Thanks!

Good start, very helpful!

But this solidifies my disdain for the loss of the previous paint lines. While there is a color match for, lets say, Railroad Tie Brown, the match is gloss instead of flat. Not so good for painting rail or ties unless you plan on adding a matte layer on top of it.

There are more matches

Point taken, and there are more matches available then what I have initially listed. It's best to match swatches of the actual paint to each other. I haven't done this yet. As more matches are discovered I'll do my best to update the list.

Chris

FLOQUIL Paint to Military Conversions

Chris,

I am a huge fan of FLOQUIL and although I believe us Dinosaurs will have to look for alternatives to FLOQUIL as their Corporate Big Daddy RUST-OLEUM has made it so I don't believe that we shouldn't be vocal enough to have TESTOR take a look at perhaps the most popular colors and roll those into the Model Master line.  No Whining...

But you have to understand that as a member of the PRRT&HS Paint Committee we have found common ground with many of the FLOQUIL paint colors matched to some of our own historical paint records and the loss of FLOQUIL will mean that those matches will not exist.

I appreciate you quickie color matches of FLOQUIL vs all other military colors as there are likely some colors that are close although I would take issues with some perhaps many of your choices, i.e., British Crimson and Oxide Red are way off the scale... Might I suggest you do as you suggested in your reply to JodyG and match two samples independently on pieces of clear acetate about 2"x 2" and then do your comparison in broad daylight and report back as I believe you will be busy for a while and you'll come back with far less color matches. I recommend clear acetate because you get a color film that is not disrupted by a background color. If you fill you need to see what the color shift would do to the color on say a black background simply lay the color chip on a piece of black paper. This is how we did our research within the PRRT&HS. 

Greg

I did my homework...

Just to reassure you that I didn't just throw darts at color swatches, and "guess" these colors. I cross referenced online various photos, bottoms of bottles, color swatches, spoons painted by other modelers, recommendations of other modelers, and other conversion charts, to give you my best educated pick. Like I said in the beginning, it may not be a "dead ringer" but it's to get you close. How much further you are interested in going from there, is up to you. If you care to share an alternate color you chose against the list, I'd certainly invite that.

I recall from algebra having to give "proof" for my answers. Well, here's the proof of why I picked 2009 MM British Crimson to match Oxide Red. From the original chart Testors themselves prepared for Revell, Testors, (the company that produces Floquil and is privy to their own formulas and such) matched British Crimson to Oxide Red. http://downloads.hobbico.com/misc/rmx/TES_Revell_Paint_Match_Guide.pdf

This could mean that these colors were either the same when Testors owned Floquil, or perhaps they are (very possible) not checking their own stock? Who knows, there have been so many incarnations of the Floquil paint colors that one can't assume that your historically accurate colors are still the same color; it appears Testors might have thought differently.

I can not commit to testing each of these colors. I leave that up to the community to work that out. There was a lot of work and time (almost 2 weeks, hardly quick) put into this, by myself already. I felt my efforts were best delivered now, with "close" matches, then multiply all our experiences, moving forward. I just don't have the bandwidth (or financing) to test through the 100 Floquil colors and the innumerable vintages, all by myself. I can commit to testing colors for projects that I have worked on, which are, the SP colors, the ATSF colors, Railbox, The CN colors were suggested by a CN fan on another forum. While this is preliminary, it's a good start. If you dispute a color, I invite you to suggest an alternate.

Don't wait for me to match colors for you. If you have experience with color matching, and it appears you do Greg, please pitch in; check out the various military and game paints from Model Masters, Vallejo, Humbrol, Tamiya, and Gunze Sangyo. Let me know what you discover and I'll be happy to update it.

This chart is intended to be close only. Even if you make a perfect match to a proto paint swatch, you will still need to lighten it to compensate for indoor light. Then, you will need to adjust it to match to the proto equipment you are modeling; paint changes it's color as it ages. Color all around is a moving target, not just the Floquil paint line. There is no such thing as a "one size fits them all" scenario for color.

It's up to us now to pick up the pieces of Floquil.

Chris Palomarez

Mega Resource for Cross Reference Model Paint

Without entering the debate regarding Floquil's business decision, I found this exceptional resource for many brands of model paints.

Although Vallejo is best known in the plastic market, you should not dismiss this resource. They study and sample paint under lab conditions.

