DCC system

I have been using CVP Products for about 6 years, and use their RF1300 Radio Throttles, and find it to be very reliable and easy to use. My layout is 29' x 32' with a couple of extensions which bring it's size to about 1200 SF. I started out with their 5 amp system and a few years later I switched to the newer 7 amp system mostly because of the number of sound locos we run on my OPS nights. I have the layout split into two separate power districts, so I have 2 boosters and 2 power packs. I have had only one problem and it was my fault. I installed one of the four batteries in my radio throttles upside down. The battery installation is not like normal where the batteries go +/-, -/+, all 4 of the AAA batteries install with all the + going the same way. What happened was the circuit board got REALLY HOT and melted the battery enough to cause it to leak thereby corroding the terminals. Sent it back and Al fixed it for no charge except shipping charges. Any other questions that have come up a simple phone call and Al was able to help with it right away. Customer service & product quality are first rate. Based on my experience, I can't rate them highly enough.

All of the guys in my operating group use CVP systems. I started out in DCC using the system most people use, but had nothing but trouble with it, never could get it to work reliably, and found it very hard to work with. I took it out and sold it and bought CVP, and have been very happy since.

Richard  Superintendent CNW Peninsula Division

blog - http://mrhmag.com/blog/richard_harden

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I personally feel EasyDCC, while functional, is about as archaic as you can get right now.  We have one at the club and to do anything require the manual...

Digitrax is not much better, as many will say it requires a bit of understanding to get going.   But it's popular and common...the best part is how compatible it is with JMRI and with Loconet.

Then there's NCE, which many like...

After which you have Lenz, Zimo, Fliechmann's Z-21, Ring's system, The Sprog, and others.

I'd aim at any system that can network with JMRI.  JMRI is a godsend for manipulating decoders.

 

One more thing about CVP.

"Anyone here know of a downside to these products? "

    All the brands have some downside .  CVP might cost more due to no competition between dealers? I'd look for model railroaders in your area and see what they are using so you can use their experience and knowledge to solve any problems that might pop up on your layout.  I like digitrax zephyr because I like having a desktop console for the times I don't want to hold a throttle, plus I like their handhelds with knobs. I've used NCE and like it's display format but don't like the throttles as well. Lenz makes a good system but didn't have radio throttles for many years so I didn't consider it. These things last forever so I don't know about the newer stuff like MRC, Bachman, etc. If you are just starting to build a loco collection and don't need to worry about DCC compatibility you might look into the newer systems like Ring, S-Cab, Radio control, etc. but you'll pay the price of being an early adopter and might pick a dead end system..........DaveBranum

Hi Richard, Thanks so much

Hi Richard,

Thanks so much for your input, I truly appreciate it. I have sensed it was the way to go.

Best, Dan

Thanks for the

Thanks for the input! 

Best,

Dan

Thanks Dave! Best, Dan

Thanks Dave!

Best,

Dan

Thanks Benny,   Best

Thanks Benny,

Best

4 AAA Batteries?

I don't think I have a car in my fleet that could hold 4 AAA batteries.

Their is NO support

I will not recommend them at all. At one point owner said was not doing any more development with system. Have been around way too many people who cannot stand them. They are limited in connection to other devises.

You have two choices NCE or Digitrax. These two companies represenente 90% of the business and are fully supported.

Ask your friends what they use. 

CVP is my system

I've been using EasyDCC seen it came out, had railcommand before that and CTC16 which I built from a kit that Al supplied.  I am running HO and HOn3 in 2 rooms 25X15 and 28X14. All my throttles are wireless T5000E and I am connected to JMRI. For any kind of support I call Al at CVP and he has always given me the help and any replacement parts I needed. We run 8 trains with sound at the same time with no problems.

Using CVP DCC System

          Our modular club has used CVP DCC since we converted from DC to DCC. There were teething problems to begin with and we have done all the upgrades as they became available. Being Modular we have a different wiring system. We do not use zone control as our three mains are individually powered by multiple boosters. This has caused some the demise of some sound and regular decoders plus the wiring harness between some of the steam locomotives and we have burned up the factory boards in the diesels.

