Track planning software

I would like to chime in with a list of things but I am not familiar with the software.  I am looking forward to the first article introducing the program to me.  Being a user of XtrkCad I am still having a little trouble with the $125 price tag attached to 3rdPlanit.  I was going to check out a demo but I saw the demo was limited to 100 objects and decided I wasn't in a big hurry to download it.   I can understand disabling saves etc. but limiting objects like that...is the demo even worth downloading?

Anyway, as I said I am looking forward to seeing the program in action!

3rd Plan It

Ryan,

I am really looking forward to your tutorial.  I have the most recent version of 3rd Plan It, but the learning curve is steep for someone not familiar with CAD programs.  I have done the turorials that come with the program, but it is still a challenge for me.  So many times I have an idea for how I want a track drawn, but it takes me like 2 hours to figure out how to make the program do it.  I just give up and pull out a pencil and paper.

I have commented before on the fact I would pay to attend a tutorial on it, so again, I am looking forward to January!

3rd Plan It

Hmmm... How are you approaching this issue?

After getting the walls of the room placed along with what ever artificial boundaries may be present I draw a series of circles where the track will need to be curving. Then I use the connect with easement tool to connect them together.  After that I use the copy parallel tool to add sidings or help with yard construction. I don't mess with structures or terrain until the track is pretty well in place (at least for me terrain is a tedious thing so I don't waste time on it until I'm pretty sure the track is solidly in place).

Perhaps this gives you a few things to think of?

Cheers,

Charlie Comstock

You are right Charlie!

I describe and illustrate with images and short movie clips that include audio descriptions of actual screen captures of the software in use. My step-by-step procedures for creating the room dimensions, layout landscape (benchwork area), track circles, and tangent track connections are all shown in detail.

I will cover the following topics in Part I in the January 2009 segment:

Cheers,

Ryan

Ryan's Tutorials

I've been using 3rd Planit for nearly 10 years. And after looking at what Ryan's proposed all I can say is "Wow! This is going to be EXACTLY what people struggling to learn 3rd Planit need to get them up to speed!"

I find that I can scribble track plans better in 3rd Planit than with a pencil and paper. After going through what Ryan will be demonstrating I think all you CAD super-user wannabees out there will be able to do so too.

The layout design limitations will be between the ears - sadly no CAD program can design a layout for you. CAD just provide and easier way to be precise about what you draw (and it keeps you from cheating with sub-radius curves and  the ever popular #2 turnou t frogs).

Heck, I'll probably pick up some pointers from this too!

Best regards,

Charlie Comstock

XtrkCad

I have been using XtrkCad and am quite fond of it. my only issue is the way easements are handled. I want to specify a fixed easement length rather then have it be a ratio to the curve based on how sharp an easement you want. I work around it without difficulty.

I did use an older version of 3rd Planit a number of years ago. It seemed a good program and at the time it had no freeware alternative. It seemed relatively bug free and no harder to use then any other consumer CAD system and quite a lot more polished then most. However, unless it has changed a lot since then, I don't see a compelling reason to use it over XtrkCad unless you really like the 3d image view to design your scenery. As far as I can tell, this is the only feature XtrkCad has no equivelent to at all. Of course, I have a tight budget so the price plays bigger for me then it may for others.

I will look forward to this series of articles not out of any desire to use 3rd Planit, but to get ideas about features of other systems or to look for features in XtrkCad I may not have realized were there. Most of these programs have end up with common "best practice" ways of doing things.

Chris

PS The best place to pick up XtrkCAD since it went open source is http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage

XtrkCad

Chris,

I have been using XtrkCad as well and have become quite fond of it.  It would be great to see a series of articles describing it's features and functionality.  I have not used the easements function to this point and would be interested in learing more!  If someone did for XtrkCad, what Ryan is doing for 3rdPlannit, I know Joe would put it in a future issue.  I'm not ready to tackle a tutorial on it's advanced features but I think I might be able to manage most of the basics.  It would be nice to have some collaborators though.  I don't suppose you or any other XtrkCad users have thought about contributing to MRH?  Just thinking out loud.