It's a big link and you may have to copy and paste to get it all.

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/media/82669cd8d4b0306f4d4e0251b00c70ea.cms/cc073-rev05.pdf

Another paint company traveling at Warp is AK-Interactive. Superb paint and weathering products.

http://www.ak-interactive-usa.com/

Their FAQ 2 Revised book is a superb look at model weathering.

http://www.ak-interactive-usa.com/product-ak038book.html

Anyway, there you go.

Randy

What's the same as floquil and polly scale rust?

  I've probably used more of that over the years than any other color.Is it on that list somewhere and I'm just  missing it? ...DaveB

Nice, BUT

I know my two LHS's don't have all these in-stock...maybe only 2-3 brands.

So that leaves the modeler little choice but to either order and wait, and hope they get the right color for their model or weathering, or go the 'cheap acrylic' route.

Still, a nice reference.

I'd like to see a reference that says 'mix 90% A and 10% B and you'll get C (the specific goal color).  Would involve allot of testing, I know,but it could help those with limited LHS's and not willing to wait a week or two for an order.

For polly-s rust...

How about making the final master equivalents list

an article in MRH, preferably as a downloadable item?

Added a few more colors

Added a few more colors for the Milwaukee Road, Erie Lackawanna, SSI-ITEL, UPS, and a few extras. Updated to Version 1.1

Happy Thurs everyone!

Chris Palomarez

Micro-Mark

I sent a e-mail to Micro-Mark asking that they consider carrying Badger's Modelflex. The response I received was that they plan to come out with their own line of railroad paints. No date was given as to when it would happen.

woh!

Interesting events are about to happen!

Colors

While I still have some of the colors on hand, I'm going to make up my own color chart by painting two coats over a gray primer, my most often used. Painting to the edge of the palette it will give me a color against color comparison when I hold the painted item up against the chart. If you compare colors or mix colors, do it under the same lighting. If it matches there it will be the same match under any light. Make sure the color you are mixing is dry when comparing as colors will change as it dries. HINT: If you are looking for small mixing containers get the clear plastic communion cups used in church. They are perfect for the job. Don't get the colored ones. I get a bunch every month for free!. Otherwise go to a religious supply house. You will probably get a lifetime supply at a reasonable cost, if you want you can split the cost with others. 

Vallejo subtitute for Rail Brown

Guys I wanted to let you know that the number on the chart for rail brown (Vallejo 70795(216)) is actually a metallic green gold and is not a matt finish color. I recommend substituting Vallejo 70882(218) middle stone and if you find it too light add a drop or 2 of brown.

Found out the hard way

2slim

Ironhand, Sorry, but I

Ironhand,

Sorry, but I don't think that is necessarily the shop stopper that you think. May I suggest that you go to your local hardware sore, pick up some random paint sample cards... (I'd get a flat light colour) then give these cards a base colour (say grey) then paint them in a solid colour of whatever you favourite Floquil paint is (or favourite floquil mixture). Once dry, take your "new samples" to the hardware store, and get them to mix up a paint of that colour. 

Most places have a device that will mix up a paint based on a sample chip. Just buy a one-litre tin (is that a quart???) and you will have paint a) heaps cheaper than floquil!!!!  andb) near enough to a life time of that paint!  

-hold enamel paint, when thinned, will spray in an airbrush just like model paint.

My thoughts anyway, and also my strategy now that I can't get Floquil!

Cheers!

Hardware store paint does not equal Floquil paint

I've learned from personal experience and heard from many others that thinned house paint (or craft paint) does not work as well as Floquil (or any paint that is designed for fine applications).  The pigment in Floquil and other modelers paint is ground much finer and the vehicle is designed for much smoother application.  House paint is for painting houses - interior and exterior - and NOT designed for fine detail work.  Yes, you can thin house paint but I'm sure not painting my locomotives, rolling stock, or other items that need a fine finish with it.  By the way, I have seen some rolling stock painted with thinned house paint and most of the details were filled in and it looked crummy.

Paint Info Anyone?

Rick, the second reason you give is 100% correct however your first reason is a popular misbelief. Not your fault, seems a whole lot of people believe this. Good a time as any to set the record straight.

