From the mess factor alone

From the mess factor alone, I shudder at the thought of running a router along homasote in the layout area. 

Secondly, I have a hard time imagining that you can get a smooth cut with a router using the track as an edge - unless you make a jig that actually rolls on the track and doesn't bounce against the ties.

I'm not saying it's not possible, in fact I'd be interested to see someone else's success or failure just to see how it would work. I'm suspicious though that those kinds of cuts should go in first.

router on homasote

A router on homasote would be he worst of all combinations.  Homasote is notorious for the dust and particles created in sawing.  A router would magnify this beyond your tolerance.

I have cut homasote with a saber saw using a knife type blade.  This virtually melts the homosote along the cut so dust is minimized.  Balancing this is the fact that the whole thing gets very hot and conceivably could catch fire.

Using a hand-held portable saw along laid track is problematic also.  You might try a section to see how it works but experiment on a place where access is good (for driving the saw) and potential damage is small.

Please report on your experience.  It will be useful to others.

Artarms 

Try it out...

I have never run across this idea before.  I would try a test away from the layout first.

I second the mess cautions, also wear a mask to protect your lungs, unless your router has a dust collector connected to it that is.

I doubt the router will acheive a machined edge on the homosote but I could be wrong.  I think it might tend to dull the bits rather quickly but I could be wrong about that as well.

I am interested to hear how this works for you.  Please post the story and pictures, ( if possible) of your success or failure, whichever the case may be.

Good luck!

Dull router bits

I haven't tried it, but since Homosote is a compressed paper product, and paper is one of the worst things ever made for dulling cutting tools, I would expect that cutting it with a router would dull the router bits rather quickly just like BlueHillsCPR said.

Hindsight ...

I've used homasote a few times and I hate the stuff. (Tell us what you really think, Joe ...)

I've developed layout construction techniques that don't use homasote anywhere, and I'm one happy camper. I think homasote is oversold - and the building products industry has learned model railroaders come looking for the stuff, so they price it accordingly (in other words, jack the price).

That doesn't really help you now, this is more hindsight. How much track do you need to cut in this way? I'd suggest a saber saw with a knife blade as has been recommended, to minimize the mess. Go slow and allow the blade to cool often.

Hopefully you only have a few feet that needs this treatment. If you have a whole layout, then all I can say is "oops" ... so much for "planning ahead" (not that I haven't done stuff like that) ...

The best site I've seen so far

The best site I've seen so far about using Homasote is from Craig Bisgeier's great site. No need to duplicate his explanation, just see his instructions on how to make your own Homasote roadbed.

I followed his instructions, and was successful with the results. Cutting homasote is a messy, messy, messy afaire, so it makes sense like he says and do as much as you can while you're doing it.

Reverse a table saw

From the Homasote website (seriously..)

All Homasote products may be cut with a circular saw, jig saw or hand saw. Do not use a fine-tooth blade; fiber build-up will reduce cutting efficiencies. The half-inch panels may also be cut with a razor or utility knife.

Chris

If it's movable, easiest to move it

Even though the track I have laid so far is down it can easily be removed because it is hand laid in a sectional format (a couple of turnouts and a diamond).

Then the best advice would seem to be to pick up the track, put down some roadbed (Homabed, cork, vinylbed, whatever), and re-lay the track. Much easier than milling out all of the surrounding layout surface, I would think.

Homasote alternatives

I prefer masonite hardboard spline for roadbed. The hard part is getting it cut into uniform splines (we can discuss options there) - once you've done that, building masonite spline roadbed is a pure pleasure. I use flex track or jig-built turnouts that I make at the workbench, so I put the track down directly on the masonite hardboard with gray latex caulk.

For large flat areas like yards, I use 1/2" plaster wallboard - it's inexpensive, readily available, and works fine when backed with 1/2" plywood. In towns where I needed to have a little more variation in the contours, I just laid the track on spline and made paper cutout patterns for the plywood/wallboard sandwich to be inserted between the splines. Yes that's a little more work, but it's not that hard.

I'd also recommend a plywood/foam sheet sandwich if you need to cut some contours like a small stream into the scene.

Homasote is pricey and very suseptible to moisture - both from scenery work and from humidity. Plaster wall board is actually more dimensionally stable than homasote, and will not be as affected by either humidity or moisture from scenery work.

For large flat areas like

Joe, what is the purpose of the wallboard in that case? That is, what advantage does it give you over putting the track right on the plywood?

Chris

Advantages of wallboard

It's a smooth light gray color and in a pinch I can cut into it with a utility knife for things like drainage ditches, etc. You don't want to be whacking wall board up a lot, but for a small depression or ditch, it's quite workable.

Plywood is harder and has a grain that may show through, plus you can't carve into it worth a darn.

More wallboard

I don't necessarily endorse the wallboard as roadbed concept. But the stuff is relatively cheap and very sound inert (as in quiet). The biggest problems with it that I can think of are it doesn't hold spikes particularly well and if it gets really wet (as in glueing scenery) the top sheet of paper (its a thick paper - gypsum - thick paper laminate) may delaminate from the underlying gypsum.