When I get farther along in

When I get farther along in the design of the next layout I put some posts on my blog about my experiences with XtrkCAD.  I had a great time with it designing several layout ideas including the small "practice" layout I am building now.

XtrkCAD is good choice for articles about layout design software since everyone has access to it.

Chris

sorry.. not trying to hijak a 3rd Planit thread.

While 3rd PlanIt is my CAD tool of choice...

Many of the techniques that I review in the 3rd PlanIT tutorials will also be useful for any type of computer aided drafting (CAD) software you may select for your track planning. The buttons, menu selections and GUI interface may be different with each application, but the basics are the same for just about any type of CAD software.

With any CAD track planning software you must define an area first (room, benchwork), set down the track curves and tangent lines second, add turnouts, etc...then set up grades or elevations for that track. And then define the structures, landscaping contours and finally other details such as trees, foilage and then backdrops.

And with any CAD software, practice makes perfect!

Regards,

CAD tool of choice

Hey Ryan,

I couldn't agree more!  While I would like to see something that pertains to XTrkCad in the future I am anticipating the series on 3rdPlannit for the very reasons you mention.  I expect to be inspired by your tutorials and maybe I'll be so impressed that I'll find myself wanting to switch to 3rdPalnnit.  What I have seen of 3rdPlannit's 3D components is has impressed me.  That is, as Chris mentioned the one area where XTrkCad does not compare.  Can't wait for January!

3rd PlanIt as default CAD

     I have 3rd PlanIT, version 6 point something as I recall, and while I like what it does, it runs very very slowly even on a fast machine with 2g of memory.  Have you been using 3rd Planit long enough to know whether it has improved in performance between way back when and the current version?  I"m trying to decide whether to purchase the new version or get the new version of CADrail.  I have a little experience with CadRail, but not that much.  It seems like there were a few things it doesn't do that 3rd Planit does but if I spend less time waiting on it than 3rd Planit I'd be happier with fewer features.   I've run other CAD software without it being slugglish so I don't know what it is with 3rd Planit unless it was just that the older version didn't take advantage of the hardware.

  Thanks,

  R Hume

Is 3rdPlanit slow for you in

Is 3rdPlanit slow for you in 2d or 3d mode? I've been running 3rd Planit in various versions for 10 years and don't recall it ever being slow in 2d mode. In 3d mode however it was a pokey little puppy. Now it runs much faster for me (version 8) in 3d mode, but I also have a relatively fast computer (Core 2 duo Q6600). The fact that you had 2Gb of memory probably makes little difference to the performace of 3pi vs the speed of your graphics card in 3d mode. Also, 3pi used (dunno if it still does) the OpenGL graphics library rather than the DirectX library. My belief is that Randy has spent a lot of time optimizing the 3d performance in version 7 and version 8.

Have you tried asking about this on the 3rd Planit yahoo egroup? Randy sometimes hangs out there.

Cheers,

Charlie

Looking forward to it

Ryan, I'm looking forward toward your tutorials.  I have found 3rd Planit frustrating, particularly when it doesn't do what it is supposed to such as lining-up turnouts (curved turnouts are particularly problematic), at least for me.   I hope to discover the errors of my ways.

Mark

Re: Is 3rdPlanit slow ...

     Since you've been using it long enough to notice a difference between the current version and what I have I'll just save up and buy the latest version.  3d is the main place it's slow, but it seems to be sluggish when there are many layers even when they're not all visible.  Chatting with someone else, they confirmed that the speed in handling layers is much better in more recent versions, so I'll go ahead and stick with it.  I was considering CadRail as well but can't find as many folks using it.   I recall the CADRail demo having some things I liked better, but then again, I'm comparing an older version of 3rd PlanIt to a new version of the other.

     Thanks for the help.

    Regards,

     R Hume

The current version I have is 8.06.000.1330

To answer your question I have noticed that the 8 (dot) versions do run with better response than earlier versions. In the 8 (dot) versions there is a system clock calibration that helps to utilize the CPU more efficiently and will run a comparison between the Multi-media timer resolution, System timer resolution and is verified against tick count with each application start-up. There is also a feature to manually re-calibrate the clock to calibrate the system time, and it is found under the File menu selection Help, then System information... button.

