your fascia, only to take them out later. Your planned PowerCab and one DCC loco would get you going for now. If you use switches, make sure they are rated 10 amps. Not that your DCC system will ever pass that sort of current, but lesser switches have more resistance and may be a DCC problem down the road.

Bruce Petrarca, Mr. DCC; MMR #574

Reply 0
Brad Ketchen OSCR

re: Solo DCC Operation

Hi Bruce, thank you for your information. And I look forward to your article. 

What if I wire like a DCC bus arrangement attached to my DC terminal in my (vintage) power pack? I would just be running the one locomotive but having a background with DC Common rail wiring i've always had the block arrangement. But this layout, can it be wired as per a DCC bus arrangement, and simply replace the the wires to the new NCE Powercb throttle?And can I get away with feeders like I would with DCC with a temp one block with the DC wires? Am I going to have troubles with turnouts and crossovers? I know in the DC arrangement crossovers need to be gapped. 

As you mentioned, I am on a budget, a musician's budget mind you My second question is, with my current Atlas Kato Alco's (RS18b and C424 as per CP Rail's specs), in your opinion, would it be cheaper to have a decoder installed, with accurate sound and lighting (the lights would have to be milled out as they are currently jewels) or just spring for a brand new DCC locomotive? My Engines were kit bashed 20 Years ago and I'd still like to run them. Wonder if its a better option price wise and the nostalgia vs buying a brand new DCC one (for now)? 

Thanks again.

Brad

 

Ontario South Central Railway, Toronto, Canada. 

Reply 0
ctxmf74

"Am I going to have troubles with turnouts?"

Turnouts and reverse loops still need to be gapped so they don't cause shorts. The only difference is you don't need to create train controlling block since multiple locos can all run together in the same block. If you start with DC and wire a few blocks to run more than one loco you can always just throw all the blocks to on position or remove the toggles and tie the wires together when you switch to DCC but I'd just wire everything for DCC now and run one train at a time on DC  till you add the DCC controller. As for those classic locos I'd modify them if you are happy with the work you did on them 20 years ago,nostalgia is worth a lot in model railroading, I still have my Atheran GP7 from 1957 and if I had an HO gauge layout I'd be rebuilding it and running it with DCC and sound.....DaveB 

Reply 0
Brad Ketchen OSCR

Re: why 5 blocks

Thanks Delray for your advise. Can I ask what 'Free Mo' means? I'm not familiar with that. Great comments. And yes if they want me to document the progress up here, i'd be happy to contribute. Great site. Thank you!

Ontario South Central Railway, Toronto, Canada. 

Reply 0
jeffshultz

Free-mo

Free-mo is a modular standard. Since it appears that you are working in N scale...  http://free-mon.wesleysteiner.com

Also check out the November 2013 MRH for MC Fujiwara's article on building a Free-moN module:  https://forum.mrhmag.com/magazine-feedback-was-ezines-891776

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
Bill Brillinger

OSCR is HO

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/track-plan-database?page=22#comment-193065

hed-plan.jpg 

Bill Brillinger

Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, Admin for the RailPro User Group, and owner of Precision Design Co.

Reply 0
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