It's probably got a more uniform thickness than homasote does from sheet to sheet, too.

I'd suggest completely avoiding using a router anywhere near track. Once it starts spinning it becomes a gyroscope and can develop a mind of it's own regarding where its going. The bit will get dull very fast from cutting what's basically compressed newsprint, and you'll *never* get rid of all the gray dust in your basement if you're adventurous and try cutting the stuff down there. At least it's not pink and doesn't hold an electrostatic charge making it cling to everything.

Cheers,

Charlie

Welcome to the MRH forums Joe

Welcome to the MRH forums Joe Shopper. I'm just another subscriber and forum member like yourself and have been reading all the helpful comments form some of our more active members. I am a finish carpenter and cabinet maker and consider myself a expert with all power and hand held wood working tools with more than 40 years experience.

First leave the Router on the shelf like both Blue and Russ said. I have done alot of decorative work with the many different size routers I own and as far as routing Homasote it's and accident looking for a finger or two to remove. I use Homasote mainly for yards and large flat areas and I seal it with 2 coats of sanding sealer so water will not soak into it and cause swelling. I use Cork roadbed for the rest of my railroad simply because I have always used it and I like it but I also use 1/2inch plywood and 1/2inch homosote under the cork to help keep down the noise .

Since you already have track and ties down and now you want a beveled edge I suggest use a hand held Utility Razor Knife and a box of razor blades. when you cut Homasote always use new sharp blades and use care and slowly cut the homasote so you don't end up with a couple hundred stitches. Use a sharpy marking pen and draw a line about 1/8 of and inch from the ends of the ties. then using the utility knife slowly draw the blade along the line at about a 45 degree angle and only cut into the homasote about 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch deep with each cut. Take your time moving along the line keeping the angle constant. cut about 24 inches at a time and continue re-cutting the same line over and over continue moving the entire length of the track and remember take your time. With sharp blades it will cut very quickly and try to avoid cutting too deep or too fast so that your angle stays constant. Now if you plan on using Homasote for the entire Railroad I would check out the site Scarpia has offered a link to. Craig Bisgeier has done a really great job of showing that cutting your own can save alot of money. If you own a 10inch table saw or have access to one buy yourself a Dewalt 10inch Carbide saw blade w/24 teeth fast ripping they are designed for fast smooth cutting of plywood and all types of fiberboard and cut Homasote quite well without clogging I tried Craig method and it works quite well. I have the advantage of a fully equipped wood shop with a vacuum system hooked up to my power tools so dust isn't a problem. If you are cutting it without the vacuum system it is close to the messiest product next only to sanding drywall and the dust will get very thick very fast covering everything.

I've never tried Joe Fugate's drywall on plywood or glueing track to masonite splines but that's in no way saying that his way is in anyway wrong. He must be doing something right as his modeling is top notch and he has 5 Top of the line CDs how to build railroads to prove it and also is the creator of the MRH magazine so now you need to figure out what your going to do. Joe Fugate suggested useing a jig saw with a razor blade attachment but I wouldn't use any power tools that close to track because youcould  mess up alot of already tacked down trackage. If you wish to use the power jig saw on bare Homasote before laying track and ties make sure you have plenty of new sharp Blades because they get dull fast.

Once again Welcome to the Forum and I hope to see what and how your doing on your Railroad.

Dan

Thank you Dan

Dan Thank you for taking the time to shine your expereince on this subject.  I am proud to be an unconventional thinker but I try not to be foolish and buck conventional experience.  I trust you are right and I am glad I did not go forward with purchasing a router and the additional bits let alone the potential danger factor.  After considering all the helpful comments I received yesterday I started brain storming.  What I decided to try is pretty much down the ally of what you suggested.  I used a sharp scalpel for the beveled edge (vertical cut) then I used a Xacto frame trimming tool with one of the blades removed for the horizontal cut. The frame trimming tool has a guide so it follows the path fairly well. I will attach a photo that shows a small section.   The Homasote carves nicely.  I anticipate the project will go pretty fast from hear on out. I do anticipate going through a few blades though. 

AMEN

Homasote is like plaster of any type, I do not use either one any more and have not is 20 years.

Homasote

Me, on the other hand, I love it !!!  For the past 30 years that is all I have used on my layout. Never had an issue with it. I love it, because it is easy to "plant" things into it. If I want to make a lake or do different elevation on the table top is easy. And the best thing is a good sound insulator.

Homasote hands-on experience

Joe,

Several years ago the MRR club I belonged to decided to try an experiment using Homasote for a spline roadbed. 1" wide strips were cut from 1/2 thick Homasote and 5 strips were glued together to form the roadbed. That formed an extremely sturdy base so strong it could be walked on! The catch was the outer edges needed to be beveled to form a proper roadbed profile.

We ordered a 60° chamfer bit to get that perfect angle and so the router would simply sit on the spline while the bearing followed the edge. Mind you, bits over 45° are not common so that was the first challenge. We wisely decided to not try making the entire cut in one pass because the bit would bite HARD into the Homasote. In fact, the only way to keep control was to move the router in reverse.