There has been a recent update to version 8.06.001.1349 and it states the following were accomplished:

Improvements to Connect Turnout, Connect Crossover and turnout insertion. Drill-Down editing with Shift key for navigating nested groups. Fix grow/shrink tree in 3D feature. Fix temporary display of incorrect grade after Connect Turnout.

For more details visit the El Dorado Release Site page at http://www.trackplanning.com/release.htm

I have not made the latest update but plan to do so soon.

Follow up to 3rdPlanit slow ...

   It took a while but I finally got the current version of 3rdPlanit and it cures all the problems I was having with an old version 6 I had been using.  My main problem was when there were several layers and a complex trackplan, expecially with grades involved.  In that situation, whether all layers were showing or not, version 6 would get very sluggish.  Loading some of the same plans, sometimes with minor mods, everything is now as fast and fluid as it is with Autocad when using it for other types of designs.

  Regards,

  R Hume

I just finished designing my

I just finished designing my new layout in xtrakcad4.  My simple words: Get it!!!!

Follow the tutorial and make the starter layout. 

Then make your own layout.

There's a bonus: You can actually set up trains on your new layout plan and run trains.  yes, you can OPERATE your layout before you EVER BUILD IT!!!!!

[the trainwrecks in the event of a cornfield are pretty interesting!!!]

xtrakcad 3 was hard to use.  4 has been a breeze.

The hardest part for me was needing a stanard 36" piece of shinohara that was 15D instead of the standard 30D.  I spent a good three days learning about the file format and then coded the necessary piece of track.  Trial an error, three days later, I got the piece of track into my library.

This program is open source, more components are being added by the month, it is only time before this system has everythign in it you can ever imagine.

See my layout plan for more evidence.  It's in Part Two of my Storage Unit Layout Plan discussion within my blog.

Good to hear it!

R Hume,

Nice to hear that the current version of 3PI has resolved your slowness and other issues. I like it too!

And yes, Benny, it is great to "test" run your consists on the virtual layout prior to building one, as it also gives you some insight into what possible bottle necks or operations issues you may have without having to build it first. BTW, 3PI has this "Virtual Consist" feature too!

Regards,

Ryan

XtrkCAD

I have used both 3rd PlanIt and XtrkCAD and I prefer XtrkCAD. I started using the Free RTS and went on to use XtrkCAD. I was intrigued by the 3d aspect of the  3rd PlanIt program, and I bought it about 3 years ago. I used it for about 6 months and was constantly frustrated by what I thought was a non-intuitive interface.

I do a lot of layout design including, but not limited to, hosting design contests. One day I offered to help a person who was designing a layout in XtrkCAD. After a short while, I remembered how easy XtrkCAD was to use. I switched back.

To be fair, after reading Ryan's post I decided to give 3rd Planit another try. When I bought 3rd PlanIt, I was promised an upgrade immediately as another version was due out any moment. Like many small operations, 18 months later it was still not out and I gave up. When I checked back on it to see if it was ready, it turns out that I was one month too late to request an upgrade and I did not feel like buying the program again to give them a second chance.

Toss me into the XTrkCad

Toss me into the XTrkCad group.  For me, I just want to get this design thing over with.  Been the hardest part to learn.  I don't want to spend three years coming up with a dern plan and learning a new language.  At some point I would like to just run some trains.  I am just about ready to hire out for a plan.....

Yes, I have been learning to use it.  VAST hours and still nothing close to a plan that works.  Maybe I'm just a tad burt out on it.... I'll go to the dentisit and feel better about CAD programs.....

I use 3rd Planit too

I've been using 3rd Planit for over 7 years and have used most of its features. My computer is a 1 GHZ P3, so it's a little taxed by the 3D mode, but I have a 50 layer plan for the Sudbury Division on it and it's only when I turn on all the layers at once that things get bogged down (and why would I do that, you can't make out anything with all 7 track levels on at once...) I find it extremely flexible, but I have had to use some workarounds to get it to connect tracks or turnouts correctly. But I'm still using version 7, and like others am not inclined to buy a newer version just so the bells and whistles play a slightly nicer tune. I'm interested to see if I can pick up a thing or two from the series as well.