          Our Electrical engineers in the club have been working with the system at their houses and one of the solutions has been to ground the circuit boards as the plugs on the boosters are only two wire. So far we are headed in the right direction. My suggestion was to change our thinking and zone control the entire layout using one seven amp booster for a set number of modules. 

         I plan on buliding a small home layout with Two Boosters the old ones I would guess about four amps each. I am going to place DCC Specialities Circuit breakers between the boosters and the rails just to be sure I don't have any burn ups. I do miss the RF1300 wireless throttles. They feel right in your hand and and I like having Knob Control. I hope this helps and updates we find I will post.

Which witch?

In my opinion, the future of DCC is in the hands of the network.  By that I  mean connectivity to the desktop and your phone.  Today, with JMRI or Lenz you can get a superb throttle on your smart phone better and easier to use than the manufacturer's  proprietary offerings. And the phone based throttles will only improve (my opinion of course) 

Connectivity restrictions

Lenz - Multiple connections with or without JMRI to your computer and phone

Digitrax - Multiple connections with JMRI but a PC is required. Announced vapor ware LocoNet WiFi widely listed but not available and may never be.

NCE - ONE connection to a computer (JMRI) and no direct connection between the phone and the NCE command station. no intention of changing their interface.

 The nuanced difference - I need two concurrent connections to JMRI and my Computer program (CTI or RR&CO for example).  Lenz and Digitrax will let me do this. NCE will not.

I have owned and used all three brands and primarily use Digitrax and use my Lenz system for workshops to demo the future capabilities using a WIFI router as the wireless throttle network. Lenz system would be my choice but my PC program (CTI) has not yet rewritten their interface for the new LIEthernet box so I defaulted to Digitrax with two Locobuffers.  

In short, I'd recommend you start with Digitrax using a Zephyr and upgrade to more advanced capabilities as you need it.  The Zephyr is so close in operation to a regular DC throttle pack learning is straight forward. It is now my favorite throttle on my layout and I have duplex radio.

The operations based crowd will insist on NCE, but I find them short in the connectivity area and find their throttle the hardest to learn and use of the bunch.

Lenz has done some amazing things but they have been way short on support since Debbie dropped out of the picture.  Watch the Lenz Yahoo forum for awhile you will be easily convinced like I have been that there is a driver problem with the latest LIEthernet USB driver.  

Just my two cents,

CVP for modular club use

          Our modular club has been using Easy DCC for a number of years. Our layouts range from 12x14 to 40X60 and sometimes larger if room permits. We have done all the upgrades as they were introduced. The latest ,we changed to the new 7amp boosters that have adjustable outputs. 

          We do not use zone control. Our three lines around the layouts are powered by there own boosters and in most cases multiple boosters. We had a period of time where we were burning up decoders both sound and regular decoders when we entered a crossover and it was discovered we were picking up the voltage from both boosters and it was somewhere around 36 volts. Once the boosters were grounded that issue seem to go away.

          I and most of the club members really like using the RF1300 throttles. To bad they discontinued them in favor of the T5000's. Do I recommend the system,yes at this point. When we researched the system for our club we included most of the other popular brands, NCE, Digitrax,etc. At the time of purchase NCE had problems and Digitrax was just to complicated for our group of members. I have CVP for my home layout yet to be built but I will be installing PSI Breakers between the boosters and the rails.

          The best thing to do is place the throttles in your hand  from the different brands and see what fits you the best. Research it and make your decision. I am sure the best is yet to come.

NCE.

I picked up a NCE Power Cab starter set from Tony's Train Exchange a little over a year ago.  Normally they're mail order but seeing as I only live an hour away and I'm usually in the area I stopped in to pick it up. The guys up there seemed very knowledgeable so I'd imagine they could help you sort out any issues. Can't argue with the price and it's made in the USA which is nice. I'm not sure how many extra gizmos and doodads it has vs the Power Pro Series but it's pretty easy to set up. The trains go back and forth, the lights come on, the bell rings and the horn blows... I call that good enough. I'm building a switching layout though so I only run one loco at a time so I don't know what kind of power you require. I like simple so for me this system is a 10 out of 10.