Here's what that means. Safe (and sane) router use would have it progress from right to left when cutting a chamfer near you. This causes the bit to be drawn into the material. The bite of the Homasote's paper layers was so strong it could rip the router out of your hands. Also, it made for a very ragged edge because it would shread rather than actually cut.

The only way to use the router was to s-l-o-w-l-y progress from left to right while keeping it held in place tightly. This shaved little pieces from the leading edge of the cut and prevented tearout -- and it took f-o-r-e-v-e-r! Plus, as others have mentioned, the dust was simply incredible even with 2 vacuums running.

Bottom line -- use a router on Homasote? NEVER AGAIN!

YMMV

Mike

If you are using Homosote for road bed & cutting it from full

sheets, I would cut it the width of the ties, and at 90 degree angles on the edges.  I would build up the ballast slope on the edges with plaster or foam glued to the bench work adjacent to the Homosote.  When you put down your ballast, the transition from one material to another will be hidden. 

Homasote

I would bevel the edges using a utility knife.  A sharp blade will cut quickly with very little if any fuzz.  Using handlaid track as a router fence will result in having to relay all the track.

Using Homasote

Joe-

I have used homasote for my entire layout and while I don't necessarily love the stuff, it's worked well for hand laying track. As for beveled edges, I tried a number of different techniques and finally settled on using drywall compound. There was an article in the July 1990 Railmodel Journal that covered cutting the homasote into strips and then applying drywall mud to either side in order to create a typical roadbed profile. I made a template out of plywood to shape the drywall compound on either side of the homasote. The picture below shows the cross section of a piece of roadbed that I removed for a bridge (that's why the ties are spaced so far apart- I knew there would be a bridge here).

You can see the drywall compound on either side of the homasote. The next photo shows how I cut the homasote strips in order to make curves. The red lines indicate the cuts, and they are roughly 2/3's of the way through the homasote. You need to be careful when cutting these strips as they become prone to breaking.

In the next photo you see several of the experiments I tried. Both were cut with a saber saw and neither one worked very well.

In the photo below, you can see how the finished roadbed looks once the initial layer of ballast has been applied.

I've only had two places where I had problems with the homasote swelling, and they were easy enough to fix (one was even located in an area with finished scenery). Later on I started covering the homasote with a coat of thinned latex paint prior to laying the ties. After that there were no more problems. My layout is in a basement in Cincinnati, Ohio and the temperature remains relatively constant throughout the year. Wide temperature variations may have more of an impact on the swelling, as will loading up the area with water during scenery work.

Tom Patterson

Exactly what I wanted to see...

Tom,

I have been contemplating shaping my homasote roadbed and considering different approaches. I like what you have done and I had the same results as you working with homasote. I may try making a slope with rolled paper and masking tape and then a thin layer of plaster or drywall compound. 

Thanks for the great description and pictures!

Ken Glover

Chief Engineer, Kansas Pacific Railway

Table Saw

I cut homasote into roadbed, including the sloped shoulder, using a table saw. I simply angled the blade to the degree shoulder I wanted, set the fence for the desired width, and cut the sheet into strips on the short side (4'). Working from the outside in, (I had cut the panel into much more manageable pieces than a full 8'), I just kept flipping the piece around to get a trapezoidal shaped cross section for each strip.

That worked fine for full thickness pieces.

I also tried cutting down the thickness. I first cut straight strips (full base width of the trapezoid), than set the table saw fence so I could rip each strip down - with the blade width, I ended up with a half and approximately quarter thickness strip from each full strip. I reset the saw angle and fence, and than ran those individually through the saw to build up the shoulders.

A couple of important points......

1. It's a bloody mess working with homasote. I had no idea until I started cutting, and even though I had moved my saw outside on a clear day, the mess stuck around the yard for quite a while (it floated and drifted in the wind).

2. table saws are one of the most dangerous tools out there. I used fences, and a jig to push the strips through so my hands were no where close. You can't take enough caution with them.

3. If you cut homasote, cut twice to three times as much as you think you'll need. It's simply not a pleasant job, and it's better to do it once and be done with it.

4. I liked handlaying on it, but I'm not so certain the ability to hold spikes is a big of a deal as folks say it is. It's been my experience that handlaying track on cork seems to work just fine.  On my current layout, I'm using nothing but cork, and have had no problems, and a lot less mess!

hope this helps.

Homasote

I have cut Homasote with a bandsaw and a table saw and its really dusty stuff.The bandsaw doesnt throw the dust around quite so much specially if you can hook up a vacumn to the bandsaw. I use a 3TPI blade in the band saw.

I have used a rotozip( a small router used to cut wallboard(gypsum type) with a wood cutting bit in it and it works great. I use this machine with a circle cutting jig to cut out my turntable holes. But like the guys say its dusty as heck. Homasote was originally used back in 1905 or so to soundproof passenger cars and the company has branched out from there. Now, you may find a Rotozip tool at HD or Lowes then look in the Dremel tool bit selection for the proper shape router bit. It'd be good to have someone follow along your router with as big a vacumn cleaner as possible to control the dust. You might even cutain off your immediate work area with painters plastic or some such. BILL in Idaho