The pigment (only component of paint that requires grinding) in house paint is no more coarse than in any other paint. Pigment grind size is a function of opacity, color space, and tint strength and thus is nearly the same in all paints. The observed coarseness in house paints results primarily from the addition of extender pigments. Not because of their grind size but because of their rheology effects. Extender pigments are added to latex house paints for many reasons but primarily to lower manufacturing cost as the house paint business is by and large a low margin business. The presence of extender pigments, while important and necessary in house paint, are detrimental when house paint is used in a hobby type application as you have observed.

Thanks, Alan for setting the record straight.

I got the "micro-grind" from the manufacturer's literature and they are probably stretching the truth a bit!

Only a slight stretch

As the saying goes around our office.... "Marketing, not to be confused with reality!" 

One thing is certain - Floquil is not a pigment manufacturer. They likely buy pigment dispersions from pigment manufacturers wherein the pigment has already been ground to the optimum size for reasons stated in my first reply. Most paint companies are in the same boat. The paint manufacturers' role is to disperse the pigment into their paint formula. Herein lay the likely basis of the "micro-grind" claim. Dispersion is performed in mills. The type of mill and the time spent within it greatly affects the paint outcome. It is entirely plausible, and even expected, that Floquil (or whoever they subcontract to) would do an above average job of dispersing the pigment within the resin considering the end use of their product. The extended pigment dispersion process would give the end user the impression that the pigment is finer than a lesser dispersion process even though in actuality the pigment size is the same.

Easy enough to verify. They make gauges for just this purpose.

Imagine a 100 gal tank of paint sitting under this basket mill being blended into finished product. The heart and soul of any paint factory. Essentially a jumbo, highly precise version of a common kitchen appliance.

Request for a computer usable copy

Thank you for the efforts to provide a useful chart of useful substitutes for our old favorite Floquil.

I wonder if the chart could be converted to a file that we could save to our computers?

Just printing it doesn't work well as it is just on paper and not very strong.

I printed it to a PDF file (a Mac option) but the colors in the chart did not come thru.

Thanks for the efforts again.

Rob Morrison

Rumor only

This would be classified I think as a rumor only at this point. The railroad guy at my LHS recently told me that Horizon Hobby is planning to come out with a line of paints under their brand that replaces Pollyscale/Floquil. They supposedly will use the same size bottle and numbering so that a store would not have to buy a new sales rack for the paints.

I cannot confirm this anywhere online yet.

Rai Brown

Sorry you had trouble with that color. I dug around some more and found this MM color that seems fairly close, certainly closer then a metallic.

I also added the 16 colors Testors moved over to the Model Masters Acryl line and revised the chart to 1.2

704 – 4873 Reefer White
704 – 4874 Aged White
704 – 4875 Aged Concrete
704 – 4876 Concrete
704 – 4877 Earth
704 – 4878 Depot Buff
704 – 4879 Reefer Yellow
704 – 4880 Caboose Red
704 – 4881 Boxcar Red
704 – 4882 Oxide Red
704 – 4883 Signal Green
704 – 4884 Roof Brown
704 – 4885 Railroad Tie Brown
704 – 4886 Reefer Gray
704 – 4887 Grimy Black
704 – 4888 Engine Black

Hope that helps some

Chris Palomarez

What about CSX Tan?

I tried 3 hobby shops today that still have a respectable selection of Poly Scale colors left but all 3 were missing CSX tan. But the chart above has all the other CSX colors but not CSX Tan.

I tried doing a google search just now and came across this thread.

Change the name and it smells the same

It seems to me that weather we call it Extender pigments or pigments it makes no difference from a model building perspective. There is no way to remove one type of pigment from the other when it is in the paint. Secondly the delivery medium is still not the same between the two and results in coarseness.

I have used rattle can paint from various types in the store and some are useable for the applications I was using, buildings etc with out lots of fine detail. The real test seems to me to be the eye test, does the paint look good on the particular model, scale will also have a lot to do with it as well. In painting rolling stock models with fine detail the paint that does not have the coarse body or extender pigments etc seems to produce a finer finish than the other types. In large scales this may not be as critical as HO and smaller scales. Can it be wet sanded, does it level well, is it resistant to heavy build up etc.

I have often wondered how automotive paint would do although it is very expensive it seems very durable and capable of some fine finishes.

After re-reading that first paragraph it sounds rather harsh and it is not meant to be. I was trying to make the point that ultimately the chemical property that causes it does not matter as much as the fact that it does.

Rob in Texas