Why I Chose NCE

I used DC only for 30 years. My last layout only had one reverse loop so it was fairly easy to wire and use. When I had to tear down the layout to make room for some of my family to move back in, I decided to look at switching over to DCC.  Another more important reason was that the new layout that I was planning to build would be much more complex in its wiring due to the multiple reverse loops which would probably be possible in DC (makes my head hurt just thinking about it) but easier done in DCC with AR circuits.

The first thing I did in researching the big three (my opinion) in my area of Central Texas, i.e., Digitrax, NCE, and CVP-Easy DCC, was to talk to people at the local train shows in San Antonio and New Braunfels about what they used and what their likes and dislikes were.  The vast majority of DCC systems that seem to be used in this area are CVP-Easy DCC and Digitrax.  Many of the users especially liked the service that they received from the guys at CVP just up the road in North Texas.  Many users of Digitrax told me that they really liked that system since it has a lot of options that are easy to add and use.   I also downloaded and read the manuals for the three DCC systems cited above.

By now, I was leaning toward CVP-Easy DCC at first but I really liked the expandability of Digitrax, and ease of use of NCE.

While I was in the Dallas area, I went to my all-time favorite hobby shop, DMT in Addison, and talked to the owner about DCC.  He demonstrated the NCE Power Cab and let me use it.  It seemed fairly easy to use and understand the buttonry. A few months later, I had an opportunity to purchase an NCE Power Cab at a really good price. This way, I could try it out to see if I really wanted to switch to DCC before having to spend too much money.  I also bought a DCC equipped engine (BLI refurbed E-8A) to see how it worked. 

A couple more train shows later with a few more pointed discussions about Digitrax and CVP-Easy DCC coupled with my experience with the Power Cab convinced me that the system for me was NCE.  Some systems use more button pushing than others which I did not like.

In my area of Central Texas, I never saw any other DCC system (e.g., Lenz, ESU, etc) in use at the train shows that were not the three that I described above.  Basically what I am saying is that you need to research the systems for yourself and decide based upon which DCC system will work best for you. 

CVP?

Here is a fine example of how the internet and forums in particular can be a bad source of input.  If you looked at this thread, you would have to come to the conclusion that CVP is the only way to go, and everyone uses it.  This is not so.  NCE and Digitrax have far more devotees than CVP.  I'm personally in the NCE camp and can't find any fault with their design since they changed their cab buss stations to DIN plugs.  Their radio system is very slick.  It's been rock solid for 10 years and is easy to work with once you bother to read the instructions.  

And you never run out of "slots."

"the conclusion that CVP is the only way to go"???

    I saw lots of replies that said NCE or digitrax and Lenz too IIRC? When I read it I got the impression that CVP works for many but is not "the only way to go" ...DaveBranum

different thread?

You must have been reading a different thread than I was.  Digitrax was only mentioned in passing, three people said they use NCE and the rest of the discussion was about CVP.

"the rest of the discussion was about CVP."

 Well it's kinda hard to count them because some had opinions about more than one system but I get 4 anti CVP statements, 4 positive CVP statements, 2 positive Digitrax zephyr statements ,and 3 positive NCE statements. So although there are more about CVP( which is natural since that's what the poster was inquiring about) they are far from universal in it's recommendation. .DaveBranum

I use it and Like it

I am in a pocket of CVP users here in the south bay area CA.  Lots of us use it in regular ops sesssions. I have used the system since 2000, owned it since 2004.  Rock solid, I don't hassle with DCC issues ever. 

Upside -  great wireless, easy interface, like the 1300 throttle feel. 

Downside - cost, clunky computer interface.

Al is very helpful and stands behind his product. At the time I bought my system, it was the best wireless out there. Since then the others have improved (most notably NCE). My advice - try before you buy.

Guy